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Thread: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

  1. #1
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    [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    so, the Academy Researchers + Eldrazi Conscription combo isn't a secret, probably because it's not very good, but i was wondering if anyone's ever given the combo any serious consideration. a friend of mine (thanks, frank) made a casual deck a while back and it was pretty mean, but mostly because none of us saw it coming. i'm not saying it'll ever be anything close to a tier deck, but it probably has some rogue potential

    basically, you drop a 12/12 trample, annihilator 2 on turn three (or faster) without giving any indication of what's coming.

    i know the format is swarming with creature kill and removal, but if we can build these cards into a control shell, could we make it work?

    maybe something like:

    4x Academy Researchers
    4x Eldrazi Conscription

    4x Force of Will
    4x Counterspell
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Impulse

    14x other cards

    22x lands

    running Mental Misstep helps our fear of 1cc white removal spells and Innocent Blood. we could run U/w for cards like Enlightened Tutor, Academy Rector, and Tallowisp (though i recocgnize that the latter two need a lot of working around in order to run ideally). we could run more auras (ugh, card disadvantage, i know) in order to make room for Arcanum Wings. there are probably other auras that we could easily attach to the researchers as well, even if the conscription is probably our best target.

    these are all ideas that will probably result in a really bad deck, but i'm wondering what the larger community thinks. i think it could be pretty fun. that being said, i've given the actual decklist very little thought, and wanted to see if anyone else had ever toyed with such a list before putting one together myself.

    thoughts?
    Last edited by sillyandrew; 05-11-2011 at 02:44 PM. Reason: added card tags and fixed typos.

  2. #2

    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    Greater Auramancy? Diplomatic Immunity

    Just a bit of food for thought.

  3. #3

    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    I played a fun deck like that for the more casual crowd. I would suggest Iridescent Drake to recycle your combo should they kill your Researcher and also Lightning Greaves.
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  4. #4
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    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    Sort of like budget Show & Tell/Emrakul.

  5. #5
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    Yeah, Emrakul / SnT is probably just better.

    Advantages:
    - opponent does not get to drop something for free
    - immune to Karakas

    Disadvantages:
    - vulnerable to Swords and Pathes
    - vulnerable to Krosan Grip
    - Annihilator 2 won't win the game in one attack and enough even 2 attacks are not a guaranteed win if a Goyf takes some of the damage and the opponent sacrifices 4 lands
    - can't be accelerated by Ancient Tomb

  6. #6
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    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    I second the Greater Auramancy idea, if you're using Academy rectors this is even better since you have 8 ways for it to get into play, and helps minimize the vulnerability to targeted removal. You may also want to look into:
    Nomad Mythmaker
    Sovereigns of Lost Alara
    The nomad gives you a back-up plan if they kill the Aura, and the Sovereigns of Lost alara let you sneak in a conscription (or another conscription) on an unblocked attacker..Sovereigns ability doesnt target, either, so shroud wont get in the way..
    Last edited by Jenni; 05-11-2011 at 07:25 PM. Reason: fixed a typo.
    Playing Legacy: Landstill ProsperAtog ArmageddonStax

  7. #7

    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    You're welcome =P, but yeah, I stopped playing it because the deck around the combo was awful and instead of being a blue/white enchantress-y deck it was a blue-white "do I have researchers + eldrazi in my hand on turn 3? No? Shit." deck. It felt really unfair when it worked and slow and dumb when it didn't haha.

    But in a control shell, I really like it. Especially with greater auramancy. I think Arcanum Wings is pretty boss-mode as it lets your drawn eldrazi enchants be played for 3 at instant speed.

    There's also that like, 4 mana--return all enchantments from your graveyard to play card (I think it's 4, forgot what it's called), so if any of them ever get lost to a STP or a grip you can just flood them back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao View Post
    Yeah, Emrakul / SnT is probably just better.

    Advantages:
    - opponent does not get to drop something for free
    - immune to Karakas

    Disadvantages:
    - vulnerable to Swords and Pathes
    - vulnerable to Krosan Grip
    - Annihilator 2 won't win the game in one attack and enough even 2 attacks are not a guaranteed win if a Goyf takes some of the damage and the opponent sacrifices 4 lands
    - can't be accelerated by Ancient Tomb
    In regards to the disadvantages, all of those are true, but if a goyf ate the first hit and a second goyf ate the second hit and they sacced 4 lands, there's a ~80%-100% scoop rate associated with that situation when you have no land, no creatures, and are staring at a control deck that's fully untapped. Furthermore, it would actually take like, 2 4/5 goyfs to not die, then enough land draws to get them back into the game, then their remaining whatever win condition, all without any disruption from you.

