Wizards, here is how you can make the legacy community not be mad at you.

[pi4meterftw]

If we ignore things like the Cedar revolution, the rainbow coalition of revolutions in places like Georgia, Iran and Ukraine, the strikes that are crippling Greece right now and have crippled France, Thais pouring blood in the streets in protest, minorities in China rioting for autonomy while Hong Kong protest for democracy and workers protest in Beijing for protection, Muslim countries from Pakistan to Morroco racked by marches for (and against) Sharia law, calls for resignations and accusations of corruption that draw tens of thousands of protectors in Guatemala and Honduras and Mexico and Venezuela, mass calls for socialism in those Latin American countries that aren't already trending that way, mass calls against socialism in those countries that are, nationalist riots in India and anarchist demonstrations in Copenhagen, then sure, I might have difficulty of thinking of counter-examples to this claim off the top of my head from just the past few years.

I can tell you're American because you obviously have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world.

First of all, I didn't claim that other nations didn't have protesting. But I'll admit I heavily implied it, because I think it's true.

But how could I think it's true, even after you expounded upon so many examples of protests occurring in other nations? Because I wasn't talking about that kind. I do think that some of those examples are marks of stupidity of people who concern themselves with small details, but when I referred to the sort of "petty protesting" that I was talking about in America, I was talking about:

http://www.newuniversity.org/2010/02...-of-emergency/

As well as the fact that when I serve jury duty, it might possibly because someone's dog made too much noise? zzzzzzzzzzz

And protests about:

http://www.pleasantonweekly.com/news...ry.php?id=1801

As well as the fact that when I serve jury duty, it might possibly because someone's dog made too much noise? zzzzzzzzzzz

culminating in obviously stupid suggestions like firing the chancellor blah blah blah blah. zzzzzzzzzzzzz really? If you fire the chancellor then UCSD dies. It's a damn good thing I transferred if people like you really think that power should be put in hands as stupid as the people at these protests.

People in other countries protest too, which I think is wrong some of the time, but at least even if it's wrong they're not protesting about petty stuff. They're at least protesting because they perceive themselves to be in a rather disparate situation. (Something like "fuck, not being a democratic nation is the end of the world omg MAYBE MY VOICE MATTERS!") Like I think that's excessively optimistic and disobedient, but I can see where they're coming from. I'm not sure if I'm saying this in a way that you'll understand, but basically I don't think that people know what's good for them, except people who are "sufficiently smart" and that thus protesting is usually bad for everybody else, and bad for the protestors. But I'm not so callous as to make fun of people who at least protest for significant things.

To further expound upon your first group of points, I should note that indeed I am American. I satisfy the "requirement" of not knowing, or caring about history at all. (Including that of the rest of the world. But I'm a fair guy. I don't care for American history either.) I'll learn a "lesson from history" if someone puts it in front of me, because I don't think history is useless. I'm just not interested in it, so I won't seek it out for myself. Therefore, I don't make comments that would require me to have to know any history, besides knowing that college protests/other petty protesting are a phenomenon most pronounced in America.

This statement violates every known principle of logic and economics.



So why not play Vintage? Oh, right, it's not actually a good investment because the prices have stagnated because no one plays it anymore because the cost of entry is so prohibitive.

Well, fuck it man, why learn from history?



Because supporting Legacy, unlike maintaining the reserved list, actually helps Wizards make money. It means card have actual value in the long term- not just because market forces can continue to increase their price, which is always a spotty bet, but because they can actually be played, which is what most people who play Magic think of when they think of their cards maintaining value.

I think you understand that you took the first of these quotes out of context, so nothing further needs to be said there. Your second point is well-taken. I had not thought the economics of the situation far enough in advance. I'm not sure your 3rd point is true, but in any case people speak as if they have "a right" to a better game. They're talking about sending wizards emails like "STOP MAKING GAME SUX LOLOLOLOL." When you seem to be arguing that it might be that we could say "Dear wizards: You're not maximizing your profit... idiots."

