Current build 6/29/2011:
8 Island
2 Academy Ruins
4 Rishadan Port
4 Petrified Field
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Propaganda
3 Tangle Wire
4 Static Orb
3 Relic Barrier
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
2 Force Spike
4 Preordain
4 Master of Etherium
SideBoard
4 Washout
3 Submerge
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Hibernation
I feel weird putting this in new and developmental since Ive been playing this deck forever. A long, long time ago when I first found out that winter orb shuts off when its tapped I made a deck around it. It actually did quite well since it was real good against goblins. Later Goyf/kgrip/tombstalker got printed and I had to shelve my deck. In the last few years there have been quite a few cards printed that helped my cause. Also people have been playing stone forger a whole lot. Decks that play forger really like to untap lands every turn. I love the deck because my opponents usually want to jump out of a tall building by the end of the game. I think the deck could be good with just a little help. Heres my current list:
12 Island
4 Petrified Field
4 Rishadan Port
2 Academy Ruins
3 The Tabernacle at the Pendrell Vale
12 Islands sometimes feels like it's too few but I don't have anything with UU other than force so its probably fine. My nonbasics are important so petrified field helps me against wasteland. Ive actually had people try to mana screw me by wasting my field which is fine by me. I have more nonbasics than they have wastes. Port tightens down the lock after I play winter orb and relic barrier. Academy ruins is real good. Most decks only run one but I like running two. In addition to getting back artifacts after they get countered/destroyed it can recur tangle wire. This is absolutely brutal under a winter orb. Academy ruins is usually instantly wasted so running two is pretty good. Tabernacle is obviously real good with orb in play. Its legendary and doesnt produce mana so I think running four would be overkill.
4 Lodestone Golem
Lodestone Golem is my primary wincondition. Ive tried a bunch of different things but I like him the best. He's sort of a lockpiece on his own which gives him some protection against removal. He recurs with academy ruins. He costs four which is actually pretty cheap. 5 power gets there pretty quickly. In fact lodestone is good enough on his own I find myself just playing him without a lock in place and just beatdown for the win. I once won a game where my winter orbs got extirpated by playing golem with tangle wires and counter backup.
4 Relic Barrier
4 Winter Orb
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tangle Wire
Well winter orb is pretty much the whole point of the deck. Relic barrier shuts off winter orb. I know its narrow but Ive yet to find a better solution. Icy manipulator costs 4 which is too much under a winter orb. Sometimes it randomly taps a dreadnought which is hilarious. It can also do more than nothing against affinity and those trendy MUD decks. Relic of progenitus is there mostly to keep goyf small. It's actually pretty good at that. It can also make tombstalker real hard to cast. And of course its real good against dredge/loam/reanimator. Since it cycles its never quite dead so I don't mind running it maindeck at all. So many decks run goyf anyways. Tangle wire is pretty weak in other decks but its a house here. By itself its pretty unimpressive although sometimes it can timewalk. It has massive synergy with winter orb, propaganda and tabernacle. It recurs with academy ruins which is pretty sick and a nifty alternate win condition.
4 Propaganda
I don't know what to say about propaganda without sounding like I'm just stating the obvious. Against decks that attack in teams its a house. Against decks that run just a couple big creatures, not so much. With winter orb in play its pretty much going to be a moat. Also you're not allowed to pay for it in their upkeep. Alot of people think your allowed to do this for some reason. Alot of people are fucking dumb.
2 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
4 Impulse
4 Mental Misstep
Echoing truth is a catch all against random crap. Its my favorite bounce. I'd consider wipe away but the UU is kind of ugly. Mental misstep use to be mana leak. I like Misstep since it counters vial on the draw. Misstep is quality because under orb your opponent is probably just going to try to play 1 mana spells. I think I'm basically at the lower bound of blue cards needed for force to work but I usually don't have a problem finding things to pitch. I like impulse as my source of card quality. I dont run any shuffle effects so something like brainstorm is unplayable here. Digging four deep is just real good. Ive never been disappointed with impulse.
SB:
4 Chalice of the void
4 Trinisphere
4 Pithing Needle
3 Hydroblast/Rebuild/Hibernation
Well chalice is pretty good because I dont run alot of one drops. I use to play 3sphere main but lodestone made it so it was unnecessary. Its still real good out of the board especially against decks that are unaffected by winter orb. Pithing needle stops all sorts of crap that hurts this deck, ee/planeswalkers/wasteland/aether vial etc etc. Hydroblast because moon effects are kind of painful. Its not the best answer because decks that pack moon effects also tend to pack chalice of the void. Rebuild is obviously real good against affinity but its main use is to clear away any chalce@2. It can also randomly save you against board sweepers. It also gets rid of artifact mana which can be a total pain Hibernation because elves tend to kick my teeth in with their plan of making 1000's of mana without even needing help from their lands.