    So I mean, while you don't technically win if they somehow have 2 huge blockers 2 turns in a row, the likelihood of you losing is extraordinarily small and would require like, the most hail-mary type shit to occur in order to come back. Path to Exile would probably be the best removal to run in this deck since you don't particularly care if they have land (imo) and I feel like, swinging > they declare blockers > you path it and trample over for 12 is basically GG.

    If you run Arcanum Wings, you can add more creatures, it doesn't really matter what they are, hell you could even add in Soltari Footsoldiers or something, suntail hawks..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenni View Post
    I second the Greater Auramancy idea, if you're using Academy rectors this is even better since you have 8 ways for it to get into play, and helps minimize the vulnerability to targeted removal. You may also want to look into:
    Nomad Mythmaker
    Sovereigns of Lost Alara
    The nomad gives you a back-up plan if they kill the Aura, and the Sovereigns of Lost alara let you sneak in a conscription (or another conscription) on an unblocked attacker..Sovereigns ability doesnt target, either, so shroud wont get in the way..
    I tried both of those cards in the initial version of the deck and found them to be incredibly slow, but the deck also had no real means to safely utilize them. Many times it would be something like Turn 3: academy researchers + conscription, EOT it dies, Turn 4: Nomad, Turn 5: Tap nomad and put it on nomad, Then turn 6: Nomad dies before I swing.

    Sovereigns weren't awful just again, very slow. Realistically in the above situation it'd be better than nomad, but I didn't really like it in general.

    I think Nomad could work if the deck runs a lot of creatures (in which case I probably wouldn't run Arcanum Wings, I'd focus on being able to recur it / cheat it into play onto the creatures) with control back up.

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    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kich867 View Post
    I tried both of those cards in the initial version of the deck and found them to be incredibly slow, but the deck also had no real means to safely utilize them. Many times it would be something like Turn 3: academy researchers + conscription, EOT it dies, Turn 4: Nomad, Turn 5: Tap nomad and put it on nomad, Then turn 6: Nomad dies before I swing.

    Sovereigns weren't awful just again, very slow. Realistically in the above situation it'd be better than nomad, but I didn't really like it in general.

    I think Nomad could work if the deck runs a lot of creatures (in which case I probably wouldn't run Arcanum Wings, I'd focus on being able to recur it / cheat it into play onto the creatures) with control back up.
    True, Sovereigns is rather slow. Nomad seems like it might do well with control and Greater auramancy backing it up though, less likely to just die, and once the enchantment is on him he gains shroud helping survive until he gets to attack. For him to be really effective running more creatures might be a good idea though, and with something like eldrazi conscription the creature itself doesn't matter too much, even an Aether Figment becomes reasonably powerful with a conscription dropped on him, though finding creatures that work better with the enchantment plan might be better if you decide to go that route, I don't really know of any more useful aura-based creatures off the top of my head though. Except Aura Gnarlid and Bramble Elemental though I don't think they would be worth adding green for.
    Playing Legacy: Landstill ProsperAtog ArmageddonStax

  9. #9

    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    How is this better than stifle + dreadnaught? It costs 1 more mana, each of the cards is useless without the other (stifle is useful) and dreadnaught is easily tutorable with trinket mage. The cards are also useless if drawn in multiples. Trample is probably better than annihilator 2. The researcher is vulnerable to lightning bolt where dreadnaught is not. He will also gain you 2 life instead of 12 if hit by swords.

    Stifle + dreadnaught seems much better, except for the dollar price of the cards.

    I think this is a more direct comparison than Emrakul.

    Sorry man.

  10. #10

    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    if you REALLY want to play this deck, i would add academy rector.

  11. #11

    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
    How is this better than stifle + dreadnaught? It costs 1 more mana, each of the cards is useless without the other (stifle is useful) and dreadnaught is easily tutorable with trinket mage. The cards are also useless if drawn in multiples. Trample is probably better than annihilator 2. The researcher is vulnerable to lightning bolt where dreadnaught is not. He will also gain you 2 life instead of 12 if hit by swords.

    Stifle + dreadnaught seems much better, except for the dollar price of the cards.

    I think this is a more direct comparison than Emrakul.

