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Thread: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

  1. #1201
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobmans View Post
    Sower of Temptation seems cute to.

    Aside from this, as i am not to familiar with this deck, what's the strategy for removing Leyline of the Void when dropped in turn 0? Edit: specificly with the balustrade spy version.
    With Balustrade Spy, you don't. The Dryad Arbor version plays Nature's Claim and Reverent Silence.

  2. #1202
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobmans View Post
    Sower of Temptation seems cute to.

    Aside from this, as i am not to familiar with this deck, what's the strategy for removing Leyline of the Void when dropped in turn 0? Edit: specificly with the balustrade spy version.
    Sower isn't that good, because the card should have the "reshuffle" trigger, for that rare situations, where we can't kill directly when DRing Balustrade Spy. I just pointed out, that Blightsteel is better against S&T than Worldspine.

    Leyline & RiP: Just ignore them. You go fearless against these cards. If they have them, you lose.

    There is the possibility that we make a board like:

    1-2 Forest
    2 Fetch
    4 Dryad Arbor
    4 Reverent Silence
    3-4 Natures Claim

    Against specific hate like Leyline, we board out Balustrades, Blightsteel, and some other stuff. Problem would be, that we are very slow without DR-targets, so maybe cut 1 Forest and 2 Claims, and just play DR Targets here. =D
    Last edited by NecroYawgmoth; 03-19-2013 at 03:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells
    :16: - (See, now Erratic Explosion's a deck)
    Legendary Creature - Horror
    Haste, Hexproof, Double Strike, Trample
    Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells is indestructible.
    Permanents you control can't be sacrificed or copied.
    Whenever Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells attacks, defending player gets liver cancer (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
    13/13

  3. #1203

    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    I think it would be wise to think about running Faerie Macabre again in the main to combat the growing popularity of Tin Fins. It already has a wide application across the format, but it might be decent to consider.

  4. #1204
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    I think it would be wise to think about running Faerie Macabre again in the main to combat the growing popularity of Tin Fins. It already has a wide application across the format, but it might be decent to consider.
    At the risk of monopolizing the thread, I'll bite. Do you see Contagion/Shoal as the weakest part of the deck, worthy of sacrificing some measure of protection against Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze for the utility of Faerie Macabre (given a clear image of what to expect in your meta), or some other component? For all of its usefulness, Deathrite Shaman is still quite slow and surely something that we don't mind making our opponent slow down with.

  5. #1205

    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by RThomas- View Post
    At the risk of monopolizing the thread, I'll bite. Do you see Contagion/Shoal as the weakest part of the deck, worthy of sacrificing some measure of protection against Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze for the utility of Faerie Macabre (given a clear image of what to expect in your meta), or some other component? For all of its usefulness, Deathrite Shaman is still quite slow and surely something that we don't mind making our opponent slow down with.
    Well, with combo really all over the place right now and cards like Street Wraith and Phantasmagorian shoring up issues with Deathrite Shaman, Faerie Macabre can be really useful against other graveyard-based decks, with the obvious catalyst being Tin Fins.

    It's more of a meta call than anything else at this point.

  6. #1206

    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    So I took my LED-Spy deck along last night, and had a bash.
    I've not played LED-dredge at a game-night before, only ever online, so I was a bit anxious how it would go against blue.
    It did surprisingly well!, especially considering a few of the dudes there know which deck I usually play. LOL
    It was a bit of a poor turn out, but I got in 4 matches, won 3. Just a bit of fun, casual matches.

    The one I lost was to Elves-combo, who just raced me to plop down so many elves I couldn't do anything about it in both games. Man what a boring game when you sit and wait for 10-15 minutes as your opponent does an infini-combo of slow death.... yawn.
    Of the matches I won, two of them were against blue control (one was miracles i think, and the other a faerie-counter heavy thing) which surprised me big time, as they usually deny me playing any DR's at all. Luckily I drew LED in game 1 of both blue matches and ended up comboing out a Spy on turn 2 or 3 both times, after Therapy got a taste for blue counter.
    Both matches were grinded out in the 2nd and 3rd games and for some reason they kept letting me play LED. Huh? But I thought LED was a "you counter this or else" kinda card? I'd like to know what all your thoughts are on this....
    My other match was against an aggro white weenie deck packing permission effects. What a joke against manaless....

