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Thread: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

  1. #81
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Has it really been 7 months? Where does the time go.

    - Bant Charm
    - Orim's Thunder
    - Gilded Lotus
    - Seaside Citadel

    + Nevinyrral's Disk
    + Damnation
    + Commander's Sphere
    + Lumbering Falls

    This is Damnation's second time in the deck. Welcome back! Sorry to have cut you before.

    Commander's Sphere feels like a better fit than Gilded Lotus. A high number of my spells are multicolored and getting to 5 mana for a rock never felt right. Plus I've already lived the dream of having 4 lands and Commander's Sphere out with Austere Command in hand - tapped the Sphere for , sac'd to draw, hit Savannah, chuckle to myself and nuke the board.

    I've decided to keep Strip Mine, cause 'you never know...' My *permanent* destroyers usually specify non-land and sometimes the problem I need to deal with is a land.
    That means the man-lands will be competing with themselves if better contenders are released in Oath.

    Batterskull will be cut when a fun new planeswalker comes out. That will bring me to 26 and at that point newly released planeswalkers will have to compete for spots with the existing ones. I don't think I can spare any more space in the deck to cram new ones in.

    It's been 2 years since I posted photos of the deck! I owe this thread some updated ones.

  2. #82
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    - Batterskull
    + Nissa, Voice of Zendikar

    Minor change.

    For Shadows of Innistrad, I intend to swap out Sorin Markov for Sorin, Grim Nemesis.
    Sucks because the Markov art is so much better, but Grim Nemesis is easier to cast and appears to do more of what I want...

    Cards on the chopping block include:
    Wishlist for Eldritch Moon:
    • Better Tamiyo
    • A playable 3 CMC planeswalker

  3. #83

    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Contagion Engine could be fun! Its a more useful but less powerful The Chain well.

    Also better if you are behind!
    “Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

  4. #84
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    Contagion Engine could be fun!
    I forgot Contagion Engine proliferates twice per activation!
    I actually tried the card out right after Scars was released. Unfortunately it targets an opponent for the -1/-1 counters rather than 'any number of creatures'.
    I really wanted proliferate to be a thing... It just always felt 'win moar'.

    Also worth noting (because I suppose it isn't obvious), The Chain Veil gives this deck the ability to combo finish. There are a couple of combinations of walkers that allow me to activate Veil as often as I like.
    Pretty much any two of:and Teferi, Temporal Archmage is pretty good at getting a mini-combo going, unfortunately his untap ability is a -1 so I get a limited number of uses.


    Foil Sorin, Grim Nemesis and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver are on their way to me.
    I finally pulled the trigger on Ashiok cause he's not useless and they are really slow to print 3 CMC walkers, so he'll probably be in the deck for a while.

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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Maybe they're too gimicky, but have you given any thought to the various "Oath of X" enchantments from Oath of the Gatewatch?

    Oath of Jace and Oath of Nissa seem particularly interesting, and I guess Oath of Gideon isn't terrible, either.

    There's also Call the Gatewatch, which if it were going to be useful anywhere it's probably in a deck like this one.

  6. #86
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    Oath of Jace and Oath of Nissa seem particularly interesting, and I guess Oath of Gideon isn't terrible, either.
    There's also Call the Gatewatch, which if it were going to be useful anywhere it's probably in a deck like this one.
    I looked at all of those!
    I was contemplating what to cut for Call the Gatewatch when I realized that any black tutor is better... I cut Vampiric Tutor from Mimeoplasm a little while back and haven't regretted it. I'm looking to cut it in this list too (eventually). I use the 'Liliana and a demon' Demonic Tutor for flavor reasons (here's hoping for a reprint of that copy in Eternal Masters! Foil please). Unfortunately Call is just outclassed by older cards.