    Sorry man.
    Given that this isn't a stiflenaught thread or a stiflenaught comparison thread, I don't really get what the point of this was. It's a different deck, it's not strictly better than this deck, they're different.

    I agree with the sentiments of putting cheap creatures with evasion into the deck.

    Perhaps the 2 mana 1/1 blue infect creature that's unblockable? That would outright win in one swing.

  12. #12
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    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    Consider Arcanum Wings. It adds a card to your combo, but you could abuse cards like Silhana Ledgewalker and Slippery Bogle to accomplish your mission.

    I think a setup like this would be fairly good:

    4x Slippery Bogle
    4x Academy Researchers

    4x Arcanum Wings
    4x Eldrazi Conscription
    4x Mental Misstep
    4x Force of Will
    4x Brainstorm
    2x Enlightened Tutor
    2x Worldly Tutor
    4x Stifle
    4x Swords to Plowshares


    20 land mix of fetches/duels/basics/Wasteland

    You're in 2 colors with a heavy tempo-like build that can combo off as early as turn 3 with Arcanum Wings/Eldrazi Conscription. Having Force of Will and Mental Misstep available will make the Researchers route a little more resilient to removal, too.

    Good luck man...look into Arcanum Wings!

    EDIT: btw, this wasn't my original idea, a friend from another site cooked this up...I'll do a little research on what he ended up with for a list.
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    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
    if you REALLY want to play this deck, i would add academy rector.
    In an early incarnation of my Kor Spiritdancer Deck I played the Eldrazi Conscription - Academy Rector "combo."

    I cut it because it didn't work well with the deck as I could not hard cast / trick into play if drawn.

    Some things I learned:

    Put in to play abilities regarding auras do not target. Auras only target on casting. So you can safely play Eldrazi Conscription on a completely shrouded creatures.

    Academy Rectors will make any aggro deck think. They can no longer freely plow through. ...it sound like COMPLETE JANK, and it may be, but if I were playing blue, and Academy I would test Jump. It might surprise a flying attacker, and it will keep your opponent guessing. Too funny.

    Edit: Also, not that great, Auratouched Mage

  14. #14
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    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    Hmm, how about
    Cards]Looter Il-Kor[/Cards]?
    Also, isn't slippery bogle unable to be enchanted?
    I'd say that another route you could take the combo is with Tallowisp
    Something like
    Engine:
    4 Tallowisp

    Beatsticks:
    x Creatures that don't like getting blocked


    Toolbox:
    1 Arcanum Wings
    1 Eldrazi Conscription
    1 Threads of Disloyalty
    x More Toolbox

    Arcane:
    x Spiritual Visit
    x Veil of Secrecy
    x Psychic Puppetry
    x Eye of Nowhere
    x Consuming Vortex
    x Candle's Glow

    Classic Control/Tempo:
    0|4 Daze
    0|4 Mental Misstep
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    etc
    feefox: each card in hand!!!!
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  15. #15

    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    Bogle only has trollshroud, you're free to enchant him. I like that approach to the deck.

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    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo


  17. #17
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    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    The main problem with this plan is that it's very dead against Abrupt Decay (and you need a lot of countermagic to defend against even stuff like Lightning Bolt in response to the EtB trigger, Stifle, Fatal Push and whatnot). The deck is pretty all-in, without much of a back-up plan.

    I understand that it's high risk, high reward but you're probably better off casting True-name Nemesis for that manacost and slapping a Rancor onto it.
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  18. #18

    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    There are so many good answers to this combo you'd probably have to run questionable unorthodox cards to support it for example misdirection.

    I really would love to see this deck work, but I'm not seeing it until more cards are printed to support it.

  19. #19

    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    Not that it's a better idea, per se, but something I wondered about is using Auratouched Mage/Boonweaver Giant with Dubious Challenge.

  20. #20
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    Re: [Idea] Academy Researchers Combo

    I guess you can undercost creature stealing by one with a card like Captivating Glance, which falls into the Dominating Licid section of the unplayed cards. There's probably also some infinite combo with Pemmin's Aura (probably with Magus of the Candelabra). If you use Show and Tell, you'll always have the option to dump an enchant creature onto the battlefield, and then choose what you're attaching it to....which is a very long workaround for putting a Control Magic effect on an already present, hostile Emrakul since you'd have avoided the stack.

