You're right! Somehow managed to miss 4 ponders.Originally Posted by potatodavid
Besides pyroblast/REB I'm not seeing how UWr is better than esper. I know there is is lightning bolt but most UWr list don't run more than 2 unless it's jeskai delver builds.
Esper just offers so much. Thoughtsieze/IoK is helps with the combo match ups. Lingering Souls is still solid after mircles. SB options you get Notion Thief, E.Plague, Z. Persecution, d. Edict, perish, fatal push, duress.
Guess there's always blood moon and grim lavamancer.
Red gets you:
Blood Moon
Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Fiery Confluence
From the Ashes
Izzet Staticaster
Lightning Bolt
Pyroblast
Pyroclasm
Red Elemental Blast
Sulfur Elemental
Wear // Tear
I think do think Esper Blade has better diversified tools. With Esper Blade, you can be more proactive with discards. Jeskai Blade has to be more reactive to Pierce, Snare Counterspell, and Force of Will.
Of these:
Unplayable:
Blood Moon, Chandra, From the Ashes, Fiery Confluence, Sulfur Elemental
Replaceable in esper:
Izzet Staticaster - Zealous Persecution, Toxic Deluge
Lightning Bolt - Fatal Push, Path to Exile
Pyroclasm - Zealous Persecution, Toxic Deluge
This leaves Pyroblast and the real reason to play red right now in our Deathrite-infested metagame: Grim Lavamancer.
Grim Lavamancer should have been on the list. I agree with your assessment though. Admittedly, some of the cards in my list were pretty egregious. :p
In general, I think Esper Blade is in parity with Jeskai Blade post-board against fair decks, and Esper is better against unfair decks. I haven't came up with a Jeskai build I like yet. I am currently on a modified Japanese Tasigur list.
It's pretty simple, the proven formula is to play 4 snapcasters, play 6-8 removal, and Grim. This puts you in a position to crush creature decks, and still able to board in more than enough to be favored against combo decks because you have all the snaps.
Why are you putting Blood Moon in the unplayable category?
So this is my list.
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Lingering Souls
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosive
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtsieze
1 Counterspell
1 Intuition
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Force of Will
2 Islands
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Irrigated Farmland
4 Flooded Stand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flat
1 Karakas
1 Creeping Tarpit
SB
1 Flusterstorm
1 Arcane Laboratory
1 Chill
1 Perish
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Disenchant
1 Humility
1 Narhiri, the Lithomancer
1 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Surgical Extraction
I tried to combine the JPN Tasigur and Shahaeen's old esper list. Feels like main deck has game vs almost anything. Lots combo SB cards. Rest of SB is for all the sultai decks and one card for burn. Burn burn just hits so hard.
Depending on size of event I would swap out chill for SoFF. 5 basics also seems correct. Half the games you only need a swamp and some Plains and just feed all the blue cards to FoW.
Recently dropped from 3 Snapcasters to 2. Of all the cards it's the one I wanted to see the least. Just don't feel right in esper with lingering souls and thoughtsieze bout being sorcery and lingering souls has flashback.
This list is quite different from what people normally expect from Stoneblade but I was curious if anyone has experimented more with this more aggressive variant that topped an SCG a couple months ago.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/576265#online
Looking at the original list it looked very soft to Miracles/Countertop but alas, that deck is no longer around. I tested it a bit and while the power ceiling felt low to the ground I definitely felt there was some potential for the list post-top. I played around with some of the cards and came up with this:
4 Mausoleum Wonderer
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of the Thraben
2 Spell Queller
2 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Meddling Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Serra Avenger
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra[/cards]
3 Plains
4 Island
2 Karakas
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Back to Basics
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Meddling Mage
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Selfless Spirit
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Rest in Peace
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Containment Priest
Sideboard is a mess but the deck has worked pretty well for me, particularly against combo decks. It felt a little weak pre-board but felt particularly strong post-board once you start bringing in silver bullets against the deck you're facing. My biggest issue has been Goyf and occasionally with Young Pyromancers running away with the game. I don't know if this should get a separate thread altogether but I was curious if others have had success with this kind of list.
I'm not sure Sword of Fire and Ice should be another equipment or if it should be something else altogether; against Grixis Delver I found myself preferring Jitte and in other situations it's simply too slow.
