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Thread: Miracle Control

  1. #9321

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ozimek View Post

    Edit: Why does Serenety keep coming up? You realize it destroys CB, Top, and itself, right? Why would you ever want that over W/T?
    Because Poron is an innovative and genius Miracles player who would also recommend you to play Null Rod in the Miracles SB

  2. #9322

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    top bounces and CB is out in the matchups where you want Serenity.

    MUD, DnT

  3. #9323

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ozimek View Post
    Blood Moon vs. D&T seems horrible though..
    I initially thought this was the case, but I'm actually questioning whether this is true. Shutting down Karakas/Thalia, Port, and Wasteland is huge. The idea is not to lock them out of the game, but rather to bring the match to an even playing field. Without all the land-based tricks, DnT is much, much easier to beat.

  4. #9324
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Giving up fetch shuffles for their Ports/Wastelands/Karakas feels like some Knight-for-Bishop fair trade...the fact that you have to spend a card on it makes it totally not worth it. I think it's a lot easier to bring the match to an even playing field by shuffling to a Terminus.

  5. #9325
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    Giving up fetch shuffles for their Ports/Wastelands/Karakas feels like some Knight-for-Bishop fair trade...the fact that you have to spend a card on it makes it totally not worth it. I think it's a lot easier to bring the match to an even playing field by shuffling to a Terminus.
    Good analogy. I think it depends on how the game has been so far. If you're looking for something to close out the game without actually having something like mentor or stoneforge, etc, at that moment, blood moon neuters the game from their point of view so you don't need the filtering of fetches to get through the game. However, turning off fetches while being behind makes blood moon actively terrible, so it depends on how the game is played. As Philipp said in his earlier post, the matchup is extremely intricate and there are so many factors. Assuming equal playskill, the matchup is equal, but the disparity between a good DnT compared to a bad one is gigantic.

  6. #9326
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ozimek View Post
    If [Warping Wail] ends up being all over the place, I agree that it poses a serious threat to Miracles. Not sure how to best combat it
    Spell Snare?

  7. #9327

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    it can nerf us very much.

    It would be great in Patriot decks as well.

    4 Wasteland, 4 Caverns provide them all the <> they need.

    you are all understimating the card, imho

  8. #9328

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    it can nerf us very much.

    It would be great in Patriot decks as well.

    4 Wasteland, 4 Caverns provide them all the <> they need.

    you are all understimating the card, imho
    What the heck is "Patriot"? UWR Stoneblade? Do you really think they're going to run 8 lands that can't cast any of their coloured spells? And even if they are, what are they cutting? Fetches? Actual lands for casting Swords/Brainstorm/Ponder? What deck wants to run 4 of a land that can only cast a subset of their 12-ish creatures? Even if you name Human for Stoneforge and Snapcaster, now it can't help cast a True-Name Nemesis.

    4 Caverns in a metagame that's so heavily spell-focused is a huge demand of a deck, and while Warping Wail is certainly a good card, I don't think any deck is going to be willing to warp their mana base for it. More likely it'll see play in decks that have no problem producing colourless with their existing manabase (MUD, Painter, Cloudpost, maybe D&T but I'm not sure what they'd cut for it).

  9. #9329
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian View Post
    Even if you name Human for Stoneforge and Snapcaster, now it can't help cast a True-Name Nemesis.
    Stoneforge is a Kor Artificer, not a human.

    Warping Wall or wth it's called, might have a place in the format. Not in the typical decks though, as they rely heavily on coloured mana symbols. Not using wasteland in order to cast this is just like... BrokeBack

  10. #9330
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    I have included one predict (liked a lot!) and reduced the number of kill condition.
    However, i think that this list is lacking more pressure versus combo, MUD, post, or weird decks, maybe if add one more monastery mentor on sideboard or stoneforge package.

    Currently, i'm playing with this list:

    Lands (21 - Miracles doesn't work with less)
    4 island
    2 plains
    1 cavern of souls (naming human preboard and wizard or human post board)
    3 tundra
    2 volcanic
    4 flooded strand
    2 polluted delta
    2 misty rainforest
    1 arid mesa

    Creatures and Planeswalkers (7)
    2 Monastery mentor
    3 Snapcaster mage
    2 Jace, The Mindsculptor

    Business (32)
    4 Counterbalance
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Force of Will
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Terminus
    1 Predict
    1 Council's Judgement
    2 Counterspell

    Sideboard (15):
    1 Izzet Staticaster
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Meddling Mage
    1 Surgical Extraction
    2 Rest in Peace
    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Wear // Tear

  11. #9331
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefanogs View Post
    I have included one predict (liked a lot!) and reduced the number of kill condition.
    However, i think that this list is lacking more pressure versus combo, MUD, post, or weird decks, maybe if add one more monastery mentor on sideboard or stoneforge package.
    That's what sideboards are for =P.

  12. #9332

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefanogs View Post
    ...Currently, i'm playing with this list:

    Lands (21 - Miracles doesn't work with less)...
    Of course it does! Either by lowering the curve further (cut mentor and CJ) or by reconstructing your mana base and remove Cavern of Souls or replace a dual with another fetch. Cavern ranges from cute to great but is a liability and therefor not a consistent mana-source and duals are terrible draws in the wasteland matchups (in this deck, atleast). I can get behind the second plains if you don't play a heavy red sideboard (with blood moon, which I recommend) as long as you have atleast 6 basics.