    So;
    Thoughts on LED in a Spy deck = great. If they counter it, you've only lost a turn, and you've now learned what strategy they're on.
    I'm still not conviced it's absolutely necessary in the deck, but I'm really enjoying it.

    My current list is;
    4 Thug, Troll, Imp, Therapy, Doctor, LED, Probe, Narc, Phants, Bridge, Wraith
    3 Spy, Shell, Shadow, Ichorid, Annex
    1 Flayer, 1 Worldspine Wurm
    I'm still playing around with numbers, still not quite happy with it yet.
    My side comprised of Unmask, Mindbreak Trap, an Angel of Despair, Kederekt Leviathan, the remianing Shell, Shadow, Ichorid & Annex.
    The reason why I kept all the singles, was so I could revert to the grind plan if LED was getting countered everytime it hit play.

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroYawgmoth View Post
    Blightsteel is better against S&T than Worldspine.

    There is the possibility that we make a board like:
    1-2 Forest
    2 Fetch
    4 Dryad Arbor
    4 Reverent Silence
    3-4 Natures Claim
    Against specific hate like Leyline, we board out Balustrades, Blightsteel, and some other stuff. Problem would be, that we are very slow without DRs, so maybe cut 1 Forest and 2 Claims, and just play DR Targets here. =D
    RE: Spine vs Blight.
    I'll give Blightsteel a go. My whole reason to use Wurm was for dread return. I tested a proxy Blighty, just don't own one. I found that whilst Wurm is great for tokens, you still have to get through the counter.
    So what other decks have bilateral plop into play besides Show & Hypergenesis that Blighty could help with?

  7. #1207
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    I enjoy writing, so I wrote a report about my experiences with this deck in the Tournament Reports forum. I played this weekend at SCG Washington, DC, and I went 6-3.

  8. #1208

    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Well done RT, nice report.

    Very glad to hear you dodged a lot of gravehate - maybe Dredge isn't dead afterall?
    RE: Unmask.
    Yeah I kinda found the same thing. I want to like it, but we can only really use it T2 and beyond. Given we're starting on the draw a lot of the time, we're open to Brainstorm, Enlightened Tutor and all the normal crap. On T1 we cop a timewalk on the draw, or a Time Stretch if we're on the play.

    Kinda expected that some think Manaless is a poor deck choice, I've copped that a couple times too from the Angry Nerd Patrol.
    I think some of this might be attributed to Manaless being a fairly budget/entry-level deck, so you get a lot of newbies playing it, taking really long turns etc.
    So what, right? I hope the irony isn't lost on those judgmental types should they lose....

  9. #1209
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Hey RThomas, thanks for the report.

    I have a question regarding to your maindeck.

    Have you considered to run Chancellor of the Forge instead of Gitaxian Probe? It "speeds" the deck up, by providing one creature for DR [like Arbor in the "normal manaless-build"], and it helps in the first few Dredges to get 3 creatures over Shadow [unlike Probe]. It also serves as an alternate wincondition.

    Happy dredging, everybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells
    :16: - (See, now Erratic Explosion's a deck)
    Legendary Creature - Horror
    Haste, Hexproof, Double Strike, Trample
    Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells is indestructible.
    Permanents you control can't be sacrificed or copied.
    Whenever Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells attacks, defending player gets liver cancer (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
    13/13

  10. #1210
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroYawgmoth View Post
    Hey RThomas, thanks for the report.

    I have a question regarding to your maindeck.