    I use Oath of Gideon in my Tajic, Blade of the Legion deck (which I am still refining before posting it).
    It is hard to deny Oath of Nissa because it does good things... The mana fixing isn't often going to be relevant due to my mana-base and lack of 'deep in a color' cards (Sorin Markov was my deepest, but now he's going to be Grim Nemesis). It will wiff on creatures always though...
    Oath of Jace also isn't bad. They are probably too cute, but I'll think on them as I get some games in.

  7. #87
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Turns out Oath of Jace is pretty good in this list! It is quite the engine when combined with Top, Jace, or Library and helps get maximum value off Sorin, Grim Nemesis, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, and Narset Transcendent.

    I cut Treasure Cruise for it with no regrets so far.

    Thanks Davran!

  8. #88
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Time for more musings on the direction of this deck as well as notes for the future!

    Deploy the Gatewatch was spoiled recently. I actually really like the potential of this card. If it successfully finds two planeswalkers, you will almost always 'gain' mana by playing it. I tested it a bit with 26 planeswalkers. Wiffing and finding only 1 walker happened more often than I would like. So I tooled around on TCDecks to see what percentage of targets Modern Collected Company decks use.

    The lowest I saw was 26 targets (~43%) and the highest was 34 (~56%). EDH makes the math easy, so I would need between 43 and 56 walkers to maximize the potential of DtG. I went through my list again looking to see where I could make cuts to up the walker count. The highest I think I can go is 30/31 (with/without DtG) so it appears unlikely that any EDH list can exploit this card.

    Here's what I feel I can lose:
    • Deathrite Shaman - My goal is to run a creature-less list. Easy cut.
    • Force of Will - To cast for free costs me a blue card in hand, otherwise I need to leave 5 mana open. Add to that my disinterest in obtaining a foil copy and that my cube needs an Alliances FoW... Well... looks like a perfect storm for getting the axe.
    • Vampiric Tutor - I just dislike playing this card in EDH.
    • Damnation - I already have a foil Wrath of God. Supreme Verdict is uncounterable. I had cut Damnation before and brought it back in a few months ago. It really is just redundant. Toxic Deluge will remain and Damnation will have to go.

    I am excited for the new Tamiyo! She will find a home here, replacing her mono-blue version.

    I think I judged Nahiri, the Harbinger to harshly when I decided not to include her in the list. I was too focused on her ultimate and that I am aiming for a creature-less list. Everybody knows you don't evaluate a planeswalker on their ultimate. Her -2 is quite good and I have been looking for more planeswalkers that can destroy permanents. I think I will test her in the list for a while. I suspect she will earn a place.

    Lastly, I am unimpressed with Stirring Wildwood and Lumbering Falls. Mostly Lumbering Falls... If any interesting lands come up I will look first at cutting one of these lands for it.

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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Turns out Oath of Jace is pretty good in this list! It is quite the engine when combined with Top, Jace, or Library and helps get maximum value off Sorin, Grim Nemesis, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, and Narset Transcendent.

    I cut Treasure Cruise for it with no regrets so far.

    Thanks Davran!
    Glad it worked out for you! I've always been on the fence about building some sort of super friends list myself, so this thread scratches that itch for me.

  10. #90

    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Both new Tamio and Lilliana seems meh in a creatureless deck.
    “Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

  11. #91
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    Both new Tamio and Lilliana seems meh in a creatureless deck.
    Totally agree about new Lili.

    I like new Tamiyo though!
    She comes down a turn earlier and the color commitment isn't really a downside. Bant is probably as easy as . Her -2 protects better than Moon Sage's +1. And with all the board control in the deck, her +1 is likely to draw me more cards than Moon Sage's -2.

    Ultimately playing with her will show which is better. I haven't been thrilled with Moon Sage for a while though.




    Foil Nahiri arrived!
    Damnation was cut.

  12. #92
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Well, I did not expect Conspiracy 2 to have multiple planeswalkers in it because the original only had one. But Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast and Kaya, Ghost Assassin were a nice surprise.

