TY bigbopper and redarmy for the constructive criticism. i have altered my list a bit.
the reason i dont run ports is because i dont own any! im actually borrowing the black duals so i need to buy those first.
//lands [21]
4 wasteland
4 arid mesa
4 scalding tarn
2 taiga
2 badlands
5 mountain
//core [26]
//others[13]
4 gempalm incinerator
3 warren weirding
2 warren instigator
2 mogg war marshal
1 wort, boggart auntie
1 goblin sharpshooter
//sideboard
4 leyline of the void
3 krosan grip
3 perish
2 earwig squad
1 goblin tinkerer
1 tin-street hooligan
i played this list at a nearby legacy tourny on tuesday and placed 3rd out of 12 after 4 rounds of swiss
round 1: enchantress 2-0
game 1 i start swinging for damage, lackey hits. drop warchief, play piledriver and get lethal damage on the board. he pops his sterling grove to get phyrexian unlife instead of moat. i win that one easily
game 2 i stick a turn 1 lackey into turn 2 siege-gang and a ringleader comes out too. i get him down to 10 life and he drops a moat with sterling grove in play. i have only 1 krosan grip in my hand. on my turn i use my 4 mana to fling 2 goblin tokens at him taking him down to 6. on his turn he draws quite a few cards. on my turn i fling 2 more at him reducing him to 2. on his turn he drops solitary confinement. at this point i am pretty discouraged but continue to play it out. on his turn before his draw he pops his sterling grove to get humility and plays it. he opts not to discard and loses his solitary confinement. at the end of the turn he has moat and humility in play with only 2 life and no creatures. i krosan grip his moat and on my turn swing with 5 1/1 goblins for the win.
round 2: u/w stoneblade control
game 1 i managed to stick a lackey and drop a warchief which gets StoP'd. i eventually stick a piledriver and ringleader with vial. my piledriver i casted got countered. he lands a jitte that i cant deal with but has no creatures. i wasteland his tundra and he draws no colored land and ends up with 2 mutavault and only 1 island in play. i get him to about 5 life before he scoops.
game 2 i keep a hand with a warren weirding and 2 gempalms a lackey and ringleader. lackey eats force of will turn 1. he didnt play any creatures. i topdeck a vial and it sticks. 4 turns later i vial in ringleader, he hasnt played any creatures at this point. the ringleader hits gold, lackey, siege gang, ringleader, piledriver. by this time i already had a hand full of cards including 2 warren weirding and 3 gempalm incinerator and i am ready to murder any creature that hits the board. the next turn i swing and drop a matron fetching earwig squad. i played earwig for its prowl cost and i remove his 2 jace's and 1 umezawa's jitte i probably should have left jace alone and went with my first instinct and removed his 2 wrath of god's. but he only had 3 mana and i had like 7 lands at this point so i wastelanded his mutavault to make sure he cannot cast wrath of god. i say go and he looks at his hand says why am i even playing. and scoops.
round 3: ANT 0-2
game 1: i play mountain -> vial, go. he drops 3 dark rituals and goes off. hits me with tendrils for 20. this was just turn 1 lol.
game 2: i board in 4 LotV and aggressively mulligan down to 5 and didnt see a single 1. in fear of not being able to kill him with only 4 cards i keep my hand. and i lose on his 3rd turn. i dont think he needed to graveyard flashback anyways.
round 4: Stifle-dreadnaught deck 2-0
game 1: top 3 prize money is on the line. i stick a lackey into warren instigator. she drops a mox diamond and lotus petal i think. and casts trinket mage and fetches phyrexian dreadnaught and plays it with stifle next turn. on my turn i incinerator the mage and swing for 3. i drop a ringleader, matron, and warchief. i search for piledriver. on her turn i only had 9 power in goblins. she swings with the dreadnought i take it. i drop piledriver and its enough to kill her from 15.
game 2: i board in krosan grip, goblin tinkerer, and TSH. in my opening hand i have a vial, ringleader, hooligan, warchief, and only 1 land though. but i keep anyways. she drops an island. my turn i drop taiga into vial. her turn she wastes my taiga... didnt see that coming. she never does some cantrips and such. i draw into a fetch land and a mountain, play the mountain and wait on the fetch so i can hooligan in case dreadnought appears. eventually vial gets up to 4 and ringleader comes into play. once again i strike gold. keep vial at 4 next turn, ringleader again and i strike 4 more goblins again. i stick a lackey and start dropping my hand. keeping tin street hooligan and the fetch land in my hand. she drops a pithing needle on my vial which i opt not to scrap with TSH. she never gets dreadnought and i finish her off.
even though i went 2-0 3 times, and 0-2 once i end up 3rd on tiebreakers. got my entrance money back at least. lol not really store credit only so 1 foil elvish archdruid and 1 non foil it is! the ANT deck i lost too went 4-0 in match records.
