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Thread: Miracle Control

  1. #11781

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Hello fellas, I found myself in times of trouble when I asked myself "What would Joe Cool do?"
    The matter was my sideboard plan, specifically vs bug decks.
    Here's my current list:

    1 arid mesa
    4 scalding tarn
    4 flooded strand
    3 tundra
    2 volcanic island
    3 island
    2 plains
    1 mountain
    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    3 predict
    1 counterspell
    4 force of will
    3 counterbalance
    4 sensei's divining top
    2 jace, the mind sculptor
    2 entreat the angels
    3 snapcaster mage
    1 council's judgement
    1 engineered explosives
    4 terminus
    4 swords to plowshares

    Current sideboard:
    3 cliques
    3 flusterstorm
    4 reb/pyro
    2 surgical
    2 wear/tear
    1 kozilek return

    I switched to predict + entreats 2 weeks ago, coming from Angelo's list and I really like how the deck performs against bug decks, especially by blanking their abrupt decays.
    That's why I would like to switch away from the beloved cliques. ANT is less common than before and my plan vs bug would be to make their decays a dead card.

    What cards could fit the slot of the cliques, being strong vs combo and mirror matches?
    Cards I'm considering (but I welcoming accept suggestions:

    - Counterspell
    - The fourth CB
    - The fifth REB
    - From the ashes (this would not really go in the slot, but I would like to find a place for this card)
    - Moat, Humility or other funny enchantments
    - Keranos (not really an option, but I love the card)

    Thanks in advance to the clergy.

  2. #11782
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa91 View Post
    What do you guys think is the best finisher/comeback card against a stifle delver player (in my case grixis). Jace seems bad because of Pyroblast, Entreat sucks against stifle and flusterstorm and Mentor is often times bad because it's pretty bad in topdeck mode and doesn't stop Delver/DRS.

    I mean I get it that any of these cards can finish off Grixis when Miracles has them in a lock already, but often times Miracles needs a more proactive card to stem the bleeding, otherwise Delver just 1-for-1s them and wins because it doesn't play out all its lands and thus generally has way more spells in hand.

    Any thoughts?
    Vedalken Shackles.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  3. #11783

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Vedalken Shackles.
    God I wish. Fuckin' Abrupt Decay man. There are still a few matchups where shackles is insane, but far too few to justify using the sideboard slot for it.

  4. #11784

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    with Abrupt Decay, Ancient Grudge and Null Rod around.

    ooook

    Keranos, trust me. You just fear the counter on the cast and then you win with it and a couple of sweepers

  5. #11785

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Keranos, trust me. You just fear the counter on the cast and then you win with it and a couple of sweepers
    I have played Keranos against miracles in other, shitty decks. Card is amazing in the matchup if it resolves. Back when I was doing it Miracles wasn't playing 4 REBs, but it's still possible to force through resolution of a big spell if you need to, and I do like not dying to the infinite REBs like Jace does.

  6. #11786

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    yes you have to set up its casting and then it's pretty much done, but that nowadays needs CB Top with 1cc on top and couple of counters in hand before jamming it.

    Great card against both 4c Delver, TNN-Leovold Sultai, Sultai Shardless or Delver version and Miracle.

    It dodges Pierce and Snare and it's impossible to destroy once on the battlefield.

    It fears Cspell and FoW.

    I wouldn't play more than 1 honestly. 2 Pyroclasm are possibly necessary to live enough to see it.
    Last edited by Poron; 03-30-2017 at 11:43 AM.

  7. #11787
    Clergyman of Cool
    lordofthepit's Avatar
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Pische View Post
    Hello fellas, I found myself in times of trouble when I asked myself "What would Joe Cool do?"
    Joe Cool would put up an appropriate avatar picture in his profile.

  8. #11788

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Is anyone still trying out Gideon for the mirror or has that pretty much been abandoned?

    The mirror nowadays feels so dependent on red blasts; it would be nice to have a win condition that dodges it, and isn't easy to answer like Mentor.
    Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded

  9. #11789

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Both Gideon and Elspeth, KE are good. Although Elspeth might be better vs BGx decks.

    As for Clique, it probably doesn't hurt boarding in the Cliques vs BGx decks. It is less committal when trying to keep the BGx opponent's honest.

    If they see a sea of Predicts game 1 against you, they are probably savvy enough to board out all their Abrupt Decays. In which case, I'm sure they are just dead vs Clique if they boarded out their Decays. If they do keep them in, just be glad that you didnt tap out on your own turn for Counterbalance.

  10. #11790

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by gh0st_b1rd View Post
    Both Gideon and Elspeth, KE are good. Although Elspeth might be better vs BGx decks.

    As for Clique, it probably doesn't hurt boarding in the Cliques vs BGx decks. It is less committal when trying to keep the BGx opponent's honest.

    If they see a sea of Predicts game 1 against you, they are probably savvy enough to board out all their Abrupt Decays. In which case, I'm sure they are just dead vs Clique if they boarded out their Decays. If they do keep them in, just be glad that you didnt tap out on your own turn for Counterbalance.
    Why do you say Elspeth is better against BUG?