    Have you considered to run Chancellor of the Forge instead of Gitaxian Probe? It "speeds" the deck up, by providing one creature for DR [like Arbor in the "normal manaless-build"], and it helps in the first few Dredges to get 3 creatures over Shadow [unlike Probe]. It also serves as an alternate wincondition.

    Happy dredging, everybody.
    You're welcome, I enjoy writing about my experiences and wish more would do the same. You may read a bit about my initial consideration of Forge Chancellor on pages 57 and 58. I felt that I needed to pick two things out of three regarding Annex, Forge, and Probe. I chose Annex and Probe because I'm still a bit unfamiliar with exactly what people are holding (to help out with Therapy); Probe helped out when my opener did not contain a dredger (which happened a startling four times); and I felt that I had to weigh having one less creature to reanimate something against dredging extra on turn two. It's relevant that Forge Chancellor cannot be Duressed or Inquisitioned away, as an ancillary point. I felt that the Probe/Therapy combo and filling my graveyard more quickly, which incidentally also protects against Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze to an extent, was stronger than Forge Chancellor. I think that any combination of those three may be played, or perhaps there can be some sort of three-way split.

    I found in practice that Forge Chancellor was marginally quicker than Probe to make three creatures, and only just. Perhaps making your disruption hit a little harder is best in this combo-filled metagame, or perhaps getting there faster is the correct answer. We'll have to check it out. I had Forge Chancellor in my sidepile as a one-of to win through Leyline of Sanctity. It also served a purpose against aggro decks.

  11. #1211

    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Hey guys! I tried the list with spies and i gotta say, while it is cool and different, i am really preferring hollywoods list with maindeck chancellor of the annex. I just felt like it didnt have enough going on with no arbors and probe. I struggle to get to 3 creatures. I may just need to play it a bit more though ill do a full write up of my findings withyour lists after a few more playtesting sessions. I have settled on a side board for the "standard" list though. I have been having alot of luch with this.

    2 verdant catacombs
    1 beta forest lol (has to be beta)
    2 noxious revival
    2 reverant silence
    2 natures claim
    3 contagion
    3 sickening shoal

    Here is my reasoning: I dont feel like we need 4 reverant silence.yes the hate sucks, but the only hate that is really relavent too it is leyines and rest in peace. I dont have any rest in peace to worry about where I play. I feel like running less gives me a chance to still be reactive and hate, while dilluting my deck less and being consistant still. The contagion is fo elves. fuck elves. That deck can be so explosive and win out of nowhere. killing a couple early gus coupled with chancellor wins that easy enough though. The sickening shoal is fo large troublesome creatures. I have a reanimator style deck that I play against and elesh norn and platinum empyrion rape my face. Shoal is a good answer to those cards. with the revivals I can run 4 of each artifact/enchantment hate technically, plus ruin tricks for my opponent with brainstorm and other things, and I can run up to five of each of the creature kill spells. if you dont or havent played with noxious revival I recommend you try it. I have also been playing against alot of belcher/tes. I was running unmask for these matchups, but I really never liked it. It was always relevant too late. with a decent hand and chancellor it seems to be enough to slow them down to cast a couple therapies. from there its straight winning. honestly reanimator and elves have been giving me the most trouble, so I have adjusted my sb to deal with those decks. Thoughts? What do you guys think?

  12. #1212
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    I rarely found the need to play Contagion/Shoal post-board unless I was facing Goblin Lackey or Scavenging Ooze. There just aren't a lot of creatures that pressed me except for those. I would take the above suggestion of Faerie Macabre into serious consideration: while Reanimator might not see much play anymore, Tin Fins and ANT certainly do, and Faerie Macabre won me games in both of those matches in the report above.

    Also, if you'd like to play Reverent Silence package in the sidepile, there really needs to be four, or perhaps three. Even though your points are taken into consideration, I'm not sure what the parlay is between gaining one of your seven land and one of your two Silences. It must be very low. Since the deck loses if an enchantment hits play without an answer, it's best to bite the bullet and put four in your sidepile. I suppose all of this is dependent on your specific metagame but I feel four is quite applicable across the board.