  13. #9333
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackan View Post
    Of course it does! Either by lowering the curve further (cut mentor and CJ) or by reconstructing your mana base and remove Cavern of Souls or replace a dual with another fetch. Cavern ranges from cute to great but is a liability and therefor not a consistent mana-source and duals are terrible draws in the wasteland matchups (in this deck, atleast). I can get behind the second plains if you don't play a heavy red sideboard (with blood moon, which I recommend) as long as you have atleast 6 basics.

    If you're playing 21 lands, Cavern is fine. If you are playing 19 or 20, just don't. It isn't worth the mana inconsistency. Consistent mana is important against many decks, so I agree with Mackan on this. I tend to fall pretty middle of the road on the utility lands. I haven't gotten around to testing Predict either. My list below, for reference.

    Last edited by winglerw28; 01-15-2016 at 05:55 PM. Reason: lands are important

  14. #9334
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    I've been piloting (and tunig (-1 Mentor, +1 Clique :D)) this list over the last few weeks.

    I have a combined 18-4 matches in the last four local tournaments:

    4x Flooded Strand
    4x Scalding Tarn
    2x Arid Mesa
    4x Island
    2x Plains (This should either be a Karakas or a 3rd Volcanic, but I only own two volc's at the moment, and I really don't want to play a non-basic basic plains, even with 2 cliques)
    3x Tundra
    2x Volcanic Island¨

    4x Ponder
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Sensei's Divining Top

    3x Snapcaster Mage
    2x Monestary Mentor
    1x Vendilion Clique

    2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    4x Force of will
    4x Counterbalance
    2x Counterspell
    [bold]2x Spell Pierce[/bold]

    1x Council's Judgement
    [bold]3x Swords to Plowshares
    3x Terminus[/bold]

    Sideboard:
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Engineered explosives
    1x Æthersworn Canonist
    1x Confinement Priest
    2x Wear // Tear
    2x Red Elemental Blast
    1x Pyroblast
    2x Flusterstorm
    1x Vendilion Clique
    1x Blood Moon
    1x Izzet Staticaster
    1x Surgical Extraction


    This list has been incredible for me.
    My four match-losses have been: 1x RUG Delver, 1x Enchantress w/ Emrakul, 1x MUD as well as 1x Slivers (Saw a ton of swords, 2 terminus in both games I last. He drew 3 lands, Vial as well as Slivers. I drew 1 brainstorm, 2 ponders and 0 tops).

    This list is very close to what I find optimal; My local meta is pretty diverse with all kinds of (playable) delver, ANT, SnT, UBg Omnitell, Miracles, Shardless: A wide palet of a typical metagame, with the odd-balls tossed in: MUD, Enchantress, Painter - Stuff like that. I'm very confident in my list. And I really, really like the Spell Pierces.

  15. #9335

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    DnT is always more and more common.

    Equipments, Vial, Revoker, Spirith of the Labyrinth makes it necessary for us to add, imho, at least a Disenchant to the 2 Wear/Tear list or we might even go 2 Disenchant 1 Wear/Tear

    Rishadan + Wasteland are so enemies of the Volcanic Island (as well as Leonin Arbiter is an enemy of fetchlands) that we want to drop 2 Plains as soon as possible.
    I am adding a second Staticaster and Disenchant because, well, it's needed.

    I am, also, uncertain if we want to keep on playing Vendilion. I see much less SnT decks and, anyway, when they resolve SnT they drop Primeval Titan or Griselbrand, making Clique so much weaker then in Omniscience/DTT times..

    Also, I find myself siding in Pyroblast so much less.. Nowadays threath are mana denial and creatures. We might get big advantage of a 22-23 lands list and a couple more KR (Kozilek's Return)/Pyroclasm/Meekstone. 2 Staticaster are, in my list, a staple. They kill all Mentors tokens, "new" Delvers, Revoker, Thalia, Dark Confidant, Baleful Strix, all Empty the Warrents tokens.. secretly the best card of the deck in some matchup. It also survives both Pyroclasm and Kozilek's Return and triggers for free.

    Against Storm we still play Flusterstorm, Canonist, Counterbalance, FoW. It's all about mulligans and luck that matchup.

    I am going for
    -2 Pyroblast
    -3 Vendilion Clique
    +1 Staticaster
    +1 Pyroclasm (2 in total)
    +1 Disenchant
    +2 Blood Moon (♦ lands usually are non basics as well as all the Grixis, Sultai lands).

    Counterbalance is at its minimum in these days between Vial and Cavern and the drop of storm decks around.
    Spell Pierce is back a fine maindeck addition again.

  16. #9336
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Are you for real?

    Clique as well as Pyroblast are among the most important cards in our 75.

  17. #9337

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    for? I am serious.

    the mirror, what else?

  18. #9338
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Please try and stick to coherent sentences when you are trying to make a point or participate in this (or any) thread. Incoherent words and random punctation marks are not what one would consider a meaningful contribution to a discussion. The more effort you put in your posts, the more effort others will put into their responses.

    Thanks for your understanding.
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  19. #9339

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    if that was for me, I meant the mirror match :|

    Vendilion and Blasts are useful in the mirror match not so much elsewhere

  20. #9340
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Quasim0ff View Post
    Are you for real?

    Clique as well as Pyroblast are among the most important cards in our 75.
    TBH I'm not a fan of playing REB against Storm, either. I'm assuming that's the MU Poron is talking about.

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