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As far as matchups are concerned I'm not quite sure, even though Ive played the deck alot during my lifetime. Tribal aggro is going to be good as long as that tribe isn't elves. I don't think Ive lost a match to a stone forger deck yet, although Ive lost a game here and there because jitte just gets there sometimes. Ive played against landstill type decks and just shut them down with orb. Other times Ive gotten completely blown out by recurring EE and planeswalkers. Zoo is probably about even, sometimes I shut them down and win, sometimes they just race to the finish and kill me. When I win my life total is very often less than seven. I want to say countertop is favorable, but I think it could be due to the fact that counter top is tough to play (alot of people fuck it up) and countertop players are not use to facing this deck. I have had quite a bit of success against countertop type decks. In reality its probably unfavorable since my curve is easily stopped by countertop. Ive had alot of success against storm combo, especially game two/three when I bring in additional hate.........
So Id like to hear your ideas about the deck. If you take it for a spin on mws that would be real cool. I understand the deck is expensive but its actually on the cheap side if you run alternatives to Force and Tabernacle.
And before "why play this over stax/mud/hulkflash"? Because I love this deck. I'm probably playing it at gp (If I can get to gp).
Thanks
clavio
Last edited by clavio; 06-29-2011 at 07:09 PM.
You're going to hate to hear that they recently errated Winter Orb to where it is no longer abuseable.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=159277
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
How did I miss that? Fucking thing sucks!
Guess Im going to try parallax tide shenanigans. :-/
So, why didn't the errata trinisphere? And I thought power level erratas were not being done any more.
Anyways, why no sphere of resistance?
I will make use of every tool that fate presents.
That's exactly why they fixed it. Nowhere on the card does it say shuts off if tapped. It's extremely counter-intuitive so they just went with the wording on the card with no "oracle fix". That's the opposite of power-level errated-straight card text.Originally Posted by perm
*Howling Mine and others have been reprinted with the "untapped on clause" so it was only winter orb that got the change.
Its symmetrical, I never want to see it before I have winter orb and a way to shut it off(fml). Its pretty much going to be inferior to tangle wire every time unless Im facing...tendrils.
I'm pretty bummed out about this errata. Like really totally and completely bummed. Ive been playing this deck since I was 15. I'm 21 now. Think about that! That shit is crazy!. I'm going to try out -4worb -4relic barrier +4parallax tide +4 stifle. See how that goes. Probably going to be crappy. Alternatively I could try -4 worb +4 static orb. Its worth a shottttttt
the original printing of howling mine and winter orb have the same rules: Continuous artifact, which meant the artifact's effect was shut off when it became tapped. So it was part of the rules, they just took out artifact supertypes and transferred the effects to rules text
I will make use of every tool that fate presents.
OKOKOK. Howling Mine et al. have been reprinted with the wording about how it gets shut off. Winter Orb never received such a reprint. As a result there is no winter orb ever that says it shuts off when it is tapped. Yes, it is a "continuous" artifact but this hasn't mattered for over a decade. The card now does what the card text says it should do. Which is apparently what wizards is going for these days. It is also why hulk flash happened.
Static Orb still seems good to go.
OK so I tried static orb and I actually like it alot! Ive only played a few games on cockatrice but its real solid so far. It makes tangle wires way better since they cant just keep tapping their creatures and dumb things like equipment while slowly getting back mana. I can also survive a bit better under static orb than winter orb until I can grab relic barrier.
Not too sure about main deck relic of progenitus anymore. Its good sometimes but it just does nothing too much(and not in the null rod sort of way). I think I would rather have some sort of broader effect. Mana leak perhaps? Maybe some more draw? Ensnaring Bridge?
clavio taps Island.
clavio taps Academy Ruins.
clavio taps Petrified Field.
clavio puts Tangle Wire into play from graveyard.
clavio puts Tangle Wire from table on top of his library.
clavio draws 1 card(s).
clavio taps Island.
Bren: gg
clavio: gg
I know it's not exactly meaningful, but I've been tearing up MWS with my recent build:
12 Island
2 Academy Ruins
4 Rishadan Port
3 Petrified Field
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Blinkmoth Well
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Echoing Truth
4 Propaganda
3 Tangle Wire
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Static Orb
4 Preordain
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Paradox Haze
sb
4 Pithing Needle
4 Washout
4 Null Rod
3 Submerge
----
I dropped Relic Barrier in favor of Blinkmoth Well. With Static Orb it is less necessary to have a dedicated tapper than with Winter Orb. It's nice, but I'm able to function quite well without a tapper for a while. Also I can run null rod in my sideboard with out clashing with anything.
I'm also running 24 (mana producing) lands now. It's probably better that way.