  13. #1213

    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    I played RT's list of Manaless Dredge to 19th place at SCG: KC, 6-2 record.

    Round 1: The Mirror. Yes, I'm serious. Nice guy. He wins the die roll and chooses to draw. I drop my head and smile. Show him Chancellor of the Annex before G1, stop his first Therapy. He's playing a non-combo version. We both discard Phantasmagorian on T1, I have Grave-Troll, he doesn't. I combo him on T3. We both side 4 Macabres. G2, I once again draw Grave-Troll, he doesn't. Very anti-climactic games. 1-0

    Round 2: Solidarity. Game 1, he preordains on T1 and T2. I DDD, with a Street Wraith in hand. Rip his hand apart with Cabal Therapies, combo him. G2, he attempts to combo on T3, misses. I don't. Played through Surgical on Grave-Troll this game. 2-0 (Note: My opponent chose to play first game 2)

    Round 3: Pox. Yep. Game 1, I show him Chancellor, he, like most of my opponents, has to read it. Stop his first spell, Inquisition. Discard Phantasmagorian, he doesn't play anything other than an Urborg and a Mishra's Factory before I combo him. I therapy to try to get an idea of what I'm up against. G2, not sure what's coming in, Extirpate or Surgical or Leyline. I take a chance and don't side. For reference, my board was 4 Macabres and an anti-hate package of 3 Verdant Catacombs, 3 Forest, 1 Dryad Arbor (Forgot my Arbors at home), 2 Nature's Claim, 2 Reverent Silence. He mulls to 6, slams T0 Leyline and I scoop. I board in the anti-hate. Have the Verdant in hand G3, never draw one of my 4 pieces of anti-hate. He slams T0 Leyline again, I lose to Urborg into Factory. The turn before I die, he completely locks me out with Nether Void. He only had 3 Leylines in his board. Bad luck, oh well. 2-1. (Note: once again, my opponent chose to play first game 2)

    Round 4: TES. He looks surprised when I go on the draw, but seems okay with it. He never finds a Tutor, I turn 3 combo him. Game 2, he mulls to 5, keeps, and I show him Chancellor before the game starts, he sighs. He kept a double Gitaxian Probe, no land hand at 5. His first probe gets countered, I rip apart the rest of his hand with Therapies and combo him easily. He drew terribly this match. 3-1. (Note: once again, my opponent chose to play first game 2)

    Round 5: Merfolk. Oh, this match. So, I win game 1, as expected. He seems to not know how to play against Dredge at all. I combo with him holding two irrelevant cards relatively easily. G2, I show him Chancellor. He plays T2 Relic, and I punt. I decide to take that one turn and go for it all, as I have 2 Street Wraith in my hand. This is stupid, as I may have to use them later to recover. Instead, I go all-in and the first Relic goes boom. He has no real action, but he does have a 2nd Relic, which spells my doom when he finally starts drawing Lords. Of note, he sided in Pithing Needle naming Bridge from Below. Poor guy. G3, he leads with T1 Relic again, which I play through. I have 26 cards left in my library when the crucial turn comes against him - I have Grave-Troll in yard, Street Wraith in hand, and 2 Bridges in the deck. I need one to win the game, I miss on all 12 cards and die. Later, I found out that he had tapped out to attack me with a dismember in hand and 2 creatures + mutavault on board that turn, so he punted and I couldn't return it. Nice guy, but I went off at his poor play, apologized later. Had to unsteam myself off tilt. 3-2 (Note: My opponent finally chose to draw first game 2)