Wow, nothing to play either Perish or Pyrokinesis against. I suppose you would have been better off with your previous sideboard for these particular MUs...
Also, you didn't run into any resource denial decks, so your Rbg slpash wasn't tested too heavily. I'm starting to feel that the green splash is best against control heavy decks, black splash has Cabal Therapy for combo, but when you start running into many Wastelands and aggro decks, you are punished for playing non-basics. Those are the MUs where Perish is usually the most important, since you are playing from behind for the most part and many decks can answer a Vial in play, curtailing your development. I admit that Perish is becoming very narrow due to Delver and Snapcaster and the fact that people don't want to play decks that crumble to Perish, but many of the top decks right now don't like seeing Perish.
I recently purchased my Badlands, but suddenly realized that I preferred playing Mono Red for the time being, but your report is a glowing endorsement for Rbg. DEFINITELY get the Rishadan Ports now if you can, they are down quite a bit from a couple months ago (but who knows if FTV:Lands or something will come out with bendy RPorts).
I really like the suggestion of Retribution of the Meek in a white splash. It might actually be better than Perish in the general meta, and if I were a white splashing player I would not go without two or three of those in the board. I wonder if anyone has tested Virtue's Ruin against Maverick, but I'm sure someone would know whether or not they should be boarding for white decks, and Virtue's Ruin might not be as good as Anarchy. Either way, Goblins has quite a few board sweepers to bring in against aggro with overlap into other match-ups, and Pyrokinesis is really in a class of it's own with many different uses.
Remember, it's only a game, a game dominated by Goblins.
I don't know if you just didn't mention it, but from your report it doesn't sound like you brought in Ear-wig Squad against ANT. If you didn't what matches would you bring it in?
My other question is how well has the Tin-street Hooligan been working for you. Even though you are running green it seems like Tuk Tuk might be better, since he still triggers off Lackey, Instigator, Warchief, and Vial, while not having to fetch into a non-basic.
@Red Army: I've done very very limited testing with Virtue's Ruin, but I've always wanted it to be either Perish or Anarchy. If you're taking out white creatures your generally better off paying the extra mana to have the ability to also hit Moats, Solitary Confinement, Dueling Grounds, etc. For Maverick the only real problem cards that Ruin seems to hit are Mom and KotR, while Perish hits KotR, Tarmogoyf and most of the rest of their deck. Moms only a real problem when they can stick another threat while Perish hits actual threats, while also including their mana accelerants in the collateral damage.
How come I don't see anything on goblin recruiter? Wouldn't he be very good followed by goblin ringleader?
Also, wouldn't goblin king be good as a 1 of where he can be fetched against decks that play mountains?
We don't see Goblin Recruiter because it is banned. Being able to essentially stack your entire deck is kind of ridiculous, even for legacy.Originally Posted by halfgodz
Because Goblin Recruiter is banned in legacy. Also not that many decks play mountains and even those that do, he's not worth the 1 slot when we have chieftain who is stronger in more MUs than King. I suppose if you really wanted to you could play him, but imho he's not worth the slot.
Also, why is goblin grenade a bad choice for removal or damage with as many goblins that we run? Is it solely because it's not an instant? 5 damage kills many more creature threats than 3 with a lightning bolt. And, if that's the case, why not run price of progress? Which decks in the current meta are mono-color? Almost all of them run mostly non-basics.
Opening yet another question as to why we don't run blood moon and forget at least half of the mana denial cards we now use replacing 2x Rishadan Port and replacing the other 2x Ports with business cards? So what if we turn our wastelands to mountains if we are sticking to mono-red builds.
Well these cards you are talking about are not goblins themselves. And since our card-advantage engine relies mostly on Ringleaders it is essential for the deck to run as many goblins as possible. That said, in quite a few goblin sideboards you'll find Blood Moons. The manadenial cards already played main in goblin decks are lands. Which you'll have to run anyways (so don't take up any precious goblins slots for Ringleader purposes).
While Goblin Grenade has its uses, it can put you in difficult situations. Do you sacrifice your Warchief to deal with that Goyf? Or what about situations where you have no goblins and they are beating you down with a lone Vendillion Clique?
Price of Progress, this is just not the deck for it. Often an extra goblin will just deal more damage than a Price of Progress would. Whereas the goblin also increases the effectiveness of our Piledrivers/Siege Gang Commanders/Ringleaders/Lackeys and most importantly Incinerators.
The other problem with Goblin Grenade is that sacrificing a goblin is part of the cost, meaning you have to do it even if they counter the Grenade. If they print a Tribal Goblin Grenade it would be a different story.
Charbelcher's the main reason they banned recruiter.