    Big fan of Elspeth btw, I just feel like she's been outclassed by Gideon a bit, but would love an excuse to run with Elspeth XD

    I agree that Clique is good against BUG. Clique getting decayed is not that big of a deal if you cast it on their EOT.

    It gets red blasted, sure. But "it gets red blasted" is the becoming the new "dies to doom blade" in this thread.

    How many forces do you guys usually side out against BUG/4c Czech pile type decks? They're nice for countering high value cards like Jace/Garruk/Library. But you certainly don't want to get flooded on them.
    Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded

  11. #11791
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Elspeth is better at slaying opposing Planeswalkers because of the flying.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  12. #11792

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by FZA View Post
    Why do you say Elspeth is better against BUG?
    Because in certain circumstances Elspeth can trade with other Planeswalkers in the face of opposing creatures. Granted you need to have played Elspeth first.

    I could be entirely wrong in this case and that Gideon is just better by force, but it felt like when being forced "to do nothing," Elspeth is improving her loyalty while Gideon's ceiling is just make a 2/2 and opportunistically an Emblem.

  13. #11793
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    For whatever its worth, Elspeth runs into incidental mentor hate like Sulfur Elemental or Dread of Night worse than Gideon

  14. #11794

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthepit View Post
    Joe Cool would put up an appropriate avatar picture in his profile.
    I fixed it.

  15. #11795

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Hey, guys! Been a lurker for a while, first time poster!

    I've been following/watching Legacy for a while now, and I've decided to dive in. I've chosen to adopt Miracles, as it seems to be one of (if not the) strongest decks right now, and offers a good way to learn the meta, while also having a super high ceiling that rewards practice and promotes growth.

    With all that being said, I am technically "new" to Legacy, so I was wondering what list you all would recommend for someone starting out. Of note, I'll be moving soon, so I'd be walking into an unknown meta, so I wouldn't be able to gear the deck super-hard to any prevalent threats, at least main-deck-wise.

    I've definitely watched/studied Joe Lossett's list the most, but my understanding is that, although he believes it's the strongest iteration, it takes the most skill and familiarity to pilot excellently, which it requires in order to be a better choice than more stock lists. I'd definitely like to have an Entreat or two in my 75, but I'm not sure I'm ready for 2x Venser and 3x Clique yet.

    So what do you all recommend for a good starting point in my Miracles journey?? Thanks in advance!

  16. #11796

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSlipperiestBogle View Post

    So what do you all recommend for a good starting point in my Miracles journey?? Thanks in advance!
    As with any control decks in any format, control deck is just a bad starting point for a format. A control deck requires you to trade 1-for-1 correctly and understand what to counter in each MU. This was true with Sphinx Revelation Standard while back as it is true in Legacy. In other words, Miracles should not be your first Legacy deck.

    If you insist, then you should try the 2~4 Mentor build first. Legend Miracles popularized by Lossett has the longest learning curve of all Miracles and most Miracles builds have long learning curve comparing to other Legacy decks to begin with. Please learn to operate with SDT efficiently and to avoid draws first, before you try to make good use of Karakas.

  17. #11797
    Draw-Go Disciple
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Pische View Post
    Hello fellas, I found myself in times of trouble when I asked myself "What would Joe Cool do?"
    The matter was my sideboard plan, specifically vs bug decks.
    Here's my current list:

    1 arid mesa
    4 scalding tarn
    4 flooded strand
    3 tundra
    2 volcanic island
    3 island
    2 plains
    1 mountain
    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    3 predict
    1 counterspell
    4 force of will
    3 counterbalance
    4 sensei's divining top
    2 jace, the mind sculptor
    2 entreat the angels
    3 snapcaster mage
    1 council's judgement
    1 engineered explosives
    4 terminus
    4 swords to plowshares

    Current sideboard:
    3 cliques
    3 flusterstorm
    4 reb/pyro
    2 surgical
    2 wear/tear
    1 kozilek return

    I switched to predict + entreats 2 weeks ago, coming from Angelo's list and I really like how the deck performs against bug decks, especially by blanking their abrupt decays.
    That's why I would like to switch away from the beloved cliques. ANT is less common than before and my plan vs bug would be to make their decays a dead card.

    What cards could fit the slot of the cliques, being strong vs combo and mirror matches?
    Cards I'm considering (but I welcoming accept suggestions:

    - Counterspell
    - The fourth CB
    - The fifth REB
    - From the ashes (this would not really go in the slot, but I would like to find a place for this card)
    - Moat, Humility or other funny enchantments
    - Keranos (not really an option, but I love the card)

    Thanks in advance to the clergy.

    Even with Decay Clique is fine. But I don't play it anymore and have +1 Gideon +1 From the Ashes +1 Snapcaster

  18. #11798
    Predictor of Miracles
    Minniehajj's Avatar
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Pische View Post
    I fixed it.
    You should try to not use the same one as someone else....
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  19. #11799

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    You should try to not use the same one as someone else....
    God, I thought it was an easier task.
    I'm searching...
    ...found one!

  20. #11800
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    So uhh 448 players in legacy euro champs... predict miracles mirror in the finals.

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