Yea so far, plasm capture I'll replace for mana drain. And I need a crypt probably take out a wipe. And need to complete fetches and duals :(. I'm just sitting on sealed 5cmdr decks and ftv20 , I'll trade one day for them lol. Or hope for a reprint of the fetches. I spent too much on asian foils. -_- Why the fuck did I do that haha. And they were a bitch and a half to get lol. Esp korean . christ.
Because at that point it becomes a 2-card combo and is no more overpowered than other 2 card combos or other search engines. When you need to run a critical mass of other cards to make a card good, it begs the question of that card's inherent value. Again, combo decks can easily work around the drawback. But a control deck generally plays reactively, saving tutors until you need an answer to the board. What if you need to react to the board state but you don't have any of those cycling engines online for whatever reason? Then your tutor could be a dead card. You'd probably prefer it was Diabolic Tutor at that point. A card is not that reliable if it only conditionally lets you be reactive.
How many Vintage control decks even run Imperial Seal?
*NOTE: In BUG control like Damia, if you run Prophet of Kruphiz and Teferi and Future Sight and such, I would probably run Imperial.
If it was a product of retrograde evaluation standards, people would be arguing to also not play it in combo decks or other EDH decks. But they're not. And I'm saying the opposite. The only argument being put forward is that it doesn't belong in a pure control EDH deck. That's does not imply retrograde evaluation or even a general aversion to the card.I still don't see why an aversion to Imperial Seal isn't just a product of retrograde evaluation standards.
Figured I'd throw my .02 cents in. Also, My Cromat deck isn't PW based at all and I'm coming from a very different mindset/philosophy. Grain of salt and all that!
I run Brainstorm for all the same reasons Ufactor mentioned. It's also worth mentioning that compressing your mana curve also has other interesting effects like making Yawgmoth's Will much better. Which leads into...
Imperial Seal is really good. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to run it (other than outrageous $$$). The board changes all the time. That's certainly not a reason to not play any of the other sorcery-speed tutors like Demonic and Co. As Ufactor mentioned you're just going to get some ridiculous bomb. Is there a point in the game where I don't want a Humility in play? What about Future Sight? Hell no; I want those cards in play all the time. I wouldn't say that Seal + Jace or FS is a combo or anything but just synergy, good cards working well together. I think someone mentioned something about card disadvantage which seems extremely flimsy, at best. Sorry if this comes off as disjointed I'm only trying to address the opposition.
Regrowth is sweet.
Scroll Rack is not sweet.
Last edited by Amon Amarth; 02-13-2014 at 12:00 AM.
"We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."
Question to everyone playing multiplayer control. Do you know how to play it and how to win? I'm not being critical, but it's COMPLETELY different than a 1v1 constructed meta. Sorcery speed is 3x slower. 3x the threats, 3x interactions. It's not you 1v3. Its 1v1v1v1. Other people will destroy critical game changing affects. You need to balance everything.
Imperial Seal is NOT a control card. If you think that an opponents card is so crucial that you need to tutor for a specific answer to it; in hopes from preventing that player to win. Chances are in a magic literate group, that the other players that go after you will target the player or do what is necessary for that player not to win. If not, then maybe that card that didn't get removed probably wasn't too crucial, and you wasted a card trying to find a potential answer.
Also; yes there is many times I wouldn't want humility or future sight in my hand. They do nothing. Humility is only good, if I lost board control or they have only a few creatures that are potent. 5, 1/1's against my 0 1/1's is still scary. I don't know why I would want future sight in a control deck anyways.
Saying, "I want those cards in play all the time." Is a pretty novice assumption by the way. As much as I want Doubling Seasons, there is a correct time when to play it and also more than often a bad time to play it.
card disadvantage - How exactly is that "flimsy"? Do you understand the basis of a control deck? Control's theory is to overall have more cards in the long game and as long as you can't win I can win. Card disadvantage is a "flimsy" argument in aggro but not control.
"Regrowth is sweet. Scroll Rack is not sweet." Doesn't really help the discussion. Regrowth isn't that sweet when their isn't a lot of self milling. It's going to be a dead card 90% in most situations, or a copy of a used spell. With DRS and Ooze being strong counters to this card. I consider it unnecessary to run unless your playing some dredge deck or something.