    Round 6: 12post. Guy who finished 2nd in the Standard open. Game 1 is a war. He gains a bunch of life off of Glimmerpost, and Crop Rotations Bojuka Bog, but I slow-dredged against him to guard against it. Turn before he dies to Zombies, he casts Glacial Chasm. He bricks 5 draw steps in a row. I finally hit Spy the turn after he lets Chasm go, I have to think. I'm basically dead to Emrakul at any point here, as I have lost life to both Wraith and Probe to stay in the game. Shrug, go for it. Last card he has in hand is a Repeal for the Flayer in response to the 2nd Dread Return, with Top on board. He spins it, draws Preordain. I still dead to either Emrakul or Eye of Ugin at this point. He misses on the Preordain, draws Ponder blind. Ponders, shuffles, misses. He then punts, probably out frustration (not that I blame him at this point), and activates Top to look at top 3, then in response activates to draw a card and cracks a fetch. He should have done it the other way around. He misses. The game took 30 minutes, very tense. Game 2, he gets an early Prime Titan. I dredge, hit spy, but need a Dread Return. I never get the chance - Prime Time finds Eye of Ugin, finds Emrakul, the Spaghetti Monster kills me. G3, Cabal Therapy rips him up, I combo him quickly. 4-2 (Note: My opponent chose to draw first game 2)

    Round 7: Jund. Oh, Sweet Jesus, yes. I show him Chancellor before G1, he reads it and sighs. He runs a thoughtseize into it, to resolve T2 Deathrite. I discard Phantasmagorian, he tries to remove it, I respond. Combo him. G2, he has basically no board for me besides Surgicals, and those do nothing, really. Easy combo G2 with protection. 5-2. (Note: My opponent chose to play first game 2)

    Round 8: Jund. I almost giggle, really. He leads with Bloodstained Mire, Deathrite. I discard Troll, he takes the bait and tries to remove it. I respond with Street Wraith, he slumps. Combo him T3 through the Shaman. He boards 3 cards. Mulls. Keeps his hand, I'm fine. Show him Chancellor. Easily combo him with minimal resistance. When I Therapy him to clear the way for the Spy, his hand is Bolt, Hymn x2, and Thoughtseize x2. Sickening. 6-2. (Note: My opponent chose to play first game 2)

    6-2 is good for 19th place and $100. The deck piloted smooth as silk, despite the annoyance of always seemingly having at least 2 Narcos in my hand. Most opponents seemed helpless against it, as targeted gravehate did very little to me, and I sided out the combo against potential RiP or Leylines most of the time. Not totally sure it was worth it, but I easily could have won both matches I lost. Would play the deck again, 100%. 5 out of my 8 opponents, after losing G1, still chose to play first G2. I won every game 1.

  14. #1214
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSoze View Post
    I played RT's list of Manaless Dredge to 19th place at SCG: KC, 6-2 record.
    Hey dude,

    I'm glad you decided to give the list a go! It's surely a glass cannon against prepared opponents (to be sure, at least the one I've prepared), but those opponents number in the single digits, and it looks like you ran the gauntlet and performed well, kudos to you!!!

    Against 12Post, you've got a nigh-unwinnable match unless your vs. punts, which he did, and that's a function of the deck, so more kudos to you. Even with your whole graveyard revealed, it's easy to punt against this deck if you don't know what you're doing. Well done.

    As an aside, picking the play against you is a huge mistake; it's basically a Time Walk for you. I did it recently in a small tournament as Spiral Tide; I didn't even get close. Your opponents have to be on their game or its curtains for them since Therapy rips them apart! I emphasize this in my reports but opponents just don't pick up on it. Well done!

  15. #1215

    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by RThomas- View Post
    Hey dude,

    I'm glad you decided to give the list a go! It's surely a glass cannon against prepared opponents (to be sure, at least the one I've prepared), but those opponents number in the single digits, and it looks like you ran the gauntlet and performed well, kudos to you!!!

    Against 12Post, you've got a nigh-unwinnable match unless your vs. punts, which he did, and that's a function of the deck, so more kudos to you. Even with your whole graveyard revealed, it's easy to punt against this deck if you don't know what you're doing. Well done.

