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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #2561
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    Edit:
    Pithing Needle is not worth against Mav. It has the same reasoning that Surgical. It doesn't do anything. You might be able to blow them out once or twice, but in the majority of times you'll curse yourself, while they have some guys out, Needle will have plenty of targets, but they'll be able to kick your ass regardless of what you name.
    Relic, on the other hand, it's surprisingly good. It makes Knight easily killable, it's a 1 drop, and it Cantrips. Cantripping is the most important part here, since it is hugely important. I suggest you try bringing them in instead of Needle to see how they play out.
    Why not??

    What do you do when he has 2 mother of runes in game??

    U can name:

    Elspeth,
    Stoneforge,
    Stupid Ooze,
    Reliquary,
    Stupid Jitte... and all other equipment.
    And...
    Maze of ith.

    Naming this cards, u can kill all Maverick's monster easily.
    "Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you."

  2. #2562
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Sharingan View Post
    What do you do when he has 2 mother of runes in game??
    Cast Anarchy and win from there...

  3. #2563
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    Cast Anarchy and win from there...
    Will u cast anarchy when he cast Sneak Atack?? Pernicius Deed?? Mishra's Factory or Sensei's Divining Top??

    So...

    Against Nic Fit, i trade my Piro + 1 goblin and a red card to kill a Sun titan, and name his Recurring Nightmare, to stops his combo with Kitchen Flinks.

    After 3 turns i won that game.

    Pithing Needle gives u Tempo. U can add more counters in ur vial and try a one-turn-kill.
    "Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you."

  4. #2564
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Sharingan View Post
    What do you do when he has 2 mother of runes in game??
    Play a whole bunch of goblins, Knesis 2x Mom and a 2/2 guy, respond their 2nd mom with Gempalm/Sharpshooter/Tarfire/Fanatic, or kill them once you made him tap 2 guys, and killed at least 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Sharingan View Post
    Will u cast anarchy when he cast Sneak Atack?? Pernicius Deed?? Mishra's Factory or Sensei's Divining Top??
    I don't see Maverick playing those cards, and the discussion was about how to side against that deck.
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  5. #2565
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Sharingan View Post
    What do you do when he has 2 mother of runes in game??
    Play a whole bunch of goblins, Knesis 2x Mom and a 2/2 guy, respond their 2nd mom with Gempalm/Sharpshooter/Tarfire/Fanatic, or kill them once you made him tap 2 guys, and killed at least 1.
    Ooohh... Gratz!!

    I prefer name on needle and kill both of them, than make that spectacular move.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Sharingan View Post
    Will u cast anarchy when he cast Sneak Atack?? Pernicius Deed?? Mishra's Factory or Sensei's Divining Top??
    I don't see Maverick playing those cards...
    I was discuting abouth Pithing Needle on Gobbo's Sb. If u pay attention, u should see.
    "Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you."

  6. #2566

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    hey with the printing of cavern of souls i wanted to try a new approach. i wanted to build a goblin deck that was more late game / combo oriented. i decided to cut wasteland because developing the mana base in this deck was more important than denying my opponent.

    4 aether vial
    4 goblin lackey
    4 mogg war marshal
    4 goblin piledriver
    4 goblin warchief
    4 goblin chieftain
    4 goblin matron
    4 goblin ringleader
    2 siege-gang commander
    4 gempalm incinerator

    4 cavern of souls
    18 mountains

    my last build had 11 removal spells and was alot more tempo like. this build i've only playtested against rug but i won every game i didnt keep a 2 lander or worse.

    in this metagame i think the deck are too attuned to beating turn 1 lackey. while i still believe its one of the best removal spells (trading with force or swords or mongoose) i decided to build this deck to kill in 1 combo attack rather than try to explode off of lackey. when i found myself playing lots of cards to help lackey connect i would have nothing in hand to bomb into play.

  7. #2567
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by dagoblinguy View Post
    hey with the printing of cavern of souls i wanted to try a new approach. i wanted to build a goblin deck that was more late game / combo oriented. i decided to cut wasteland because developing the mana base in this deck was more important than denying my opponent.

    4 aether vial
    4 goblin lackey
    4 mogg war marshal
    4 goblin piledriver
    4 goblin warchief
    4 goblin chieftain
    4 goblin matron
    4 goblin ringleader
    2 siege-gang commander
    4 gempalm incinerator

    4 cavern of souls
    18 mountains

    my last build had 11 removal spells and was alot more tempo like. this build i've only playtested against rug but i won every game i didnt keep a 2 lander or worse.

    in this metagame i think the deck are too attuned to beating turn 1 lackey. while i still believe its one of the best removal spells (trading with force or swords or mongoose) i decided to build this deck to kill in 1 combo attack rather than try to explode off of lackey. when i found myself playing lots of cards to help lackey connect i would have nothing in hand to bomb into play.
    I think that trying to explode off of Lackey has always been the wrong way to play this deck, and I don't think anyone here is really advocating going all-in on our favorite little 1/1. Without countermagic or protection of our own, being all-in on Lackey connecting is a recipe for an early game loss.