    In short, I don't think there's a real deck here...and your main plan of Academy Researchers seems like more of a backup plan. Ignoring Bogles for a moment, the most powerful thing you can do with local enchantments would theoretically be to tutor them into a graveyard and then reverse engineer actual Hakim, Loreweaver by his constituent parts, in an attempt to make them efficient enough for legacy. The two pieces are Nomad Mythmaker (nice find @Jenni) and the Crown of the Ages-like effect (i.e. getting the right enchant on the right perm), which currently looks like Simic Guildmage. On the plus side so far you've got creature targets for your local enchantments, creatures that synergize with those local enchantments, and this loose idea of undercosting by looping through the graveyard. None of this is really competitive at legacy speeds, but technically you've got a PW tailor-made for you in Ajani, Mentor of Heroes, particularly when you consider its implications with Simic Guildmage.

    I'm not going to scour the card pool for some legacy costed card draw engine here, but one might exist (Enchantress effects usually have shroud, and you're not necessarily planning on casting). The one-drop slot is going to be a more pressing problem, and I don't think diluting the deck with more mana dorks than the playset of Noble Hierarch is going to be a high yield endeavor (again, unless you have some specific way that you're planning to abuse Magus of the Candelabra - Serra's Sanctum doesn't really work in this deck sadly).

    I'd start the deck with things you can actually do, rather than an uncastable local enchant like Eldrazi Conscription. We know the colors are majority UWG, so we're playing Hierarch. If we want the whole Hakim shenanigans our other 8 creatures are solved (Simic Guildmage, Nomad Mythmaker). Payoff cards do exist like Ajani, Hanna, Ship's Navigator, draw/discard (Careful Study, Chart a Course), and maybe...maybe Enchantress. The question remains though: What local enchantments are you going to cast/recur, and how do they disrupt opponents - this is where Eldrazi Conscription is unplayable (and by proxy Academy Researchers); the plan is neither good enough, disruptive enough, nor does it create significant value.

    Let's take another moment here, looking past Bogles, and also looking beyond NyxFit (aka sac-Rector) - what huge mana shortcuts can Nomad Mythmaker actually use? Powerful, uncastable "Enchant Player" cards from Amonkhet block are useless here. The only one really worth having requires manlands: Spawning Grounds; which is like a really janky way of building your own Sandwurm Convergence - the salient point here is that we know manlands can be key to changing how Nomad Mythmaker can operate, particularly with Simic Guildmage. Now there is this idea that you want an amount of Dryad Arbor, but would likely prefer lands that revert to non-creature permanents; some nice color-producing options exist here. It is doubtful [despite manlands] that Standstill will have room to fit in this deck based on the nonsense you're trying to enact. I don't think you actually ever try and go big and run Spawning Grounds, but we begin to see the value of Enchant Land, recursion, and moving it...the card pool however does not realistically allow for ruining people's day by discarding negative effect Enchant Land, necro to your manland, swap to opponent's land (note the wording of Simic Guildmage).

    Honestly given the starting point Noble/Simic/Nomad/Ajani/potential land shenanigans, you have to come back to playable legacy costs. One of the best things you can do would be to cheese Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth....in your UWG deck, that doesn't run black spells....just so we can cast and recur Spreading Algae. Why would you do that? I don't know - but you could, and it would cost 1 mana....and you could do a hard reset with Nomad putting it onto your own manland which you tap, just to get Algae back in your hand. This would all be better than cheating out Conscription onto removal bait that plays right into an opponent's gameplan anyways, because basically every deck out there is not equipped to lose every land it ever taps. I don't know what else you are supposed to do between this Kudzu-like gameplan of Algae spam which justifies the presence of Nomad Mythmaker as you fumble towards an endgame where Ajanni and Simic Guildmage team up to make things huge....but I think this has to be your shell. Sinkhole or Loam would be a vastly better way to blow up every land ever, but this list will certainly do something similar with largely unplayed cards....and I dunno, maybe you have enough room to run some amount/composition of Brainstorm, Stifle, Wasteland, FoW, StP, Daze, and still do something unique with Nomad Mythmaker??

    The issue you're going to run into with ideas like these is that legacy is too fast for you to do this without falling back on on FoW and the 16 total blue cards you'll need to run. Most of these cards though, including the most important Algae/Urborg component are modern legal - and that is a place where you don't have to fall back on blue this heavily. In modern you'd get to run without blue (save for a a land or two + Hierarch to activate Simic Guildmage), and actually get to use Urborg for mana. Once you're in that creative space, you're going to realize that Orzhov Charm is hilarious, and you can even run Death's Shadow and maybe win some very strange games.

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