    As an aside, picking the play against you is a huge mistake; it's basically a Time Walk for you. I did it recently in a small tournament as Spiral Tide; I didn't even get close. Your opponents have to be on their game or its curtains for them since Therapy rips them apart! I emphasize this in my reports but opponents just don't pick up on it. Well done!
    What surprises me the most is how much people don't know how to play against Dredge, honestly. It's not really a secret deck or anything, but people punt all over the place. It's pretty amazing. I don't get to as many opens as I would like, but the last time I made the money was in KC, it was Legacy, and I was playing regular Dredge. I've won about 75-80% of my matches with Dredge at SCG:Opens, it takes Dredge winning before people put the tougher cards to beat in the board.

    I would say the list is just fine, so long as people don't play the RiP/Leyline/Wheelofsunandmoon-type hate. Pinpoint stuff, like Surgical/Extirpate really does nothing assuming you know what you're doing, and playing through Crypt/Relic just takes practice. I will say that I probably wouldn't play this version without the Spy combo, just because it gives the ability to just win the game straight out, while keeping the Dredge options for winning on as well. It's a very tight list, so kudos to you, sir. I did like having the out against Leyline-type effects with the side, so I would probably keep it that way - there was no hate I couldn't play through otherwise.

    As an aside, you haven't lived until you dread return Chancellor of the Annex against a Solidarity opponent who now realizes that you blanked their first High Tide, and they need to draw two to win.....except they're dead on the next swing. Truly fun stuff. Also played through a tabernacle at pendrell vale using Nether Shadow/Ichorid. The lines of attack the deck uses are extremely varied, and it really seems to frustrate people.

  16. #1216

    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Well done MrSoze.
    a 6-2 is pretty good given how glass-cannon a Spy deck can be.

    I took my Spy-variant along tonight, did pretty well - I'll post how I went in the morning - too tired right now!

  17. #1217

    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Okay, so last night I gave the Spy deck another go.
    I know SPy isn't the optimal version of the deck, but I've been testing it a bit - running a simialr list as RThomas, except LED's are in there for more acceleration.
    I have also been running a single Worldspine Wurm in the side, cos I still don't have a Blightsteel.

    I don't tend to write anything down, I played;
    Burn, Burn (again!), Reanimator, High Tide & Goblins.
    Went 3-2.
    Against all decks I owned game 1, except against Reanimator.

    The Burn decks both had me perilously close to 3 life in game 2, so Spy here was very welcome compared to Grisel. I forgot how much I love Goblin Guide when I'm trying to find an answer to grave hate.
    Against Reanimator I got hands with very little action, and in game 1 & 2 they Griselbanned me on T2/3 and proceeded to stomp me out. Copped a Bojuka Bog in game2.
    No G-demon in the yard to use the legend rule to my benefit. Boooo!

    High Tide was a very tight match! Best match by far. Funny we have both played against a Hightide deck Mr Soze!
    In game1, when I started dredging my opponent lets out a "bugger", giving me a dodgy look. I went stupid on T3 despite force.
    Game 2 I got a slow hand, and by around turn 5 (i think) I've still had no Dread Return's appear, so I'm just proceeding to stomp face and therapy his biz. He has two cards in hand and life around 3 to 5 from memory. He then lands a 5th island, a High Tide and taps his Candlelabra of Tawnos...... and drops a Time Spiral!
    Fuck me backwards! I forgot they run that card!
    I had only a couple Shadows, so I just hoped I got another turn to finish it. He proceeded to go infinite-turn and went through half his deck, casting a second Time Spiral, going thorugh another 20 or so cards before he plonked down a monster Brain freeze doing the Spy-dance followed by Blue Sun's Zenith.
    Game 3 he was bouncing my Icky's and I couldn't get to 3 creatures despite Doctor & Annex staring me in the face. Once again, I had his life pretty low from Icky-beats. Eventually he chained a long turn into a Cunning Wish, fetched a Brain Freeze and killed me with another BSZ.
    Having never played against High Tide before I made a few bad plays, but oh well.... We had a good laugh - great fun.

