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Thread: Miracle Control

  1. #11861
    The Agonistic Antagonist
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Congrats Eli Kassis taking down Open Worcester with Predict Miracles!

    That g2 1-land keep was one of the loosest plays I've ever seen, topped only by Nate keeping a 0 lander with 2 Git Probes (for those of you not in the know, Git Probe is a trap when it comes to mulligan decisions).
    The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.

  2. #11862

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Congrats Eli Kassis taking down Open Worcester with Predict Miracles!

    That g2 1-land keep was one of the loosest plays I've ever seen, topped only by Nate keeping a 0 lander with 2 Git Probes (for those of you not in the know, Git Probe is a trap when it comes to mulligan decisions).
    Unexpectedly absent, 3 plains, 1 fluster, no basic mountain, rips instead of surgicals, bridge/moat split, 1 of clique and mentor sb, 3 volcs main, and 2 blood moons sb...lots of interesting choices and deviations from certain theories.

  3. #11863

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Echohots View Post
    Unexpectedly absent, 3 plains, 1 fluster, no basic mountain, rips instead of surgicals, bridge/moat split, 1 of clique and mentor sb, 3 volcs main, and 2 blood moons sb...lots of interesting choices and deviations from certain theories.
    Listen to his trophy interview with Nick. He said it openly Absent is a bad card, should have been a counter.

  4. #11864
    Predictor of Miracles
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    My good friend Thomas Mechin, winner of EU Eternal Weekend, finally got around to getting his report translated. Here is the English translation. Might still be rough in a few spots, but perfectly understandable: https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com...d-europe-2017/
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  5. #11865

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    I have heard and seen a lot of the Predict hype recently. It's worth pointing out that 80+% of the tier 1 Miracles players hopping on Predict and Entreat don't necessarily make it great right now; it skews results and makes everyone think that it's the best thing to do. While it certainly has merits, it's worth theory-crafting and discussing objectively rather than looking at the skewed results (which show the best Miracles players doing well per usual, nothing new there). This post isn't in response to anything in particular by the way - I've just noticed everyone riding the Predict train.

    Interestingly, Legends seems more appealing right now than it used to be for several reasons. It's easy to point at oarsman's one unlucky run as a reason why it's not great right now, but if you look at the midrange and Miracles meta and low number of Dazes I think Legends is objectively a solid choice.

  6. #11866
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    I definitely got punked this weekend, no doubt about that. But that HAD to happen eventually. Oddly enough, I didn't play against a tier one deck during the open (although I wasn't in it for that long). I didn't do myself any favors either. For whatever reason I was off - I even forgot counterbalance was on the board at one point. I haven't done that in a couple years I don't think

    I did play teferi in the board this weekend. Mostly it was intended to pick off leovolds and further dump on anyone trying to play blue against me. What it actually ended up doing is countering a bunch of rift bolts, which didn't matter since I got lit up by a fusillade of maindeck exquisite firecrafts.

  7. #11867
    Clergyman of Cool
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Pische View Post


    I hear these tokens help in the mirror match.
    Where do we get these?

  8. #11868
    The Agonistic Antagonist
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Echohots View Post
    no basic mountain, rips instead of surgicals, bridge/moat split, 1 of clique and mentor sb, and 2 blood moons sb...lots of interesting choices and deviations from certain theories.
    Picking out these, they aren't deviations. The other things you mentioned though, yes, those are.
    The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.

  9. #11869

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by oarsman View Post
    I did play teferi in the board this weekend. Mostly it was intended to pick off leovolds and further dump on anyone trying to play blue against me.
    I definitely want to try this now. Flashing in Teferi to block Leovold might be the play I want to make more than anything else right now. Sounds awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by oarsman View Post
    What it actually ended up doing is countering a bunch of rift bolts, which didn't matter since I got lit up by a fusillade of maindeck exquisite firecrafts.
    I don't understand why this isn't more common, honestly. I honestly think a good player with 4 maindeck firecrafts in their burn deck would be a force to be reckoned with in the current metagame. I just don't know many good players who want to play burn. That card is legitimately good enough that I think we probably overlooked Urza's Rage for years and it should've been seeing more play. The knowledge that there are uncounterable burn spells coming fundamentally shifts how the blue player has to play the burn matchup, and it's not a pleasant shift for blue. The matchup, like every matchup, is winnable, but it's more dangerous now than it used to be.

  10. #11870

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Urza's Rage + Snapcaster Mage was my favourite closure in high tide.

    Also tutorable with Merchant Scroll

  11. #11871

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by oarsman View Post
    I definitely got punked this weekend, no doubt about that. But that HAD to happen eventually. Oddly enough, I didn't play against a tier one deck during the open (although I wasn't in it for that long). I didn't do myself any favors either. For whatever reason I was off - I even forgot counterbalance was on the board at one point. I haven't done that in a couple years I don't think

    I did play teferi in the board this weekend. Mostly it was intended to pick off leovolds and further dump on anyone trying to play blue against me. What it actually ended up doing is countering a bunch of rift bolts, which didn't matter since I got lit up by a fusillade of maindeck exquisite firecrafts.
    Hey Joe, just wondering if you had an opinion on whether Predict is the real deal or if the results are being skewed by high level Miracle players simply winning as usual like patrunken is saying.

  12. #11872

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    I finished 12th at SCG Worcester with the following list:

    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=112737

    List felt very strong all weekend despite my losses. I've been a longtime naysayer of playing Predict but in the last month or so of testing I've grown to deeply respect it's place in Miracles. Especially with the growing popularity of non-Miracles control decks. I firmly believe the optimal number of predicts to be 2.5, but I ended up settling on 2 instead of 3 - mostly because I like having access to 2 Counterspells for large tournaments.