But nobody is thinking about emailing that to Wizards, even though I'm willing to bet (immoral or not) that's the only thing Wizards cares about.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Well, keep in mind that you don't see the protests that don't matter from other nations in the news cycle. But you can certainly see their effects; heck, look at the near-blanket ban on genetically modified food in Europe. That exists because of people fretting about phantasms of frankenfood and fish genes in their tomatoes.

And I know I've e-mailed Wizards with the economic arguments. I'm sure some people are just spam-flaming.

[arebennian]

1.) Print good dual lands that both work with fetchlands and are very close to as good as the original dual lands.

You've been printing dual lands for standard for years. But simply put, if the duals can't be fetched out, they won't see play in legacy. Fetchlands offer so many useful functions that they will be played in any deck that splashes. So futures duals you print need to be fetchable by fetchlands

The Ravinca duals are near unplayable because giving up 3 life to fetch your dual lands is extremely painful. If it was only costed you two life total to fetch them, then there would be minimal draw back to playing them over the original duals. So if nothing else, please print ravinica duals that only cost you one life when they come into play, rather than two.

I'm sure there are several ways Wizards could print dual lands that can be fetched with fetchlands, that are extremely close in powerlevel to the originals.

The original duals can still be absolutely superior. But the disadvantage should be extremely minor. Lighting Bolting yourself like the Ravnica Duals make you do is not minor enough.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Idea&p=440089

So.
I claimed in the 'Revised Reprint Policy' thread that Wizards would make a viable Dual land in the next 5 years. There was a massive thread on Salvation about what the new M10 Duals would look like, but I don't really want to dig that up for their ideas.
So for now, after some quick thinking, here is what I came up with.


Not Quite Tundra
Land: Plains
t: Add W to your mana pool
t: Add U to your mana pool


What do you all think of this idea?
Anyone got anything better?

[Mr.C]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Idea&p=440089

So.
I claimed in the 'Revised Reprint Policy' thread that Wizards would make a viable Dual land in the next 5 years. There was a massive thread on Salvation about what the new M10 Duals would look like, but I don't really want to dig that up for their ideas.
So for now, after some quick thinking, here is what I came up with.


Not Quite Tundra
Land: Plains
t: Add W to your mana pool
t: Add U to your mana pool


What do you all think of this idea?
Anyone got anything better?

I'm more in favour of banning the original duals, and printing this:

Flaming Highland
Land - Lair Mountain Plains

I would laugh so, so hard if that happened. Plus, they'd be cheap if printed in Standard (see Zen Fetches).

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I don't get why people feel entitled to complaining. You get what wizards gives you, and if you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to play. But WOTC just does whatever makes them the most money, and maybe that's like immoral, but you can't do anything about it, so just be quiet and play.

The most successful companies tend to want to know what makes their consumers happy, in order to make them (the company) better able to make us (the consumer) happier, so we in turn will give them more money.

On the other hand, I can tell from your ideology that you're clearly a huge fan of Ayn Rand, so I'm not even sure why I'm trying to explain this to you.

[from Cairo]

I'm more in favour of banning the original duals, and printing this:

Flaming Highland
Land - Lair Mountain Plains

I would laugh so, so hard if that happened. Plus, they'd be cheap if printed in Standard (see Zen Fetches).

Why would they ban the originals, that would no doubt ruin their relationship with the majority of the legacy community. They could just print the functional reprints and have both be legal. The way current manabases are built it doesn't even seem like there are that many decks that would benefit from having access to Duals 5-8.

[Mr.C]

Why would they ban the originals, that would no doubt ruin their relationship with the majority of the legacy community. They could just print the functional reprints and have both be legal. The way current manabases are built it doesn't even seem like there are that many decks that would benefit from having access to Duals 5-8.

In case you didn't notice, they have already ruined their relationship with the majority of the legacy community.

[swats0n]

There is a shortage? Where? Any time I need cards I go online and there they are, I may have to pay a little more but I get what I want, mostly. And I am poor. I am at school and I make almost no money. It has taken me years to get the collection I have. I didn't just start playing legacy with a DTB.