    I look at Lackey as the first of many "must answer" threats for my opponent to deal with. If he can answer the Lackey, that's fine. If not, then I gain a sizable advantage when it connects. The thing to remember here is that by burning removal/counter magic/early blockers on your Lackey, your other goblins are now free to do what they do best.

    As for your list, I think you're seriously lacking in removal. The metagame is very creature heavy at the moment, and without a reliable way to clear larger creatures out of your path your opponent will just block your Piledriver, take a couple damage from your random X/1s, and land some other threat the following turn. What do you plan to do against a turn 3 Batterskull? This is a very real possibility since you don't have any way to deal with Stoneforge Mystic or the skull itself.

    Lastly, cutting Wasteland is probably a mistake. It has been my experience that mana bases in general are becoming more and more greedy, and a well timed Wasteland will absolutely win you games regardless of the number of goblins you cast. Further, mana denial is one of the only ways this deck can reliably interact with combo strategies, which are historically our worst match ups. You absolutely need to be able to slow them down to your pace.

    If you make no changes to the list, 18 red sources should be plenty to reliably cast Chieftain/Warchief on turn 3 - remember, Cavern of Souls is just a fancy mountain that can be targeted by Wasteland.

  8. #2568

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    well against combo they always fetch out basics anyways so i feel like wasteland is useless against them. and if they do need a dual they fetch it on the turn they go off. also my old list cut piledriver and without the turn 3 kills you dont put enough pressure on to beat combo anyways. also against rug i beast 2 tarmogoyfs and delver on board by simply swinging with 1 piledriver and incinerating 1 goyf (the only creature i removed that game) and swinging with 10 2/2 that got through for lethal. knight is huge but i dont think i care about him too much. he can trade with piledriver or block just 1 creature. if i swing with enough creatrures his 4-5 blockers wont even matter because lethal should be rolling in.

  9. #2569
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by dagoblinguy View Post
    well against combo they always fetch out basics anyways so i feel like wasteland is useless against them. and if they do need a dual they fetch it on the turn they go off.
    Well.. in that regard you have to specify what you mean by "combo". There are combo-decks that don't even run basiclands (TES) and others that have only basics (Spring Tide).
    Wasteland can be useful even if they have fecthlands: You can use your wasteland on their fetchland in response to a brainstorm/ponder. Storm-combo decks like to have lands in play and they commonly use this move (brainstorm + shuffle to get rid of 2 less useful cards entirely). So with Wasteland@fetchland in resp on brainstorm you can at least disrupt their setup which may buy you a turn. And seen differently: have you ever wished a Wasteland were a Mountain while playing vs. StormCombo? I wouldn't be so fast to judge Wasteland "useless".

    -------------------
    @MagicSharingan: I can see your point about Pithing Needle - however its qualities against Maverick depend on your decklist. I've also tried Needle out in this MU but even if I have them in my sideboard I have rarelly sided them in. The point is that (at least the way I design my deck) Pithing Needle is often the 61st, 62nd and 63rd useful card of my 75. WHich means: They are cool but other cards are cooler (depending on my board I sometimes find myself boaring only 1 card in/out vs. Maverick).
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  10. #2570

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    i dont see anyone playing 4 color tes anymore (with white) it seems the new storm combo is blue/black/red and red only for past in flames which runs plenty of basics. wasteland is good against hive mind but i wouldnt consider it a good portion of current starcity metagames. again the deck list is tuned to grind out games against rug tempo, maverick, and blue/black/white control lists since those are the most dominant in the format.