    In general, especially on Day 2, the meta for this tournament felt fairly hostile to Miracles. Matchups were:

    R1: Win 2-0 vs BUG Aluren
    R2: Win 2-0 vs RG Lands
    R3: Win 2-0 vs BR Reanimator
    R4: Win 2-0 vs RG Lands
    R5: Draw 1-1-1 vs Legends Miracles
    R6: Loss 0-2 vs Food Chain
    R7: Loss 1-2 vs Czech
    R8: Win 2-0 vs UW Landstill
    R9: Win 2-0 vs Elves
    R10: BYE (Joe Cool Smile)
    R11: Win 2-0 vs Edgar Magalhaes on Czech
    R12: Win 2-1 vs DNT
    R13: Loss 0-2 vs DNT
    R14: Win 2-0 vs Danny Jessup on Mentor Miracles
    R15: Win 2-0 vs Brendan Dicandio on Legends Miracles

    In response to my dear friend Patrunkenphat, I believe Legends Miracles to be a pretty weak variation in current Legacy for a variety of reasons. The value you get out of the Legendary creature package is just so lackluster against decks like Czech and other delverless control decks. That's why a lot of non-Legends lists have cut Cliques all together. Sure, the creature package is very nice against say Sneak and Show but even in the mirror, having raw card advantage (which is also relevant against a lot of what the format is trying to do) is imo more desirable.
    "Take your time."

    Legacy: UWR Miracles
    Vintage: UW Landstill

  13. #11873

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by hyp3r1on View Post
    I finished 12th at SCG Worcester with the following list:

    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=112737

    List felt very strong all weekend despite my losses. I've been a longtime naysayer of playing Predict but in the last month or so of testing I've grown to deeply respect it's place in Miracles. Especially with the growing popularity of non-Miracles control decks. I firmly believe the optimal number of predicts to be 2.5, but I ended up settling on 2 instead of 3 - mostly because I like having access to 2 Counterspells for large tournaments.

    In general, especially on Day 2, the meta for this tournament felt fairly hostile to Miracles. Matchups were:

    R1: Win 2-0 vs BUG Aluren
    R2: Win 2-0 vs RG Lands
    R3: Win 2-0 vs BR Reanimator
    R4: Win 2-0 vs RG Lands
    R5: Draw 1-1-1 vs Legends Miracles
    R6: Loss 0-2 vs Food Chain
    R7: Loss 1-2 vs Czech
    R8: Win 2-0 vs UW Landstill
    R9: Win 2-0 vs Elves
    R10: BYE (Joe Cool Smile)
    R11: Win 2-0 vs Edgar Magalhaes on Czech
    R12: Win 2-1 vs DNT
    R13: Loss 0-2 vs DNT
    R14: Win 2-0 vs Danny Jessup on Mentor Miracles
    R15: Win 2-0 vs Brendan Dicandio on Legends Miracles

    In response to my dear friend Patrunkenphat, I believe Legends Miracles to be a pretty weak variation in current Legacy for a variety of reasons. The value you get out of the Legendary creature package is just so lackluster against decks like Czech and other delverless control decks. That's why a lot of non-Legends lists have cut Cliques all together. Sure, the creature package is very nice against say Sneak and Show but even in the mirror, having raw card advantage (which is also relevant against a lot of what the format is trying to do) is imo more desirable.
    Congrats on the finish! Do you have any notes on your matches, sbs ins and outs, or any real moments that stand out from your matches? Also, the r10 bye must have felt great.

  14. #11874

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Urza's Rage + Snapcaster Mage was my favourite closure in high tide.

    Also tutorable with Merchant Scroll
    Merchant Scroll
    1U
    Sorcery
    Search your library for a blue instant card, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

  15. #11875

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    well, I used to play Solidarity instead of Spiral Tide

    Cunning Wish surely works

  16. #11876

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by gh0st_b1rd View Post
    -4 Terminus
    -2 Plains
    -1 Council's Judgment
    -4 Swords to Plowshares

    +2 Surgical Extraction
    +4 REBs
    +3 Flusterstorm
    +1 Snapcaster Mage
    +1 EE

    If you see Xantid Swarm instead of bringing in EE and 2 REBs leave in 3 Swords to Plowshares.

    Thats how I would assume the boarding works out at least.

    Also, 3x Flusterstorms in the SB and 4 REBs seem excessive. Is it wrong to trim the 3rd Flusterstorm and 4th REB for other tech cards?
    then they own you with a Squire. Already been there already done that.

    Wise storm player will always have a transformational SB against control. Phyrexian Obliterator can be landed on turn 0 with DRitual. I always keep Izzet Staticaster and 2 Terminus there for both Goblins and surprises

    Have you seen the eternal format legacy winner?
    2 ETA + 3 Mentors + 2 Jace in the 75

    to be full of WC is definitly an advantage. Too many decks now have inevitability also against us (TNN + Decay Leovold and much more) this makes us much more in need to close the match before turn 11

  17. #11877
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Turn 0 Obliterator, holy shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  18. #11878
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Turn 0 Obliterator, holy shit.
    I'm not sure why more people aren't on this vs us. Just board in 4 d rit, 4 crit, 4 obliterators and B-producing lands if you aren't on a deck with B lands anyhow.

  19. #11879

    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    yeah it's surely easy to deal with it without StP and Terminus.

    In their place I would play 4 Young Pyromancer SB (and some Gurmag Angler)

  20. #11880
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    Re: [DTB] Miracle Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    yeah it's surely easy to deal with it without StP and Terminus.

    In their place I would play 4 Young Pyromancer SB (and some Gurmag Angler)
    I actually know that Surfinbird19 on mtgo (who plays ant exclusively) is on 4x YP + 4x ETW vs us.

    Angler is garbage vs us, mentor/yp is not.

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