Why not both? Return Drana from Alesha trigger seems nice!Originally Posted by sdematt
I'm obsessed with getting Alesha to work but I haven't found the right shell.
I really want to use her with Lim-Dul's Paladin, Avalanche Riders, and other cool ETB creatures, potentially with Feldon of the Third Path as backup, but I fear it's just inferior to Moggcatcher.
You definitely need to go on the Ancient Tomb/Chalice/3ball route, which means it's not really this deck, since that takes a lot of your cheap interaction off the table, but one day...
I'm attempting a moon version. Source ate my post, so I'll just elaborate if it doesn't garbage hard on thursday.
I think Alesha wants to be next to Thalia so you can build up a First Strike wall (and the requisite Lightning bolt so you can kill goyfs with them.) I like her more for her body than her ability. The ability is decent, but difficult to use well due to the "and attacking" bit and it's color-heaviness. Being a 3-power first strike though is alright enough since she has upside. I wouldn't be surprised if someone eventually has an Alesha and Taxes list.
I think Alesha and Drana put you on two different plans - with Alesha you want a small creature squad, with stuff like Thalia, maybe Vampire Nighthawk, etc. Some recursion engines and such. With Drana, I think you just go much more token focused - Souls, maybe Bitterblossom, and even Timely.
Here's my thoughts:
Drana
4 SFM
4 DRS
3 Dark Confidant
2 Drana
13
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Lingering Souls
1 Bitterblossom
1 Timely Reinforcements
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Equipment
17
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Terminate
4 STP
2 Top
2 Painful Truths
12
20-21 lands
Obviously I'm 1-2 over, but you catch my drift. Whereas,
Alesha
4 DRS
4 SFM
2 Alesha
4 Dark Confidant
4 Thalia
2 Vampire Nighthawk
+ Grim Lavamancer, Ranger of Eos, Bone Shredder, Avalanche Riders, Big Game Hunter --> possibilities.
etc.
I said I'd wait to Thursday, but early testing against (Stifle) Grixis Delver seems to imply the manabase to this odd pile is working fine. Went 4-1 in games I think despite all the Stifles and Wastelands. Even with his 6 red removal (Forked Bolt and Lightning Bolt) Magus of the Moon was reasonably effective at locking the game out once or twice.
-18-
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Duergar Hedge-Mage
-10-
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Bitterblossom
3 Liliana of the Veil
-12-
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
3 Punishing Fire
-21-
4 Bloodstained mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 Plateau
1 Bayou
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
SB
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Plague
1 Choke
1 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Cabal Therapy
Obviously some odd choices in there, but basically:
* I've been wanting to run Pfire while having decent combo game
* Magus improves most combo MUs, so I'm counting him as a hatebear (Reanimator, ANT/TES, and Elves are all somewhat weak to it)
* Groves casting DRS actually make them better than Basics at casting cards in this deck
* Groves + Bayou (before fetches) are already 85% sufficient for casting the 2 Decays reliably. It looks more greedy than it is, because you're used to using wastelands
* Magus is better than Wastelands most of the time, so he makes my own manabase better.
* Rabblemaster is a fast clock that doesn't require synergies or other cards to make work; unlike Pyro or Mentor. They may well be better here, but I'll wait until a tournament to decide.
So far, Top has felt pretty good and despite the apparent anti-synergy of the pieces, it functioned reasonably well. I wouldn't be surprised if I swap SoFaF for Greaves, but we'll play with it a bit. I think SoFaF may help deal with Fish/Goyf; though I only had issues the one game (where he found 2 Gurmags and a Tasigur..)
It's a little high on 3-drops, but I wanted Hedge-Mage as Decays 3/4 with a little bit of CA. Wear/Tear may be alright, although that's more of a sideboard card.
Went 2-1; loss to Tezzerator due to some bad decisions/draws. (G2 I expected to draw another mountain for Hedge mage and I didn't, and I could've used Magus a turn earlier to get the Hedge Mage a turn earlier. G3 I killed myself by playing Rest In Peace to stop Thopters; he tutored for Helm. GAAAAH I FORGOT ABOUT HELM AHHH!)
Win against Maverick:
- G1 - Typical midrange grindyness with Blossom, but I lock him out with Magus of the Moon into a second Magus and grind him out with tokens and Liliana while he's attempting to beat in with KotR, keeping Mom/DRS on the backline. This game was mostly decided by Magus and then a desperation block he made of Mom + DRS that I was hoping for, which I PFired the Mom in response to her protection; giving me a 2-for-1 and leaving him with just KotR against a field of Fae and my moon-man.
- G2 - T1 we both skip our turns. T2 He plays QPM and I plow it. I then Cabal his KotR (blind) and he has no other action than a plow. I go through a couple SFMs, a Liliana, and some stuff which gets there. Very one sided.