See and the root of your argument, like many others with the same view, is selfishness: "I worked hard to get my cards, so it's not fair if Wizards changes their policy and makes cards easier for more people to get. Everyone has to work hard like me, otherwise it's not fair (to me)." It is a purely selfish viewpoint that operates on the idea of maximizing your own personal investment at the expense of anyone else who would like to play. I don't even know why people treat magic cards as some sort of stock. They are easily damaged, lost, stolen, subject to the whims of wizards - many valuable cards are not on the reserved list at all and could be reprinted any time - they are simply not a reliable monetary investment.

[Float4WeldSlaver]

I find it amusing that people equate "get rid of the reserved list" to "print infinite power and duals."

Mana Drain hasn't been reprinted. Just because something is not reserved does it mean they will reprint it.

[workingdude]

Taiga Woods
Forest Mountain
Taiga Uppercut comes into play tapped unless you pay two life. Sacrifice Taiga Woods: Add G or R to your mana pool.

Well first of all, this is strictly better than a dual. And second of all, lol, Taiga Woods.

The most successful companies tend to want to know what makes their consumers happy, in order to make them (the company) better able to make us (the consumer) happier, so we in turn will give them more money.

I think that WotC thinks that they dont make much money from paper Legacy players/tournaments. We generally don't buy as many packs as Standard-format and especially Limited-format players (I'm counting buying into a draft as buying 3 packs). Therefore, they want to kill Legacy, masking it behind the RL revision.

I bet the executives at Hasbro would cringe every time a Legacy player has said, "The fee for Legacy may be higher, but it's a one time expense. You don't have to continuously buy more and more cards every two years."

As long as the money they would get from amount of people who would switch from Legacy to Standard offsets the amount of money they get from the occasional weekly Legacy tournaments around the world, they are ahead. They know that magic is an addictive game and that many Legacy players would rather play Standard/Limited than not at all. As a bonus, there is no worry about losing Standard people to Legacy.

If this is so, many of the e-mails being sent about Legacy's eventual death due to this action will be, overall, useless. As MaRo, AaFo, and other game designers may agree and sympathize with you, business authorities would not.

Sometimes the desires of the individual (me, others) and the needs of the corporation do not align. Won't be much more of an explanation.

[Shawon]

Taiga Uppercut

Taiga Woods

Haha, good names. I LOL'd.

[Cabal_chan]

Well first of all, this is strictly better than a dual. And second of all, lol, Taiga Woods.



I think that WotC thinks that they dont make much money from paper Legacy players/tournaments. We generally don't buy as many packs as Standard-format and especially Limited-format players (I'm counting buying into a draft as buying 3 packs). Therefore, they want to kill Legacy, masking it behind the RL revision.

I bet the executives at Hasbro would cringe every time a Legacy player has said, "The fee for Legacy may be higher, but it's a one time expense. You don't have to continuously buy more and more cards every two years."

As long as the money they would get from amount of people who would switch from Legacy to Standard offsets the amount of money they get from the occasional weekly Legacy tournaments around the world, they are ahead. They know that magic is an addictive game and that many Legacy players would rather play Standard/Limited than not at all. As a bonus, there is no worry about losing Standard people to Legacy.

If this is so, many of the e-mails being sent about Legacy's eventual death due to this action will be, overall, useless. As MaRo, AaFo, and other game designers may agree and sympathize with you, business authorities would not.

AaFo said that the decision didn't have anything to do with Hasbro...so that would mean there's a disagreement inside WotC? I thought MaRo/AaFo were pretty high up in WotC, so they could apply pressure/override things?

[Peter_Rotten]

I think that WotC thinks that they dont make much money from paper Legacy players/tournaments. We generally don't buy as many packs as Standard-format and especially Limited-format players (I'm counting buying into a draft as buying 3 packs). Therefore, they want to kill Legacy, masking it behind the RL revision.

With record breaking GPs, why would they want to kill Legacy? It doesn't make any sense to get rid of a format that is extremely popular.

I bet the executives at Hasbro would cringe every time a Legacy player has said, "The fee for Legacy may be higher, but it's a one time expense. You don't have to continuously buy more and more cards every two years."