So overall I like your list and it's very similar to the list I'm putting together but I have a few differences. But I do have a few questions;
1. I'm not super sold on Irrigated Farmland and Creeping Tarpit in the same deck. It would be pretty bad to have both of those lands in your opening hand and have to mull the because of the etb tapped clause. But try it and report!
2. I've always wanted to try Tasigur in my blade lists but I have too much Karakas in my meta :( I just think he's too mana intensive for a card that can be easily removed.
3. If you're going to run engineered explosives in the main, I'd recommend taking either tarpit/farmland out and replacing them with an Academy Ruins
4. Is there a reason you're running so many basics in your deck? The standard basics are 2 Island, 1 Plains, 1 Swamp. And that allows you to cast everything in your deck with those basics except for some double white sideboard cards. Is there a lot of bloodmoon/wasteland in your meta that you're afraid of?
Anyways, those are just my opinions but if that's working for you then keep doing what you're doing and please report!!
"The enemy is getting too close! Quick! Inflate the toad!"
1 To be honest I'd go one each of Irrigated Farmland and a Fetid Pull if I were not running a main deck Supreme Verdict. That said. I made the decision to run both ETB tapped lands though it might not make a ton of sense but because I wanted to expand on my mana colors availability. Cut the 2 wastelands I keep seeing a lot of list runs. And doing all this dropping from 23 to 22 lands. I figured having a starting hand with a waisteland was similar to having a tap land. I feel as if esper stoneblade doesn't really want to play a tempo game early. We want the mana we can use right away. And since you only have two wasteland drawing one late game is only really effective against something like lands trying to stage off. I'd rather draw Farmland later and use it to find another answer. Of course you could add why not another tundra? And I'll reply for me online sure tundra is like 5$ but irl Farmland is 5$ and 3rd tundra would cost me another 100+. Late game Farmland is arguably better if you have enough lands. And mid game could always fetch EoT. Which leaves you with that turn one/two tax etb tapped.
Again it's just my answer.
2 about tasigur. Online he is doing very well. But we all know D&T isn't exactly represented. That said you could just counteract my first response and just run wasteland for apposing Karakas. Objectively he is an easy card to side out.
So yes he isn't great against opponents karakas. He does offer things stoneblade does lack. A fast clock. I've rode quite a few games were I drop him early as a beat stick while protecting him. He also has a pretty strong card advantage engine built in. He cost six to cast but never ideally cost one black mana. The turn you drop him you can sculpt your yard and pay extra four mana to gain a card. A lot of times it's the very card you want. So even against say Karakas. He becomes a 5 mana draw card a turn. Though facing karakas his cost is likely to go up every turn. With all of that said. If your playing against a non karakas deck. He is a beast most cases I had one equipped against mircles who had two active mentors and top engine. Outraced him with batterskull and SoFF equipped. I gained 10 life a turn untap all my mana. Countered or used mana to draw a card. Blocked 10 more. Him equipped with just SOFF alone is just so much card advantage. Ultimately he is a Bad Dig through time replacement but on a stick. I like that value.
3 again tarpit stays in main because I'm main deck S.Verdict. It's a win con combo. No verdict I'm going $$ permit duals which isn't case so we go back to Fetid Pools using Farmland argument. For academy ruins. Colorless mana is really really bad in esper. I'd rather have wasteland. I know this is a blade deck but you don't need equipment or EE.
EE is just one of a full handful of tools we have to deal with thing. It shouldn't make or break us if we lose one or all the artifact pieces in deck. I've gotten close to 150 games online while making this list. Deck does have a lot of moving parts especially when your siding in say Narhiri. It can get overwhelming trying not to time out. A.Ruins doesn't fit our game plan being practical. Though on paper I fell for it too it looks like it makes sense. Auto include. Decks like RUG lands and mud can run A.Ruins easy they have extra mana and less things to spend mana on. We don't have that luxury.
4 Even though blue is the main color of the deck. It really doesn't play that way. It's more of a BW deck that has some blue cantrips and FoW backed by some blue utility. A lot of games I'm looking to grab a Plains first if I have FoW active.