    The Goblin deck was a R/W variant running Thalia. I won game 1 quick, he smashed me in game 2 on the back of Krenko, RiP & Thalia. Game 3 was close, as I got a grip of hate in my 7 with land, answers and dredgers - won game 3 via Spy/Flayer. Thalia & Skirk Prospector suck balls!

    Thoughts.
    I didn't see a lot of hate relevant to stopping dredge dead, only one RiP all night, however I did see a couple Tormod's Crypt and a Bojuka Bog.
    Chancellor of the Annex is great, but I didn't see it in my opening 7 once. Balls!
    As far as Spy is concerned, LED is great - but it does require you drop some stuff to fit it in... still not sure it's actually necessary.
    The Spy list feels just as consistent, only slightly faster, compared to the normal Hollywood list game1, however I've been finding it's trickier to get to 3 for the Doctor postboard.
    That said - I do like this version of the deck, especially since it gets rid of the tedious dredge 7 bit and just lets me turn the library over, and my win-loss is about the same as normal Manaless.
    But;
    Spy isn't where I wanna be - I miss Dryad Arbor in the main horribly. Grisel would've given me a fighting chance (maybe ) against reanimator.
    Next time I play manaless, I'll be dropping Spy and going back to my bastardised "Hollywood" list.

  18. #1218
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    So ... im new here because on the german boards nobody is interested in the manaless version.
    Just took hollywood's list to our weekly local.
    Md were 4 Faerie of Macabre instead of removal. Everything else was pretty standard.

    R1 vs SneaknTell
    G1 i loose to a turn2 Emrakul. Not much to say - just some bad "draws"
    G2 i win threw a Relic of Progenitus. He didnt expected Nature's Claim in manaless drege. lol.
    G3 he only found Pyroclasm after a bunch of cantrips. With Therapy i saw 2 Sneak Attack,2 Grisel and 1 Emrakul. No problem since i kept ky own Grisel in hand for the case he would play Show and Tell.

    2/1

    R2 vs Spanish Inquisition
    i already know what he plays so i tinkered a bit if i directly scoop 0/2 but ...
    R1 he fizzles on 1 life in turn 3 or so. After that he geschrieben hast beaten by Shadows and Ichorids.
    R2 i get belchered.
    R3 another time he fizzles and did a missplay. I hit with Therapy his whole hand of Cabal Rituals and Infernal Tutor. After that it's quickly over.

    yeah another 2/1

    R3 UW Control
    G1 is pretty much a bye. He really does nothing dangerous.
    G2 i get beaten up by Geist of Saint Traft. I can handle his RiP. At one point i can play DR. He has lethal damage and i dont got bridges but he has another Tutor and Force + pitchcard ...
    G3 he does not found any hate. I can rip his hand and a couple of zombies eat his brain.

    and again 2/1

    Last round is coming and im the only one who stands 3/0 at this moment.
    I afford a draw and my opp accepts so i a m save in the first place. Afterwards it turns out that it a mistake because if i would have lost we would be save in the first two places and play about the first pick.
    We play for fun and i got crushed by an artifact.deck with welder, painter, trinket mage, sdt etc.

    So overall 3/0/1 and i take home a Dark Confidant ((by 10 players))

  19. #1219
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Hey everybody, I've got another report to add onto the heap, although I ran a slightly different list. Tonight at Atomic Empire's 15 man legacy tournament, I took first place with rektareloaded's maindeck from page 33 of this thread. The sole change to the main was that I ran one Balustrade Spy over one flayer because I...forgot to buy another flayer before the tournament started. My sideboard was like so:
    3 Aethersnipe
    4 Faerie Macabre
    4 Unmask
    4 Chancellor of the Annex

    I was fairly pleased with the board, although I will be the first to tell you that I dodged a lot of the graveyard hate tonight. The Aethersnipes are for sneak and show. I never brought in the Faeries, but I wouldn't remove them from the board. Unmask and Chancellor came in often, and I got a lot of mileage out of them both. I tend to side out the Bloodghast/Salvage combo when sideboarding, but I do like having them both in the main, and Bloodghast won at least one game for me.