Win against Reanimator:
- G1 - DRS->Revoker. He kills them with Elesh which I plow. He starts reanimating my stuff to go for mini-beats and I use SFM into eventual Lili to win it. I had Moon late, but he had swamp and island, so I avoided it.
- G2 - I keep a one-lander of Liliana, 2x Plow, Fetch, DRS, Therapy, something. I Fetch into DRS and he counters it, sitting on 1 land, and hasn't Entombed yet. I therapy and there's no response. I call Reanimate since he kept a 1 lander and see 2x Reanimate (YES), Dreadnought, Needle, 2x Vision Charm. We both get stuck on our 1 land for another long time, and I eventually Moon-lock him since he didn't have basics out yet.
Thoughts:
* Moon - Was quite good, even with my wacky mana-base.
* PFire - Didn't need to turn it on, but I noticed after testing that Plow triggers PFire. That's cool as balls.
* Hedge-Mage - Probably bad. I lost by not having 2x Mountain at the proper time; but maybe I could've played better by fetching a better land in advance. If I remove him, it'd be for Revoker + Decay or something.
* Abrupt Decay - Never had issues casting it. I wouldn't be surprised if I could add a third with no mana issues. Sometimes Magus gets in the way; but people are often so scared of the Moon effect or are trying to next level my Moon-beats that they'll do the wrong thing. "I think you need your mana" or "I super need to kill this guy" and then they'll open up your hand
* Rabblemaster G1 on Tezzerator did the ol' "kill you and everything you have. Felt great.
* Can't say much on Greaves yet. I didn't see Maverick's hand at the end to see if SFM+Sword dodged removal due to the greaves or not. I have had a couple games where I got to make my Faeries have haste by jumping it around.
Maybe Lingering Souls instead of Hedge-Mage? More tokens seem good with equipment.
I'm still playing this color combination and have been doing pretty well at locals with the following list:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Containment Priest
3 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lingering Souls
3 Painful Truths
4 Tombstalker
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
3 Scrubland
2 Badlands
2 Plateau
1 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Plains
SB:
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Slaughter Games
2 Extirpate
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Deflecting Palm
Can't seem to beat burn, but otherwise the deck seems decent. Changing Thoughtseize to Inquisition of Kozilek may help a bit with the burn matchup.
What art Hymn are you running? Thanks.
You could probably beat burn with an SFM package; such is life.
The list I posted above (or close to it) has treated me well, but I haven't gotten many locals with it since holidays goof everything up; but it felt good to moon people while plowing and decaying.
@Nedleeds (I realize you didn't ask me)
I always run as many arts as possible, probably in the order of
Scott, Quinton, and Susan/Liz are interchangeable. Mostly for the color palettes.
Timely Reinforcements against burn maybe? Or just firewalkers
Quinton Hoover Hymn to Tourach
Alpha Red Elemental Blast
Beta Swords to Plowshares
M11 Lightning Bolt
Your list is interesting. Got some cool ideas going on, but I am very skeptical about the mana base.
Interesting list. I'd be scared to leave home without the SFM package. It seems weak on paper, since Blade decks aren't dominating, but they're not playing the same game we are. If you're looking to beat Burn, I'd continue on the token train and run Timely for the 6 life swing. Jitte is also pretty nutters against them, or Sword of War and Peace.
-Matt
It looks a lot better when you think about having Wastelands in those Grove's slots for a true tri-color. The Groves, for instance, cast 25 of the spells in the deck. That's better than half of the duals in the deck. Considering it that way, I have 3 more colored lands (and dual color at that) than most other lists.
Moon can scramble it a bit, but you have the option of when you play it (you typically don't need to jam it T2, you just use it to lock up the game against decks that can't beat it.)
I'll get some more reportable testing this week finally. I'm quite glad they didn't ban anything so I'm not dealing with another brand new meta lol
I hear you on not running Wasteland. I wanted 1st turn bolt, swords, or thoughtseize/drs; and 2nd turn Hymn. As such, I couldn't really fit Wasteland. By my count; you have 14 black sources, 12 white sources, 15 red sources, 12 green sources. That is not terrible, but a little ambitious IMHO. If I could offer a suggestion, it would be to cut basic Mountain for another Scrubland. You should still be fine for 1st turn Bolt, and make StP and Liliana a little more castable.
My 1st draft of the deck included a SFM package. It just seemed...slow. Could very well be a mistake to not play SFM.
What I can say, is that the way my games typically play out is to 1st, heavily disrupt the opponent, then 2nd land a threat and ride it home. I get that SFM could be that threat, but it is mana intensive, typically attacks a turn later, and doesn't fly.