Odds are your gonna be up against DRS and plowing is one of best answers. Beyond that thoughtsieze is almost always better to play than ponder unless you need to dig for land. Now to the point. I picked 5 basics because it covers everyspell main deck and SB to be played with out non basic. I never need more than two blue because both Jace or counterspell main. Two Plains because I have S.Vedict main, counsels judgement and narhiri SB. And one swamp because none of my spells cost double black. The most common way I found losing games were to decks that taxed your mana. With delver on the rise. Most lists runs not only wasteland but forego therapy and use stifle. Having extra basics help that battle. Lands went away from main deck port replaced by ghost quarter in some number or entirely. A lot of times there game plan is to tax your white sources. Nicfit wants to take advantage of most decks not running basics with veteran explorer/therapy. Having extra white source helps against all these senerios and there are so many more more I can add. D&T, bloodmoon, back to basics, price of progress etc. white spells is the business end of the deck. You'll even find that lone scrubland may be your most coveted land you own.
For me a starting hand like swamp and Plains with random blue card for FoW, a thoughtsieze and a plow plus say tasigur or any threat. I feel like I'm gonna win most games.
Just my rant. Sorry for the essay full of grammatical errors. I hope this helps answers your question and ultimately help with your build. For me this deck is ever evolving. I plan on taking it soon to local events. Enjoy.
With mircles being gone. I'd keep an eye on Grip of Phyersis. Mircles players gotta go somewhere and looks like we're getting the new influx of players.
Possibly even Conquerer's Flail with rise of high tide.
Last edited by Munchyman; 05-15-2017 at 12:08 AM.
Hello all,
I've recently made the switch from Punishing Jund to Esper Stoneblade, however i'm still trying to hammer out a final 60 in the maindeck.
My current list:
1 batterskull
1 jitte
1 engineered explosives
2 JTMS
4 SFM
3 Snapcaster mage
3 lingering souls
1 councils judgement
1 supreme verdict
2 ponder
2 thoughtseize
2 inquistion of koziliek
4 brainstorm
3 FoW
1 counterspell
2 daze
1 spell pierce
4 StPS
2 flooded strand
2 marsh flats
4 polluted delta
2 island
1 plains
1 swamp
1 scrubland
2 underground sea
3 tundra
1 karakas
3 mishra's Factory
I'm curious if anyone has any input on what should be changed. I was also considering removing the lingering souls and adding 2 baleful strix and a copy of painful truths. I know the dazes are not ideal, but i want to leave them in until i get a fourth copy of Fow. Are there any glaring mistakes i've made? Thanks in advance for the help.
Generally, without fast mana it just doesn't do anything.
Specifically, in this deck:
1. It cripples your own mana development even before you cast it because you have to find your own basics.
2. It blanks your brainstorms unless you also have a Stoneforge.
3. The only deck it's good against is lands, where it's worse than Rest in Peace by a wide margin.
What is Grip of Phyrexian? What do you mean by flux? Grip of Phyresis, which is terrifying but ultra narrow.
I doubt high tide will ever be played in high enough numbers to deserve its own dedicated sideboard slot.
All of this is just wrong. Most versions of this deck I've seen play just fine on mostly basics. There are tons of Delver decks and other 3-4 color piles with 0-2 basics, so its laughable to claim its only good vs lands. It doesn't matter how bad brainstorm is if your opponent is locked out.
Personally, I'd rather have Baleful Strix over Lingering Souls almost always. I want a high blue count so I actually have options when I discard.
Do not play Daze in this deck. Similarly, do not listen to anyone who tells you to play Daze in this deck.
Play 10 fetches. 23 lands is "safe", 22 lands is the most common. I don't think you can afford three colorless lands.
True-Name Nemesis is a hell of a card.
I honestly find Snapcaster a bit meh in these sorts of Stoneblade builds. I do like him a lot in the ones that play 7-8 removal spells.
You are looking at manabases and thinking they tell you the entire story of how the game plays out.
- For example, against Delver, if your 3-mana sorcery resolves, you're either still dead or were already going to win that game because you had 4 lands and they had no countermagic.
- Similarly, these 3-4 color piles run Thoughtseize, Deathrite Shaman, Abrupt Decay, and possibly even Force of Will. The gamestate where they care about it AND you get to make it AND it lives AND a better card would not also be good enough is exceedingly rare.
- Note that any deck that runs "mostly just fine on basics" doesn't care about Blood Moon.
Sorry some reason my iPhone has phyrexian save in auto correct. Grip of Phyresis. It's starting to look like a really good SB card.
Flux ment to type influx from miracles player base.
I've lost plenty of games against Delver decks having resolved 3-mana sorceries, this is an extreme oversimplification.
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