    Neither are particularly awesome, but Daretti will increase the amount of 3 mana planeswalkers to 4. Plus his +1 ability protects the team, that is about all I can ask of a 3 mana walker. It is a shame he makes defenders, but that would have mostly been their role anyway so I won't look a gift-horse in the mouth.

    Force of Will and Deathrite Shaman are easily cut to make room. That will boost the walker count to 29! Still a good way short of making Deploy the Gatewatch playable.

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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    It feels like WotC is printing a lot more Planeswalker cards than they used to...

    I picked up a foil Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast and a non-foil Kaya, Ghost Assassin is in the mail... Looks like she is the Dack Fayden of that set, in that foil copies are worth waaaaaaaaaay more than they should be. Deathrite Shaman was cut for Daretti, meaning I am finally running a creatureless EDH deck! Force of Will will be cut for Kaya.



    I've had to do a lot of thinking recently to figure out what non-planeswalker cards are essential and which could eventually be cut for more Walkers. With Saheeli and Dovin coming out at the end of the month, I'll need to chop at least 2 more cards to fit them in. I also believe Chandra, Torch of Defiance will replace Chandra Nalaar. Both Saheeli and new Chandra can kill the table if I am comboing off with The Chain Veil.

    So what cards are non-essential? Here's the list from least- to most- essential:Replacing all those cards would put me at 41 planeswalkers. That is juuuuust outside the range of making Deploy the Gatewatch function optimally. So it looks like I will never be able to play that card... Oh well.

  14. #94
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    It feels like WotC is printing a lot more Planeswalker cards than they used to...

    I picked up a foil Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast and a non-foil Kaya, Ghost Assassin is in the mail... Looks like she is the Dack Fayden of that set, in that foil copies are worth waaaaaaaaaay more than they should be. Deathrite Shaman was cut for Daretti, meaning I am finally running a creatureless EDH deck! Force of Will will be cut for Kaya.
    Indeed, I actually happened to open a foil Kaya in a box, still trying to figure out what to do with it (I really don't want to foil my whole Ayli deck) since I barely get to play EDH anymore.

    This deck looks great though, reminds me of playing 5-Color 'Walkers in Lorowyn/Shards Standard. Question though, is Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Ashiok really impactful enough for the deck? I know there aren't many 3 CMC options, but these seem especially weak, since Nissa's minus ability doesn't do much with so few creatures.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Ashiok is fairly weak, no doubt.

    3-mana Nissa isn't bad at all though. If you are using her -2, you're doing it wrong. Don't underestimate getting a plant each turn! Ideally she comes down as opponents are playing their first creatures, so I get a plant or two before they start throwing themselves in front of dudes. This deck has an awkward period in many games where playing a planeswalker means getting to use it once, then it dies from attacks.* Nissa helps reduce the awkwardness by coming down early, pumping out blockers, and establishing a beachhead to deploy additional planeswalkers. Daretti will fill a similar role, while occasionally destroying things. The green plants also have some synergy with Xenagos' +1 and Freyalise's -6, but mostly she keeps my guys unharmed until I can nuke the board.

    Because plants are so harmless, she ultimates frequently and by that time it is a draw 6 or 7 at least. She is admittedly not as strong as the Nissa about to come out, but I reaaally need more 3-mana walkers. So until more come out, she's got that spot. But if I can get 5 or 6 other than her, I'll swap her for the new one. Untapping and making an emblem is incredibly strong.

    *To get around this fact, I'll often have to Wrath before going crazy. That usually requires 8+ mana though... My favorite things to do are Deed at EoT, then play 2 walkers. Or play Teferi, untap 4 and Wrath.

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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    It feels like WotC is printing a lot more Planeswalker cards than they used to...