  11. #2571
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by dagoblinguy View Post
    without the turn 3 kills.
    I agree with you post, but just want to say that the Instigator build does have T3 Kills, it's just much more rare. (T1 Lackey. T2 Instigator + Kiki-Jiki, T3 Chieftain it's 22 dmg for example)
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  12. #2572
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    I agree with you post, but just want to say that the Instigator build does have T3 Kills, it's just much more rare. (T1 Lackey. T2 Instigator + Kiki-Jiki, T3 Chieftain it's 22 dmg for example)
    How is that 22 damage? Most I'm getting is 15
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  13. #2573
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfstorm View Post
    How is that 22 damage? Most I'm getting is 15
    T2 you deal 1 dmg, drop kiki, play Instigator.
    End of your opponent turn, copy Instigator.
    Your turn, play and copy Chieftain.
    That leaves you with a 3/3 Lackey 2x 3/3 Chieftains (1 real, 1 copy), 3x 3/3 Instigator (1 real, 1 copy) (6 dmg each).
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  14. #2574
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    T2 you deal 1 dmg, drop kiki, play Instigator.
    End of your opponent turn, copy Instigator.
    Your turn, play and copy Chieftain.
    That leaves you with a 3/3 Lackey 2x 3/3 Chieftains (1 real, 1 copy), 3x 3/3 Instigator (1 real, 1 copy) (6 dmg each).
    Yea my bad for some reason I got instigator confused with stingscourger><
    Team FireBrothers

  15. #2575

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    T1: Play Lackey,
    T2: Attack with Lackey (1), bring in Kiki, play Instigator
    End of your opponents turn: Copy Instigator
    T3: Play Chieftain, copy Chieftain, attack
    Lackey deals 3, each Chieftain deals 3, each Instigator deals 3*2=6
    -> 3+3+3+6+6 = 21 dmg + the one from Lackey in T2.

    Edit: Shouldnt go afk before typing the post =P.
    Last edited by Holly; 05-24-2012 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Ninja'd

  16. #2576
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by dagoblinguy View Post
    again the deck list is tuned to grind out games against rug tempo, maverick, and blue/black/white control lists since those are the most dominant in the format.
    ...then you probably want to kill cards like
    * Grove of the Burnwillows
    * Maze of Ith
    * Creeping Tar Pit
    * Mishra's Factory
    * Academy Ruins

    ...and steal games with a well-timed Wasteland.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

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  17. #2577
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Well I was hoping they'd print a goblin in Planechase2... I don't think this is good enough for Legacy though...

    Beetleback Chief 2RR
    Creature - Goblin Warrior
    When Beetleback Chief enters the battlefield, put two 1/1 red Goblin creature tokens onto the battlefield.
    Illus. Wayne England 2/2

  18. #2578
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Took first place in my local 8 man last night with the following list:

    4x Wasteland
    17x Mountain

    4x Goblin Lackey
    4x Goblin Matron
    4x Goblin Chieftain
    4x Goblin Ringleader
    3x Warren Instigator
    2x Mogg War Marshal
    2x Siege-gang Commander
    2x Stingscourger
    2x Gempalm Incinerator
    2x TukTuk Scrapper
    1x Goblin Sharpshooter

    4x Tarfire
    1x Pyrokinesis
    4x Aether Vial

    Sideboard:
    3x Relic of Progenitus
    3x Red Elemental Blast
    4x Chalice of the Void
    2x Pyrokinesis
    2x Anarchy
    1x Shattering Spree

    Round 1: "Budget" Reanimator

    My opponent is essentially playing the graveborn pre-constructed deck with a couple extra fatties and a playset of Reanimate (the deck apparently only comes with one).

    Game 1: I keep an aggressive hand on the draw figuring my opponent is on his usual mono-white pile that doesn't pack much by way of removal. He plays a swamp and passes, leaving me confused. I'm able to bounce his turn 3 Avatar of Woe with a Stinger, but he follows it up with Animate Dead on Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Thankfully I draw back to back Ringleaders that give me more than enough goblins to win the race against his lifegain.

    Sideboarding: In: 2x Anarchy, 3x Relic of Progenitus, Out: -2x TukTuk Scrapper, -1x Goblin Sharpshooter, -2x Aether Vial **Note: Against "real" reanimator siding out Vials is likely incorrect, but here I know my opponent is not playing blue and does not have Iona. Anarchy came in to deal with Sphinx, and toward the end of the last game I saw my opponent bin a Blazing Archon that I otherwise have few outs for.

    Game 2: I keep another aggressive hand on the draw, and rip a Relic off the top. I stick the Relic turn 1, followed by a Lackey turn 2. For some reason my opponent decides to go ahead and cast Buried Alive into my relic, binning Sphinx, Jin-Gitaxis, and some sort of dragon. The following turn he goes for a Diabolic Servitude, and I pop the Relic in response. I win easily from there. The Buried Alive was a pretty big misplay on his part...but he's pretty new to legacy so I think that cards like Relic are not something he's used to seeing.