I don't understand how Merfolk is in DTB and Goblins isn't, that's my question lol. Especially now that MM is banned
May your suffering equal your weakness--Ihsan's Shade
It's because Merfolk can deal with decks that pack SFM packages, while Goblins can't.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
What? Charbelcher was used in 'Seething Gobvantage' in Extended years ago, but Recruiter was banned there mostly because of Food Chain. Goblin Recruiter was legal in T1.5, but with the restructuring of the format, Recruiter left along with Mana Drain and Bazaar of Baghdad, Mishra's Workshop, and other similarly broke cards. I doubt 'Belcher would be good in a Legacy Goblins build, nor Recruiter good in 'Belcher the deck.
Merfolk also plays against combo better than most other decks I can think of. As long as there is combo, Merfolk has a leg up on those match-ups where Vial Goblins does not. I would also say that the two deck suffer equally from an unanswered SFM, and the presence of SFM has kind of obsoleted Merfolk in the competitive environment.
As long as the meta remains control and combo, Merfolk should be considered a DTB. In a aggro and control meta, Goblins could have an edge. This is assuming that aggro/control is present in all metas, because aggro/control is almost always the best archetype to play competitively (but all DTB fall victim to their notoriety).
Remember, it's only a game, a game dominated by Goblins.
It almost seemed like right after Survival got banned, with the whole Vengevine aggro, that goblins dropped out... did that have anything to do with it?
May your suffering equal your weakness--Ihsan's Shade
i agree sfm is hard to deal with but its not the end of the game when one drops
i do think the new sfm meta suggests we keep a little more control in the deck for instance im running 4 gempalm and 2 jittes both of which are cards that can be used for aggro or control so far im very happy with this that beign said my meta doesnt have too many competative sfm decks so i dont see it as much as you would at a scg or a grand prix or any high level high population legacy tourney but i do feel that so far i am getting that control card when i really need it to deal with the card thats going to beat me
so far i havent run against maverick though and to me it looks like the biggest mismatch for me has anyone found a way to even the odds with a mono red deck?
in the immortal words of Jaya Ballard: "Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
The black splash helps a ton against Maverick, Perish really wrecks them. For mono red I suppose you could try Anarchy. Most of my games against them have generally been won by getting in for as much damage as possible right away, then going over the head with Sharpshooter/Siege-gang once they get the board locked up. More than anything the Mother of Runes are a pain in the ass in the match up.
thanks very much. i just know i wont be able to afford the dual lands for a while to play black as i still havent bought my wastelands hehe.
also is anyone seeing any issues with any enchantments being run? besides counterbalance i dont see any issues with enchantments in my meta and really countertop just doesnt cause me any problems so with the idea of moving on to bigger metas i was wonderign if there are any decks runnign enchantments that cause goblins an issues?
Enchantments I hate seeing:moat, elephant grass, solitary confinement, ghostly prison, propaganda, Chill, Pernicious Deed, and Absolute Law off the top of my head.
While Perish is a decent answer to Maverick, it requires you to splash a color. Today's metagame is very hostile to fetch and non basics with Canadian Thresh and Team America being among the most common decks to face. Lightning Bolt, Warren Instigator and Relic for the Knights really help a lot against Maverick.
Team R&D
not only that but magus of the moon is so disruptive and i find myself siding it in in about 75% of my match ups because ive found it really shuts down a lot of decks as my opponents have usually used any creature control/counters on lackey/piledriver/warchief and that would shut down my own black sources so as of right now my plan is to stay mono red
though it does leave me open to the random enchantment in that random deck that probably doesnt come close to winning btu manages to shut me down....grrr
Team America cannot answer Blood Moon under Blood Moon, but they can Dismember Magus of the Moon. RUG decks laugh at Magus of the Moon, while Blood Moon shuts down two thirds of the deck. Blood Moon also shuts down Groves/Fires combo, but Magus of the Moon dies to Punishing Fires. The stability provided by Blood Moon is leagues better than the body of Magus of the Moon.
@ Mantis - I still appreciate your advocacy of main-deck Relics. I was even able to make them kind of useful against Zoo from time to time, always boarding them out though. I expect that match-up of mine to be turning into something Maverick-ish sometime in the future, so in testing I've determined that this is my ideal configuration to beat Maverick, Tempo Thresh, Reanimator, and Dredge. < Team America as well, but non of these matches are better than 50/50 against an equally knowledgeable opponent.
15 Mountiain
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
my personal bastardization of the core (forever sweet 16)
4 Ęther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Piledriver
2 Mogg War Marshal
4 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Warchief
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Relic of Progenitus
Board
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Blood Moon
2 Anarchy
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Tormod's Crypt
The only problem here is that I kind of want to keep Relics and Bolts post-board, so bringing in TS, BM, and Anarchy could be somewhat risky. I guess I could take out Relics post board anyways and trust in more secure options. Having six grave-hate post board against Dredge/Reanimator without over dedicating the sideboard is just sick.
Remember, it's only a game, a game dominated by Goblins.
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