I was talking to a friend, and he thinks this card could be banned. At first I was a little confused, but if Wizards can ban Mystical (since it powered all the combo decks) why not Show and Tell as well?
The Hive Mind deck is actually an issue since it is extremely difficult to fight against by traditional means (in comparison to Painter, Cephilid Breakfast, etc.) and is rather simple to play (in comparison to Storm, High Tide, etc.).
Thoughts?
Fixed that for you.Originally Posted by lorddotm
And how do non-blue decks beat Hive Mind?
Anyway, I had a similar sort of conversation to the OP's with a friend the other day. The same sort of logic applied to Mystical and Survival could potentially be applied to Show and Tell (card is not very broken but very powerful, but can be broken at any time by a sufficiently powerful future printing). I don't know if that's actually the case, since Mystical costs one mana and is a tutor and Survival is an engine that tutors, whereas Show and Tell is "just" a way to cheat on mana, but the card has been a very important component of various decks' backup plans for the last several years. Hive Mind would be much less of an issue if it couldn't just plop an Emrakul into play instead.
Discard spells, red blasts, and narrow hate cards like Angel's Grace.
I would love to see Show and Tell banned. It's currently #1 on my list of the most degenerate cards in Legacy, right above Dread Return. I'd also take the banning of Hive Mind, which is the single hardest card in Legacy to stop.
In fairness, to not kill the archetype, what they ought to do is this:
1. Ban Show and Tell.
2. Print the following card:
Unveiled Wonders
Sorcery
Each player may put a permanent card from his or her hand onto the battlefield.
Those who regularly attend the Wizard's Fair know that some questions are best left unasked. Like "What's that under the tarp?"
This fixes the following things:
1. It slows Show and Tell down by one mana.
2. It lets cards like Gaddock Teeg stop it from happening.
3. It lets people play Planeswalkers off Show and Tell, which makes Karn and Jace more relevant in these situations.
@ Tacosnape, How about taking it a step further by making the "put a permanent into play", step by step? At least, it gives information to your opponent as to what he should be plopping down. Also, they should make it double blue so that it won't be as easily splashable as it currently is.
I doubt they will ever ban Hive Mind. It's a 6 to cast enchantment that needs another card in hand to win. What really makes Hive Mind so resilient is Show and Tell, not only by cheating the mana cost on said enchantment, but by also allowing a totally different plan b from the former.
I almost bought into Hive Mind before its recent explosion on the SCG circuit. I think it was the time Mental Misstep was spoiled and I was contemplating on selling my Spiral Tide to get the pieces for this. I had deals in place for the Show and Tells and the Grim Monoliths, but changed my mind at the last minute. I'll be surprised if Show and Tell doesn't get banned come next bannouncement.
Show and Tell is an accelerator that also protects the spell you want to get throught. If you cast show and tell and want that Hivemind into play you gain that tempo of 6 mana as well you arent losing your Hive Mind. I have seen Hive Mind grind out counters with just chaining a couple of Show and Tell then just procced to cast it for mana from sol land + island + monolith. No other accelerator does this.
The hive mind deck do have the counter counter to their deck in their board in form of Leyline of Sanctity. Protects their hand from Cliques and discard spells.
I would like to some cards that actually turns of Hivemind. If they cant print cards that does it I dont think Show and Tell is gonna be good for the format.
New hatebear 2/2 for 2, Name a card. Permanents cards or cards in graveyards with the chosen name loses all abilities.
The funny thing is that Hive Mind has been out since Magic 2010. Almost a full 2 years...I'm surprised it took this long for someone to break it with Show and Tell. The tech has been unchanged for the most part since it was printed (and even had Mystical Tutor available to it at one point...)
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
It was rumored before not of being a serius deck. But now there really isnt a question anymore if the deck is good or not. Its now known to be one of the best decks atm.
