They also have forces and daze, and the fact that our guys are not technically big. they are big with landfall triggers, or instants being cast, but by themselves they are not very big. If anything I think the match swings a bit more in their favor depending on if its bant or a variant with more lands and no hierarchs.
Force is 2 cards for 1, and Daze puts them a land back. It doesn't matter that our guys are only big during the attack step, because they don't play burn spells. I think almost all Bant decks play Noble Hierarch, and if they're counting on him with their opener, they're gonna get burned.Originally Posted by Resist_Temptation
I still think it's close to even, I know they play some counters.
Thresh is going to be a tough match up too. Fire is going to be a 2 for 1 lots of times, and stifle will be a bitch with so many fetches. If you don't have a good established meta in your area, I would consider putting together a 4-way proxy deck so you have a decent variety of established decks/DTB on hand to test against.
i think this deck has potential. why not zektar shrine
It's a horrible topdeck, and is not as good as the creatures he is already using.
Emerge Unscathed could be a house in this deck. In doing a bit of testing with a similar deck, I've found the biggest weakness is that the creatures are easy to chump block or trade with. Fiend in particular is easy to deal with because his toughness always stays at 2. Emerge Unscathed not only pumps him, in many cases it will let him slip past all their blockers.
Also, I know it makes it less consistent, but adding Green could give you some serious power. You get access to crop rotation which pumps all your guys (fetch -> land -> crop rot -> fetch -> land = huuuge cats/bugs), and you get access to better trample effects like
Berserk
Colossal Might
Overrun
Overrun is probably too much of a green commitment, but all the others help to push damage through so you don't get blocked by tokens all day.
Have you considered Emerge Unscathed?
It is pretty insane in my testing combined with steppe lynx or kiln fiend.
I really like it, hadn't seen it until now. Very interesting, makes things like Berserk infinitely more viable. Extremely rough decklist to follow.
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Plated Geopede
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Emerge Unscathed
3 Collosal Might
3 Reckless Charge
3 Berserk
20 Lands
Could something like this work? How do we fit in Crop Rotation?
Maybe drop 1 Colossal Might and the Reckless Charges, or drop Colossal Might completely and 1 Reckless Charge since you're already running Berserk. Crop Rot also helps to make your manabase a bit more resilient, as you can respond to a wasteland with it to just grab a replacement.
I'd look back at firemind's version with crop rotation. Maybe try something like this:
4 x Nactyl
4 x lynx
4 x geopede
4 x kiln fiend
4 x bolt
4 x chain lightning
3 x searing blaze
3 x rift bolt
3 x crop rotation
3 x reckless charge
2 x fireblast
4 x wooded foothills
4 x arid mesa
4 x bloodstaind mire
3 x wasteland
3 x plateau
2 x tiaga
1 x mountain
1 x smoldering spires (or teetering peaks)
has there been any recent results with this deck?
Does anyone still playing this?
I have a lot of fun with the following list in MWS:
CRAPFALL
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
2 Mountain
4 Steppe Lynx
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Plated Geopede
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Searing Blaze
2 Fireblast
3 Reckless Charge
3 Crop Rotation
4 Manamorphose
SIDE
3 Ancient Grudge - Chalice, equips, Vial
2 Krosan Grip - Countertop, Survival
2 Vexing Shusher - Countertop, Chalice
2 Gaddock Teeg - Elspeth, Jace, Natural Order, Combo
3 Price of Progress - Lands, greedy manabases (like UWbg Landstill),
3 Gravehate slots
Goblin Guide becomes Grim Lavamancer and it was great improvement. The ability to shoot down 2-3 small dudes or burn 1 tarmo for 1 card is great. Also the situation Guide+Charge makes me a little sad 'cause Haste is what makes Charge such a good card and Guide already has haste. But now it's fine - Charge is always used on full power and Lavamancer is generally much better card than Guide.
The second noticable change is the lack of Wasteland. Barbarian Ring took the place and now Crop Rotation can do damage. Sometimes Trеshold conflicts with Lavamancer, but that situation is rare because of 12 fetches Manamorphose+Crop Rotation.
I'm not sure about the second Ring. Maybe it should be another card, most likely a burn spell or single Path to Exile, or even Emerge Unscathed. I playerd 21 lands before and it was perfect (Manamorphose helps getting enough mana and landfall triggers), now 22 seems to be a little bit too much.
The only real issue I still have is sideboard.
The problem is that it should contain instant/sorceries to feed Kiln Fiend or cards that replace it in certain MU (For example, I side -2 Fiend, +2 Teeg versus Landstilll). And there's no GY hate that fits. Well, actually, there is Krosan Reclamation, but 2 mana is often too slow vs Dredge or Reanimator.