Only running 3 Petrified Fields. It's been fine.
I dropped impulse in favor of perordain. A two land hand with an impulse can be pretty sketchy. A two land hand with preordain is...fine. It gets missteped once in a while but it's not that big of a deal.
Paradox haze is my 60th card. It can be pretty backbreaking, but it's probably too cute to keep in. tabernacling someone twice a turn? Pretty good. I really didn't know what to run in that spot. Some ideas I had were Icy Manipulator, Mishra's Helix, Tolaria West, Noggle Hedge-mage, Floodbringer, Mana Short, Tideforce Elemental. I wanted it to be something that can steal games but not something that I want to see in my opening hand. In reality it should probably just be tangle wire number four or echoing truth number three.
As far as sideboard is concerned I've been happy. Wash Out is cool because it can bounce progenitus. Naming green against elves is pretty cool.
As far as losses go I've had zoo beat me up some when they killed me just before I was able to lock them the fuck out. Submerge is obviously really good against them. Also storm combo just sort of wins sometimes.
Hmm, why no ancient tomb. They would seem better to me than petrified field, you aren't the fastest deck around and they would really help.
Arcane Laboratory should be in your board for the storm matchup, they literally can't win with it on the table.
I think you should test out Esperzoa in the echoing truth and paradox haze slots. They beat for 4, fly and can help you recycle Tangle wires. You will probably have to run some artifact lands to help support them but having a clock is always nice.
What this deck lacks, now that your Winter Orb-Plan shifted to Static Orb is a better finisher than Lodestone Golem. I hate to say this, but Jace, the Mind Sculptor is the best finisher Mono-U Control has right now, and will hopefully ever have. He's too much of a powerhouse to not to be played, he isn't protected by Propaganda though.
Some random ideas:
Gigadrowse taps almost everything.
Repeal will bounce and cantrip. Might be better than Echoing Truth, since you lose no hand card.
Why we don't merge this prision deck with the Dread-Orb Deck?? wow we will have a full orb deck!
// Lands
2 [TSP] Academy Ruins
6 [NPH] Island (1)
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
// Creatures
4 [JGC] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [TSP] Fathom Seer
4 [NPH] Spellskite
// Spells
4 [NPH] Torpor Orb
4 [U] Illusionary Mask
2 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
2 [10E] Icy Manipulator
4 [5E] Winter Orb
4 [TE] Static Orb
4 [NE] Tangle Wire
4 [LG] Relic Barrier
However all the deck is playable with 2 lands (double colorless), Phantom seer is good card advantage if played by mask and bounces tapped lands if we are under winter orb. Dreadnought is a fast closer protected with spellskite, so the deck can use control or combo strategy at the same time.
another card we can use is Eater of Days maybe in combo with Smokestack ( or Wire) if we haven't Torpor/mask
I found a pretty cool name for this deck:
"Roy Orbison"
Explanation for the slow-minded:
R(elic)OY ORB(pr)ISON
@Iare
I tried Ancient Tomb, It didn't really work. I very often stabilize at single digit life totals so losing 8+ life usually meant bad things. I don't want to drop Petrified Field since my nonbasics are so important to my game plan.
Arcane lab is really good against storm combo but Null rod is going to be a big help in matches like affinity, mud and belcher. Maybe I don't need help in those matches.
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@ Radiant
You are probably right. I thought about posting reasons not to run Jace but he's probably going to be a stronger win condition. He has the bounce creature ability so not being protected by propaganda should not matter much. I don't think Lodestone Golem is necessarily a weakness, but I'll see if Jace makes the deck stronger.
I really like gigadrowse. I tried running it with scepter but it was too many slots. I bet it will be much stronger in the static orb version of the deck than the winter orb version.
New List:
8 Island
2 Academy Ruins
4 Rishadan Port
4 Petrified Field
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
3 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Propaganda
3 Tangle Wire
4 Static Orb
3 Relic Barrier
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
2 Force Spike
4 Preordain
4 Master of Etherium
SideBoard
4 Washout
3 Submerge
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Hibernation
--------------
I decided to go back to Relic Barrier. Blinkmoth Well is crap.
I'm playing 10 counters now. Once you show an opponent force spike they will play around it for the rest of the match. I don't play enough islands to support daze.
I'm playing ratchet bomb now. It can deal with just about anything, including Jace. It gives me a chance to stabilize against really aggressive decks and recurs with academy ruins.
I'm running Master of Etherium as my kill condition now. It's actually an idea I took from Stephen Menendian. I was a little short on cards that pitched to force without Moe. He recurs with academy ruins and is almost always a 4/4 or better.
I noticed the new card buried ruins. I'm not sure if its better than academy ruins in this deck but it is certainly less legendary.
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