Scroll rack has been very useful so far. 2 Colorless mana artifact is easy to drop, easy to use, digs deep, interacts with tezz. It's a great card.
"We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."
This thread is for constructive and criticism regarding the noted topic, not for a meaningless arbitrary argument. If you disagree with something I said then comment properly.
I never stated that a play group is bad, but I'm saying imperial seal is not a card to find answers for a certain solution. Imperial seal in EDH is almost exclusively a combo card. Tell me a scenario where imperial seal is A. Better than Diabolic tutor, and B. What card we are finding that Is reactive 3 turns later.
Like I said, if there is a dangerous situation on the board you have to wait an entire rotation before it is dealt with. Probably another player should interact with them causing your next draw to blank. Your also down a card. If you can explain how imperial seal is a reactive response card I would certainly like to know.
Accessories
Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 08-11-2017 at 09:25 PM.
+ Cyclonic Rift
- Hull Breach
New Ajani is meh...
Dack Fayden looks promising however! He will almost certainly replace Ashiok.
Only 13 cards left before everything that can be is foil.
Reflecting Pool, Bribery, Pernicious Deed, and Kiora will be the 'easy' ones.
I've been trying some things out!
So far I am happy with swapping Hull Breach for Cyclonic Rift.
I replaced Academy Rector with Xenagos, the Reveler. Xenagos' ultimate does almost nothing for me at all but his other two abilities are not terrible. Even if Ashiok and Xenagos don't get permanent homes here, I want to dedicate their slots to planeswalker cards. I have already come to terms with cutting Rite of Replication as well. That would get me to 20 planeswalkers, which has been my goal for a while. So of course now I want 21...
Dack Fayden will fill the RoR spot. He will be the second 3 mana planeswalker in the list. I would like to get to 3, but that may take a while because Ashiok isn't spectacular. Little Ajani doesn't work for this deck and the only way to grow Little Lili is too devastating to my hand.
The worst land in the deck is Seaside Citadel. I could replace it with Mana Confluence or whatever... I'm not hugely concerned about it though. Ideally an enemy-color cycle of man-lands is created and either the / or / one is baller.
Tormod's Crypt hasn't done anything for me lately. It is a security blanket of sorts but I might cut it for the 21st walker...
Overall my intention for the deck is changing a bit. I want to keep it competitive but that will no longer be the primary driving force for including or not including a card. I just want to play planeswalkers.
So....
The Chain Veil
M15 Walkers
New Planeswalker/Commander Teferi?
Never thought I'd get 5 new toys from Commander pre-cons!
Assuming the 4 others are as interesting as Teferi, I have to find a lot of space. It just so happens I spent some time last night doing exactly that, not realizing I'd wake up to see Christmas came early.
For M15, I intend to make these changes:
- Control Magic
- Garruk, Primal Hunter
+ The Chain Veil
+ Garruk, Apex Predator
I was able to find 3 other spots last night (thinking that would last me at least a year to fill with planeswalkers...)
- Grave Titan
- Bribery
- Tormod's Crypt
I am reserving Orim's Thunder for another sweeper that handles artifacts and enchantments.
The amount of individual planeswalkers has finally hit a critical mass where I will have to start cutting walkers in order to fit in walkers!
I will say, I was quite shocked as I make my own 5 Color Planeswalker deck, how tight it really is for space! I will post a list a little later (The manabase will hurt your eyes!!, Mirage Fetches + 2/10 Shocklands yo!) but I'm sure you can give excellent advice on it! (Like getting the other 8/10 shocks!). I am not as of yet restricted by the one planeswalker per name, but I might go in that direction. My hardest choices are Ajani (Steadfast or Mentor) and Garruk (Apex Predator, Primal Hunter) and Elspeth (Knight and Sun's Champion).