Last edited by eq.firemind; 07-21-2010 at 06:28 AM.
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way.
i think im going to build this irl. why not lightning helix?
my current deck
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Goblin Guide
4 Plated Geopede
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
2 Fireblast
3 Searing Blaze
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Plateau
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Mountain
2 Plains
Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Jotun Grunt
4 Seal of Cleansing
3 Path to Exile
Ethersworn Canonist/Pyrostatic Pillar in SB ? Path over Swords ? Duergar Hedge Mage over Seal Of Clensing ?
Also, Jotun Grunt isn't a sideboard card, and 4 is too much even if you play against Zoo or dredge.. -4 Grunt SB, -2 Helix MD, + 2 Jotun Grunt MD.
Also, just rebuild your sideboard, i'd play this :
5 Relic / Crypt / Macabre / Trap
3 Pyroblast / Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyrostatic Pillar / Ethersworn Canonist
3 Awesome Stuff ( Price Of Progress, Duergar Hedge Mage.. ) yo, depend about metagame.
Last edited by Pich; 08-27-2010 at 12:46 AM. Reason: Forgot a detail.
Looks like a nice fast Sligh list you made troopa.
Good to see someone else who likes Reckless charge as much as i do, the interaction with landfall seems really nice.
To bad i don't have all them fetches to make it work :P
The only change i would make is remove the Helixes for something faster like Shard Volley or Reckless Abandon or maybe a combination of them. You have enough critters to use abandon and the curve to support Shard volley
ignore Resist_Temptation mate, the guy gave some useless comments just to say something and gets pissed of because you don't agree with him. the tone of your posts is perfect so he's just derailing the thread
I think I would use Fling over Reckless Abandon, even at 1 more mana. As an instant, it would allow you to use it on a creature that was already going to be removed/destroyed by your opponent, and would also potentially work very well with Berserk if you were playing it. You should be able to get potentially a lot more than 4 damage (Reckless Abandon) using Fling.
Last edited by tprisbe; 08-30-2010 at 02:53 AM. Reason: Grammar
This is the Boros deck I have together and I've been really happy with its performance against a wide variety of decks. Especially stomps on creature based decks and slow aggro control, unless you face an early countertop . Combo obviously isn't fun, but the plan is to board into a faster goldfish and pray :)
Creatures - 14
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Kiln Fiend
3 Keldon Maruaders
3 Jotun Grunt
Instant - 22
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Volcanic Fallout
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path To Exile
3 Fireblast
3 Emerge unscathed
Sorcery- 3
3 Rift Bolt
Lands- 21
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Plateau
8 Mountain
1 Plains
Sideboard: 15
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Chain Lightning
4 Seal of Cleansing
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Rift Bolt
1 Fireblast
have you tried splashing black for dark confident?
I've had some early success with this list. My basic strategy in the deck building was to have the early game huge beats (swinging for 16 on turn 3) but also be able to stabilize and play the long game without running completely out of steam like burn.
4x Steppe Lynx
3x Kiln Fiend
4x Plated Geopede
4x Figure of Destiny
3x Mountain
1x Plains
4x Arid Mesa
4x Plateau
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Koth of the Hammer
2x Fireblast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
4x Chain Lightning
3x Rift Bolt
Sideboard (My meta has a lot of blue and a couple Landstill matchups so this is meant more for that)
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Meekstone
2x Vexing Shusher
2x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Disenchant
3x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
FoD is an early game thread and if you land Koth he can turn him into an 8/8. I prefer FoD to Kargan Dragonlord for now.
My original list had a little more white and ran Flagstones/Ghost Quarter/Armageddon but so far I really like Koth.
A little bit about my testing so far:
Against Merfolk:
- Pretty typical, burn their lords (making Kiln fiend bigger) and drop fetchlands. I swung pretty consistently for 10-16 by turn 3 but Daze can be pretty rough since this deck likes to tap out to pump out early damage. If my opponent was playing Stifle this match would have been much harder.
Against Landstill:
- This match up wants the Armageddons more than Koth... Facing off against an opponent that can stabilize at 2 life and drop Iso Scepter/Counterspell or Scepter/Swords can result in some frustrating matches. In the board I would have at least a couple Shushers, REBs and maybe Price of Progress, all of which help this matchup. Even Disenchant I feel is a reasonable sideboard slot to help against Landstill/CounterTop/Vial/Jitte/etc.
If anyone is interested in more detailed reports and more lists I play against I'll share.
why no goblin guide
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