Perhaps something like -1 Containment Priest, -4 Tidehollow Sculler, +3 SFM, +1 Batterskull, +1 Jitte would be a better place to be. OTOH, nabbing a Life From the Loam or Punishing Fire with Sculler has saved my bacon a couple of times. Not really sure...
I tried IoK this week and didn't like it in my unscientific 4 round local. I think I may just play Thoughtseize this weekend at SCG Atlanta and hope to dodge burn.
A. That's probably not a bad idea. I feel like I may want to fetch basic mountain more often than you'd think though, simply because getting wasted out because you can't fetch it could be obnoxious. I'll think on it for sure.
B. She really is. The issue is that it's about the only way you can deal with burn in the non-blue B/x/x decks. Blue can at least threaten to cancel random spells from them and dig for their powerhouses. We only have the luxury of getting lucky with finding powerhouse cards (which in SFMs case multiplies the chances), or play weird lines (plowing your own fatty, or just have an explosive start that ends up working out (DRS->Liliana is still pretty good against them.)
Your deck is probably a teensy too Quad-Laser, and may run better if you figure out which cards are worth cutting. IME Gitaxian Probe + Therapy is awesome next to Tombstalker. I'd replace some number of Hymns, Thoughtseize, 1 Tombstalker, Sculler, 3-Drops, and probably 1 land with a 3/3 or 4/3 split. Probe powers your graveyard quickly and those lucky Probe Therapy hands are beautiful. You may even shave 2 lands off the count doing that, given you're all the way up at 23. 1-2 Lands, 1 hymn, 1 thoughtseize, 1 Tombstalker, 1 sculler, 0-1 three Drops?
EDIT: Additionally, since you already have souls, Souls is a great synergy with Therapy anyway. Another consideration is Rabblemaster if at some point you have Jace/Liliana issues. The hastey token is nice and he's a 2-turn clock essentially (1,6,8 = 15). I've had mild luck with him (but would suggest no more than 2 in probably any deck. They don't work as well in multiples IMO due to forcing them to attack.) They also have nice synergy with Therapy since the garbage he leaves on the board are perfect sacs.
EDIT2: Results
Had a bad night, 1-2. Beat some GR tribal thing.
MU2 - Esper Blade
G1 - I couldn't tell what he was on and had a hand of 2 DRS, 2 Decay. I end up finding revokers as he discards/plows my DRSs and I put him on Esper Miracles since he's not being proactive at all. He then plays truths, and follows it next turn with Lingering souls + Flashback. Balls. I eventually see his hand and it's Snap, SFM, and a bunch of other stuff and I have no way to deal with Souls. Grumble.
G2 - Mull to 5 (6 lands, 1 land, ok hand) but I draw into nothing but white cards basically, while finding all non-white lands. I do land Choke on him and Rabblemaster gains me some ground while he's having mana issues, but he had 2x SFM and a Jace, he can only be so behind :p. He eventually finds land and Tasigur with his free Jace cards and I continue finding Plows.
MU3 - D&T
G1 - I do a slight ramp into Rabblemaster and he doesn't have the plow. He's dead a few turns later.
G2 - I get a bunch of discard and it comes down to needing removal for his last Serra Avenger so I can breath and get a liliana and stuff down. Unfortunately I top, no removal, fetch, Top, no removal. GG.
G3 - Interesting game where we're both keeping eachother in check and I'm on another Mull to 5 (5 lander, 1 lander.) I misjudge how crazy he is with his cataclysm and think that I should hold my therapy for later. I was wrong and he goes for it, then draws into Plow -> Vial -> Flicker wisp. The plow being important due to a Jitte I had on the field; equipped, but stuck against a Mother of Runes.
I did get hit with a couple games where I couldn't cast stuff. It wasn't common in testing or the previous tourny, but I did add the third Decay for yesterday. Sideboard against D&T is a little awkward as I think Magus is good against them (no Wastelanding, no Porting, no Karakas tricks) but I'm not sure what I'd cut. I ended up siding out 1 Thoughtseize, 3 Magus, and 2 something else for Tutor, E-Plague, 2 Containment Priest, 2 Cabal Therapy.
I'll update as I tinker with it.
Last edited by tescrin; 01-22-2016 at 11:32 AM.
Does Queen Marchesa look like she could fit in this deck? She looks like a really awesome card that should see a decent bit of legacy play... except that this is the only deck that I can find that runs Mardu.
In the new meta without top+balance, and with fatal push, bone picker, chandra... this deck could be a thing again.
I have started working on an updated list of this deck. I will post shortly with my results.
This is a rough draft of my first list thoughts?
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:13
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Spells:26
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Council's Judgment
1 Kolaghan's Command
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Lands:21
1 Arid Mesa
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Plateau
3 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
1 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
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