This is another popular misconception. I haven't played Legacy in a year and a half, have a sizable collection with most of the important cards (Goyf, FoW, Duals,etc.), and I can't build a single current top deck without spending some money. From cheap cards like Pridemages to money cards like Entomb, I'd be spending money to be a current good deck.

Between the unstopable, Flash-like presence of Reanimator, the broken brokeness of Blue Lands, and the callous and dismissive insult of this new revised policy, I'm surprised that the format is surviving at all.

[AngryTroll]

Between the unstopable, Flash-like presence of Reanimator, the broken brokeness of Blue Lands, and the callous and dismissive insult of this new revised policy, I'm surprised that the format is surviving at all.

The first two parts sound like sarcasm, but the revised policy makes you sound serious; I'm confused.

Reanimator is not Flash. Flash accounted for 3/8ths of the Columbus Top 8, and won the thing. Reanimator picked up a total of 1 Top 8 slot at Indianapolis last week. Between Madrid, Indianapolis, and Richmond, it has 4 Top 8s (out of 24 total), 2 Top 4s (out of 12), and 1 win.

The meta will adjust to Reanimator. There was no adjusting to Hulk Flash (especially in the days before Countertop was common).

[Forbiddian]

Actually, America is pretty fucking lazy when it comes to protests. We hardly protest anything.

I remember seeing some statistics about protesting/active citizenship and Canada and the UK ranked much higher than the US. We dropped the ball since 1970.

[workingdude]

With record breaking GPs, why would they want to kill Legacy? It doesn't make any sense to get rid of a format that is extremely popular.

I already said that Legacy players do not buy as many packs as Standard. An extremely popular format that may be taking away people from drafts/sealed/standard tourneys is not good for them.

This is another popular misconception. I haven't played Legacy in a year and a half, have a sizable collection with most of the important cards (Goyf, FoW, Duals,etc.), and I can't build a single current top deck without spending some money. From cheap cards like Pridemages to money cards like Entomb, I'd be spending money to be a current good deck.

But you will not being buying boosters to look for those pridemages, right?

AaFo said that the decision didn't have anything to do with Hasbro...so that would mean there's a disagreement inside WotC? I thought MaRo/AaFo were pretty high up in WotC, so they could apply pressure/override things?

This, I am unsure about. But I am willing to venture a guess that there are also WotC execs that care more about the bottom dollar than format development. Or if my theory that Legacy is detrimental to Hasbro cash-flow is correct, MaRo and AaFo might just be acting as responsible businessmen

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I really can't help but feel extremely sad and butt-hurt about this whole thing.

Also, I wish I had bought a lot more staple cards about a year ago, so if the ship goes down, I could at least pawn off some trinkets and make a few ducketts off the whole deal.

I guess there's always MWS. Until they succeed in finally castrating that also.

[loveisgreen]

Honestly, I think everyone is making way too big a deal out of this imaginary shortage of Duals. If you need Underground Seas, let me make a few suggestions:

Strikezoneonline- 36
Empiregamesonline.net- 59
CCGhouse.com- 9
Hotsaucegames.com- 6
White Lion Games- 7
Cape Fear Games- 7
Merlin's Games- 6
Ebay- Approx. 70 auctions, some as playsets

As for the price of duals, I traded a bunch of my winnings from standard events to online shops for credit (Baneslayer, pulses etc.) to buy the duals that I have now. It really isn't that difficult, it just takes some time.

[paK0]

I'd actually send something, but it will do nothing anyways. Wizards knows that there are many Legacy players. Wizards knows that we are upset, that is exactly why they made this thing. They do not view us a customers anymore, so sending any form of appeal would have the effect of the vegetarian union sending appeal to a butcher. They do not care, thats all there is to it, rather, they are happy, any complain how they kill Legacy actually reads like:

"You win"

for them.

[Arsenal]

As for the price of duals, I traded a bunch of my winnings from standard events to online shops for credit (Baneslayer, pulses etc.) to buy the duals that I have now. It really isn't that difficult, it just takes some time.

You're missing the whole point; prices may not be an issue now, but 4-5 years down the road? You're not going to be able to reasonably trade-in Standard chase rares for Legacy staples.