Instant - 1
Bant Charm
Enchantments - 9
Doubling Season
Pernicious Deed
Mirari's Wake
Maelstrom Nexus
Privileged Position
Planar Colapse
Mana Reflection
Rhystic Study
Phyrexian Arena
Artifacts - 6
Sol Ring
Contagion Clasp
Contagion Engine
Chromatic Lantern
The Chain Veil
Staff of Nin
Sorcery - 18
Beseech the Queen
Hallowed Burial
Rout
Terminus
Demonic Tutor
Rhystic Tutor
Wargate
Blasphemous Act
Time Warp
Nature's Lore
Wrath of God
Conflux
Skyshroud Claim
Cultivate
Jokulhaups
Kodama's Reach
Austere Command
Farseek
Planeswalker - 22
Sarkhan the Mad
Vraska the Unseen
Jace Beleren
Ajani Vegeant
Sorin Markov
Liliana Vess
Ajani Steadfast
Ral Zarek
Jace, Arcitect of Thought
Dack Fayden
Karn Liberated
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Liliana of the Dark Realms
Venser, the Sojourner
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Gideon Jura
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands - 41
Various Bad - Good lands. Need more shocks, fetches ect.
Koolmage, edit your post to include the lands! That's almost half the deck.
These are all cards I've used at some point in this deck.
All the Elspeths are great in Superfriends... I limit myself to one iteration per walker for reasons of flavor. I'd be interested to hear how you find Ajani Steadfast (if you go with him). Way go to with a creatureless build! I will soon be down to only 2 (DRS and Sun Titan). Both provide so much value I doubt I'll ever be able to cut them...
Privileged Position and the Proliferate artifacts seem win-moar. Which, I suppose, is fine for EDH.
Ajani is great with DS, but what planeswalker isnt? Reducing all sources to 1 is a HUGE help, won me a game vs Wanderer. Position is in there partially because it's a great alter as well ;). Lands are.... Bad. Mirage fetches, Refuge, Ect. The proliferate hasn't worked out as well as I wanted it to, to be honest. I want to cut it to 1 of each, but there are so many good Elspeth, Ajani, and Garruk. Also, believe it or not, I want another wrath or 2.
~KM
Khans update
+ Dig Through Time
- Bribery
I rarely interact with my graveyard... Crucible of Worlds and Sun Titan are the only cards that can bring anything back from there. Deathrite Shaman also uses up graveyard cards, but looking at 7 and keeping 2 seems like something this deck wants to do!
I'm getting excited for Wizards to reveal the other 4 Walker-manders for Commander 2014. My testing is showing that Teferi, Temporal Archmage is stupid good with The Chain Veil.
I've already decided on the following changes:
+ Teferi, Temporal Archmage
- Grave Titan
That further reduces the number of creatures I play to 2 (plus Cromat).
I've already come to terms with cutting the following cards in anticipation that some portion of the Commander 2014 walkers will be playable in this deck:
- Tormod's Crypt
- Hmmmm... Damn, I thought I had more space than that...
I want to replace Orim's Thunder, but I want to replace it with another modal sweeper that has yet to be printed.
Well... Sun Titan is an option. I could see parting with Aura of Silence too I guess.
That will probably do for now. I think it is safe to assume at most 3 of 5 will be playable in this deck. If it turns out to be more than that I'll have some tough decisions to make!
---------
Edit - Okay, so I think I've decided...
- Grave Titan
- Sun Titan
- Aura of Silence
- Tormod's Crypt
All to be cut for additional planeswalkers (putting me to a total of 24 in the deck).
Orim's Thunder will eventually get cut for a modal sweeper and Seaside Citadel will get cut for a man-land.
---------
2nd Edit - Yaaaay for C14 spoilers.
-Grave Titan; +Teferi, Temporal Archmage
-Tormod's Crypt; +Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
-Aura of Silence; +Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
I'll probably also cut Stranglehold if I need the space. Card is extremely good, but not very fun. I'm considering Treasure Cruise for Orim's Thunder.
---------
3rd Edit - Okay, all the Commander Walkers have been spoiled.
Nahiri and Daretti don't really have a place in this deck.
So!
-Grave Titan; +Teferi, Temporal Archmage
-Sun Titan; +Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
-Aura of Silence; +Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
-Tormod's Crypt; +Treasure Cruise
Orim's Thunder and Stranglehold get to stay for now.
Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 10-29-2014 at 12:54 PM.
I bought a few foils!