I voiced a similar concern to a friend of mine, since a ban seems possible given WotCs precedence and since SnT is the card responsible for many of my best MtG results (thus, banning it would disappoint me greatly). I'd say it's not banworthy because unlike Mystical ANT/ Reanimator, the correct hate does beat Hive Mind. Angel's Grace is practically a freeroll unless they have their own and a ton of cards attack it effectively like Spellstutter Sprite, Daze and Stifle. Granted, with the possible exception of Daze all of the best cards against Hive Mind blow ass, but against that deck specifically they do win. Mystical-powered decks fought right through all of the hate by tutoring up their 1-of and going off whenever they felt like it.
I doubt that'll stop them from pulling the trigger if they think it's taking over, but it remains to be seen how strong the deck proves against people siding for it. It helps that NO RUG and Merfolk are both pretty strongly favored already, so maybe SnT will avoid the banhammer until they print something really broken. It does seem inevitable that it'll happen eventually, I just doubt it'll be Hive Mind that does it.
Great success!
Merfolk and NO Rug aren't -that- strongly favored. People don't seem to realize that when it counts, Hive Mind has as many counters as the rest of them. Pact of Negation is just as relevant when trying to stick a Hive Mind as is any other counter, and opposing Mental Missteps are basically blanked.
They will ban it and that will be great.
These Show and Tell decks are just so obnoxious and they keep demanding more and more narrow answers.
Hill Giant means business.
And the worst part is, there are so so few options that are good against everything Hive Mind does. Blue counters are the best bet. Force of Will and Spell Pierce.
Even the amazing Angel's Grace / Sundial of the Infinite shenanigans won't help you at all against the turn two/three Emrakul. You've got to have an answer for that as well.
The printing of Mental Misstep hurt other combo decks so bad that a combo deck which doesn't rely on resolving one drops to win is bound to gain some traction. The format slowed down to a point that you don't have to win on the first or second turn to be considered a tier1 combo deck. Moreover, because of the Mental Misstep mania, people started removing Daze and Stifle from their decks to have space for said card, thereby eliminating more possible outs to Hive Mind. Playing Hive Mind prior to the printing of Misstep was just counter intuitive because you can play something better in the form of ANT or TES as far as combo decks go.
I agree with the assessments regarding other combo decks being pushed out of the metagame due to Mental Misstep.
I think that in regards to banning a certain card, I would more inclined to have Show and Tell depart, rather than Hive Mind. Hive Mind (when cast) is much easier to deal with than it being dropped with Show and Tell. It would also change the Hive Mind deck from easily being able to drop Progenitus/Emrakul when they suspect/know that there are ways to deal with the Hive Mind plan.
Dropping [insert high mana cost overpowered card] on turn 2 with blue protection in hand is hard to beat. This is especially the case when Show and Tell is on the draw, and you've lost the game before you even get to untap for your 2nd turn.
West side
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So just to clear up a question I have:
Opponent casts Show and Tell, puts Hive Mind onto the battlefield
If I have an Oblivion Ring in hand...can I target Hive Mind and essentially 'counter' Show and Tell?
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
He can just respond witha a pact and get you while the ring trigger is on the stack.
Yes, this works.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
You cannot "counter" Hive Mind with Oblivion Ring.
This includes any permanent based enchantment removal, as well as instant speed removal too.
Without passing priority, the Hive Mind player can still "combo" off by responding to the removal. The only way I've found to stop such shenanigans is by using:
Ethersworn Canonist
Rule of Law
Arcane Laboratory
Which at least give you one turn to find an answer for Hive Mind. This doesn't give you much room to work with, however.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Yeah, this isn't going to help. Here's what happens.
1. Show and Tell Resolves. Hive Mind and Oblivion Ring are simultaneously put onto the battlefield. Oblivion Ring's trigger is put on the stack.
2. The active player gets priority at this point. As he is first to act, he can announce a Pact of the Whatever, put it on the stack, and put Hive Mind's copy trigger on the stack as well. All before you ever get priority to do anything.
3. Presumably, unless you've got something else, your Pact copy will resolve. Then his Pact will resolve. Then Oblivion Ring's trigger will resolve and eat Hive Mind. Or itself. Either one's equally productive at this point.
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