    Round 2: G/W Maverick

    Game 1: I keep another aggressive hand on the play, dropping a turn 1 Lackey. My opponent hits it with a Path to Exlie, which seemed like an alright trade to me. Turn 2 I'm faced with a tough choice and I'm still not sure I made the right call. I have a Chieftain and a Sharpshooter in my hand, and 3 lands in play, to my opponents Noble Hierarch. I ultimately decide to run out the Sharpshooter first to set up for killing Hierarch and any other X/1's on my upkeep. While it paid off this game (my opponent informed me after that he had 4 cards in hand he couldn't play due to sharpshooter), I still think the play was incorrect. I should have played out chieftain, gotten in for 2 damage, and killed the hierarch the following turn with a hasty sharpshooter. Regardless, I win the game on the back of Sharpshooter.

    Sideboarding: In: 2x Anarchy, 1x Pyrokinesis, 2x Relic of Progenitus Out: 4x Lackey, 1x Warren Instigator

    Game 2: I keep a mediocre hand on the draw with a Vial and a Matron, figuring on a turn 4 Sharpshooter. My opponent has a pretty decent start with Hierarch, Mom, and Knight of the Reliquary. I make a mistake by trying to use a Pyrokinesis to kill all three, causing my opponent to turn a forest into a Maze of Ith, keeping the Knight in play. I have a Wasteland for the Maze, and he follows up with a second knight and an Ulvenwald Tracker! Lucky for me, Tracker doesn't have haste, and I rip a Tarfire off the top before he can start fighting my guys. Tracker gets replaced with Mom, and one of his knights gets in for 5. I rip Anarchy off the top, wrath his board, and swing in for the kill over the next two turns.

    A quick note here: Tracker seems like a pretty big beating against us, particularly when paired up with Mom and/or a Knight of the Reliquary. Without the Tarfire off the top I would have easily lost to that card.

    Game 3: U/W Blade

    Game 1: I keep an aggressive hand on the draw. My opponent has a Force of Will for my Lackey, followed up by a Stoneforge Mystic for Batterskull that I can't deal with. The next several turns involve me dealing with Batterskull three times either by blocking, bouncing the germ, or just plain taking damage. After I deal with it the third time, he's at 52 and I'm at 4. His board is a germ-less Batterskull and A Jitte with 0 counters. I'm able to Vial in a Siege-gang and stick a Chieftain in the same turn to start chipping away at his life total. I draw back to back Wasteland, keeping the Batterskull from coming back, and continue to eat away at his life total. He sends my Chieftain plowing, but it's too little too late. This is easily the biggest come-back win of my magic career to date.

    Sideboarding: In: 2x Red Elemental Blast, 1x Shattering Spree Out: 3x Warren Instigator

    Game 2: This game is essentially a repeat of game 1, except he ends up at only 36 life before I stabilize. I get double Wasteland much earlier, and I'm able to stick him on 2 mana for the majority of the game. I try bait his Force of Will with a Matron (I needed a Scrapper for his Jitte) and he takes it (*note to all you control players out there - counter whatever I fetch off the matron, not the matron itself!), clearing the way for back to back Siege-gangs a couple turns later. A couple big attacks later, the game is mine.

    In all, I was quite happy with this list. Mogg War Marshal over Piledriver continued to be excellent for me, especially when I was able to get creative with the echo trigger and gun down a Qasali Pridemage in the Maverick game. More than one game was decided by a horde of goblin tokens and a Chieftain (i.e. both of the U/W games).

    I would have liked to test out Cavern of Souls in the U/W match, but I need some spare cash and/or better luck with prize packs to get my hands on some.

  19. #2579
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Well I was hoping they'd print a goblin in Planechase2... I don't think this is good enough for Legacy though...

    Beetleback Chief 2RR
    Creature - Goblin Warrior
    When Beetleback Chief enters the battlefield, put two 1/1 red Goblin creature tokens onto the battlefield.
    Illus. Wayne England 2/2
    Interesting card...it's essentially Mogg War Marshal's big brother, or a less exciting Siege-gang Commander. I would consider trying them over the Siege-gangs in my list if it wasn't for the late game reach Commander offers, but as it stands I think I would rather have War Marshal than this guy.

    I wonder if this opens up some sort of swarm variant of the deck - say with 4x War Marshal, 4x Piledriver, 4x Chieftain, 4x Beetleback Chief and some number of Siege-gangs? With a resolved Chieftain you're looking at 7 power for 4 mana, and three bodies for a Piledriver.

  20. #2580

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0

    If someone wanted to make a "swarm" varient of goblins, as you suggest with lots of tokens, I would add Goblin King to up the lord count. I doubt that such a deck would be better than the current mainstream version of goblins. The problem with the new guy is that as a 4-drop, he competes with other four and five drops in the deck. I would not want to cut Ringleaders or Siege-Gangs for this guy. He doesn't make the cut for the normal Vial Goblins deck.
    I see more than others do because I know where to look.

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