The cards I have left to foil are:
Scalding Tarn
Polluted Delta
Bloodstained Mire
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Force of Will
Demonic Tutor
Dack Fayden
Force of Will and Demonic Tutor are unlikely to ever happen though.
Jace will only happen because the FtV20 version is 'affordable'.
Dack could happen if he's reprinted...
I also plan to add Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and Narset Transcendent.
I know Stranglehold will get cut (for Ugin). The other spot is debatable... Right now I am considering either Orim's Thunder or Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver.
I haven't had much opportunity to play EDH lately as I have devoted my Magic time to Legacy and the cube. I should be able to get my fill of EDH at the end of the month though!
Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 03-11-2015 at 01:28 AM.
From my experience leave the Ashiok - he is too much pain, unless you are playing against someone who constantly knows his top 3 and can change them. The thunder on the other hand seems pretty weak compared to other possible removals.
also in this particular combination of colors I suggest something, well double edged sword will describe it - Dream Halls or other options to trick your cards in - Omni Show from vintage/legacy is too much obvious, so is Sneak Attack
also new sharkhan is tempting
To win is an option, to play is must.
Deck can be competitive, but player have to use his common sense how to play it in different metas.
I began as Timmy and ended up as Johnny
Foil Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is en route!
Got a couple games in tonight against 2 opposing mono- decks. I was pleased with how my deck survived a pretty focused attack on it's mana base. Game 1 Winter Orb came down turn 1 or 2. Early mana rocks and a Dack Fayden I vamp tutored for stole me the game. I powered The Chain Veil out turn 2 thanks to Mana Crypt and ate damage until I found Dack. Then I looted into Tezzeret the Seeker and mini-combo'ed out getting a Gilded Lotus and Sol Ring from my opponents with Dack, and my Batterskull with Tezz.
Game 2 I faced Sinkhole and Wasteland. I landed a Coalition Relic and it got me through an Infernal Darkness thanks to Doubling Season. I fucked up and used the 4 counters on my Relic to play Xenagos, the Reveler which stranded Kiora, the Crashing Wave in my hand (since all my lands made black and my Relic was tapped due to the 4 counter trick... ) I survived the Infernal Darkness thanks to cumulative upkeep cost and double Satyr tokens threatening his life. My life total was also low though and I got extorted to death after the stronger opponent resolved Yawgmoth's Will.
Ashiok hasn't ever impressed me... Mostly because paying to exile 3 cards from one opponent's library never feels worth it. I could see WotC making another Ashiok though. That one might make back in.
Dream Halls is better in a deck with fewer colors. Plus I'm fine with hard casting my spells! I'm the control deck.
Sarkhan Unbroken is tempting. I really like the design of the card. I think Vol still gets the spot though.
I'm really looking forward to Narset Transcendent!
- Crucible of Worlds
- Spell Crumple
+ Narset Transcendent
+ Dissipate
This is a minor update from the new set along with a concession to the new ruling on tucking commanders.
I was originally going to remove Bant Charm for Narset, but I have increased the competition for cards in my graveyard by adding Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, and Deathrite Shaman.
I still plan on replacing Bant Charm when something fun comes around though.
Batterskull is also on the chopping block. I want to replace one or both of these with a future *makes planeswalkers better* card like Rings of Brighthearth, Doubling Season, and The Chain Veil. Magic Origins may have just such a goodie, so we'll see!
I'm excited for Battle for Zendikar block because I have high hopes they will complete the man-land cycle by adding the enemy pairs. If at least two of them are playable, they will take the place of Seaside Citadel and Strip Mine.
I recently picked up Khans foil Bloodstained Mire and Polluted Delta along with Narset Transcendent and an FtV Jace, the Mind Sculptor. That leaves the non-foil cards in the deck as:
Force of Will
Demonic Tutor
Dack Fayden
Scalding Tarn
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I never really mentioned Ashiok before because I always intended to replace him when a better 3 CMC walker was printed... He's been useful recently but not to the extent that he has earned himself a permanent place in the deck. Assuming enemy fetches are reprinted in BfZ block, I'll finally pick up a ZEN Tarn after the prices drop a bit. Again, it seems very unlikely I will ever want to afford a foil FoW, DTutor, or Dack.
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