    I picked up a foil Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast and a non-foil Kaya, Ghost Assassin is in the mail... Looks like she is the Dack Fayden of that set, in that foil copies are worth waaaaaaaaaay more than they should be. Deathrite Shaman was cut for Daretti, meaning I am finally running a creatureless EDH deck! Force of Will will be cut for Kaya.
    It's probably because the foils are alternate art with the 222/221 collector number, so all of the collectors and such are picking them up for their uniqueness. Plus, the art on the foils is better IMO, and I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that. That said, I'd really like to get my hands on one (foil or otherwise) because she seems like a pretty sweet card. Who knows, maybe I'll get lucky drafting this week...

    As for Daretti, I was lucky and cracked one last week in a prize pack...but I can't figure out what to actually do with it. Maybe it's time to consider a superfriends deck of my own...

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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    It's probably because the foils are alternate art with the 222/221 collector number, so all of the collectors and such are picking them up for their uniqueness.
    You are likely correct, although that still annoys me because the foil copy isn't any 'rarer' than the foil Daretti's from the set...
    On the plus side, EM Foil Dack is just a bit above $100, so that's kinda affordable now (it's not, but it's less ridiculous than before).

    Kaya arrived and replaced FoW (which is now in my cube). I'm excited for her because she sort of helps with the issue I described above about the 'awkward period' around turn 4/5 of playing a walker into a hostile board-state. I can play her and immediately blink her, keeping her unharmed until my next turn where I can play a board wipe or otherwise find a way to protect her, then build upon the beachhead I've established.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    As for Daretti, I was lucky and cracked one last week in a prize pack...but I can't figure out what to actually do with it. Maybe it's time to consider a superfriends deck of my own...

    There have been so many walkers printed recently that you can now probably do this without going 5-colors (as long as you don't care about using multiple versions of the same walkers). Having in the deck is nice because you get to abuse Doubling Season, but it probably isn't necessary...


    Edit:
    Foil Saheeli Rai and Dovin Baan have been purchased!
    Chandra is likely to take a little while longer as I do not believe she is worth what she's selling for currently.
    Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 09-19-2016 at 09:48 AM.

  18. #98
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker



    Non-foil are Dack, Kaya, Chandra, Ob Nixils, Freyalise, and Teferi.



    Non-Foil Mana Drain and Demonic Tutor.



    Non-Foil Deluge.
    Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 08-11-2017 at 09:27 PM.

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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Photos
    Nice looking deck!

    Out of curiosity, how has the new Chandra been for you? I'm itching to pick up a copy for my deck, but I'm not sure I want to bite the bullet on her pricetag at the moment. Plus there's the whole foil vs. non-foil issue you're having, too.

  20. #100
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    Re: [EDH] Cromat - 5 Color Planeswalker

    Thank you!

    I haven't gotten a chance to truly see Chandra in action. I picked up a non-foil copy for $26-28 (I forget exactly how much). I need 3 foil and 1 non-foil for various decks, but the price my LGS quoted was the lowest I'd heard, and I really wanted an opportunity to play with her. I believe she will continue to come down in price but there is a very realistic chance that a Standard deck will perform well with her as a 2-or-more-of, so right now I'm playing the game of 'see how low she goes' while risking the chance she'll explode in price on a Monday morning... I'll pull the trigger if I see foil copies at $45-50.

    Chandra Nalaar was always my preferred version because she's so good at controlling the board after a boardwipe. I also liked that she has a significant ultimate that you can use right away if Doubling Season is out...

    Chandra, Torch of Defiance looks like she will be an upgrade. She still ultimates right away with DS out, but the emblem she provides is more significant. Her -3 is rough on loyalty considering the effect, but you could argue it is more efficient than Nalaar's -X. Her biggest upsides are providing some semblance of card advantage, but mostly ramp-ramp-ramp! My favorite plays involve emptying a hand of planeswalkers onto the table in one turn. Like if I have 4 lands and a Sol Ring, I can cast Teferi, Temporal Archmage, untap 3 lands and Sol Ring, cast Chandra, add and play Saheeli Rai.

    I don't think there is any questioning if she is good... but her Standard price hasn't bottomed out yet.

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