    The tournament (plug: come out for the big legacy tournament tomorrow! It's a great environment, solid players with competitive decks, and what I estimate to be a bajillion judges in the player pool) was four rounds. I'll spare you the repetitive details of playing dredge, and try to hit the highlights.

    Round one was against Sneak and show. Game one I took an Emrakul on the chin, but managed to Dread Return flayer and troll the following turn at one life. Game two I managed to stall for a few turns with two chancellors, and gathered several zombie tokens. I managed to return a chancellor and although my opponent was able to put into play a gristlebrand and draw seven, he couldn't crack a fetch at one life to finish me, so tokens took the game.

    Round two was against a UWR delver deck. The first game I was able to race through his delver. For the second game, my opponent shrewdly elected to draw. His hand was good enough to roll with it, but I unmasked my own grave troll and dredged with a Gitaxian probe. I hit a couple of bloodghasts, and cabal therapied for his business cards. Chancellor also stalled him for a turn.

    Round three was against UR delvernought. The first game was fairly standard, I believe returned a flayer. The second game, he was able to put me off my game plan by repeatedly stifling my Ichorids, and delver beat me down. Game three, he had tons of reach, but not the mana to play it, and I gathered several zombie tokens. I used Unmask to take a dreadnought that would have removed my bridges the next turn.

    Round four was against UW miracles. The first game he was unable to find a Rest in Peace despite a number of draw spells. The second game, I had just about the only hand that will beat a deck with RIP: Phantasmagorian, Imp, Imp, Nether Shadow, Wraith, Wraith, and I believe an ichorid. My dredges coughed up two Narcomoebas, and I was able to Dread Return a Chancellor to stall off RIP for a turn. I had a number of zombies, but he couldn't get a terminus with his top.

    I'll reiterate that I did get very lucky with respect to the amount of grave hate I faced; I didn't see any of the Deathrite decks, and I had effectively no answer to leyline or RIP. I will go on record as saying that I think both unmask and chancellor deserve serious consideration when building a sideboard. I know you all are largely sold on Chancellor, but unmask was able to hit both my own cards and my opponents'. So, come on down to Durham tomorrow(Saturday, 3/30), and bring all the grave-hate you want, because I'll have to miss the event.

  20. #1220
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    Re: [Deck] Manaless Ichorid

    Quote Originally Posted by Slag View Post
    Hey everybody, I've got another report to add onto the heap, although I ran a slightly different list.
    3 Aethersnipe
    4 Faerie Macabre
    4 Unmask
    4 Chancellor of the Annex

    ...
    Well done. A couple points to make:

    --Was there a reason to throw in Spy when you had Dakmor Salvage in the deck? My choice would be Griselbrand, since it does just about the same thing with Salvage or Arbor in the deck. I don't know if you didn't have them available, but I think it would be a stronger choice. Unless your thinking was to bin a bunch of cards, dredge Salvage the next turn, and recur your Bloodghasts. Then I understand but Griselbrand feels much stronger.

    --You might also consider Angel of Despair or Kederekt Leviathan in the AEthersnipe spot for the Show and Tell game since their utility is a bit wider, but this may also be card availability.

    --I'm glad you found some good use out of Unmask; perhaps I'm not playing it properly, but I never liked having it in the second and third games. It works best when you delay a turn with Annex Chancellor and it looks like you took advantage of that.

    It looks like a pretty good time to try this deck out if you're not seeing much of Leyline and Rest in Peace; I've seen either of those cards exactly once in a couple months of tournament play. We've already established that Deathrite Shaman is not a huge problem for the deck, since it can surely blow right through it, so it's good to see the deck performing well.

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