Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 137

Thread: [Deck] Merfolk

  1. #1
    ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)
    4eak's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2007
    Posts

    1,314

    [Deck] Merfolk

    I don't know if Merfolk will be a decent deck or not. It traditionally belongs in blue and/or combo heavy metagames (which, we might argue, WoTC is pushing against in Modern). It loses important cards like FoW, Daze, Wasteland, and some others like Standstill, Jitte, and Stifle. The fact remains that Aether Vial is legal in Modern, and that is the crux of the deck. Alongside keeping all its creatures, the deck still exists in Modern; we just don't know if will be worth playing or not. Zoo played in large enough percentages can make Merfolk a bad choice (and there are several midrange decks which are bad matchups for Merfolk as well). Despite that, I'm still going to suggest we at least try Merfolk in such an unknown metagame.

    Merfolk might be a deck that will start out as a bad deck until the metagame evolves and settles a bit into something which *might* be blue-centric (a reasonable possibility given the history of magic).

    Here is an example Modern Merfolk list:

    // Lands - 20
    16 Island
    4 Mutavault

    // Creatures - 26
    4 Cursecatcher
    4 Silvergill Adept
    4 Coralhelm Commander
    4 Lord of Atlantis
    4 Merfolk Sovereign
    4 Merrow Reejerey
    2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

    // Tempo - 14
    4 AEther Vial
    4 Disrupting Shoal
    4 Spell Pierce
    2 Dismember

    // Sideboard
    SB: 2 Spell Snare
    SB: 1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
    SB: 3 Vedalken Shackles
    SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 2 Pithing Needle
    SB: 2 Sower of Temptation
    SB: 2 Dismember

    Finding the appropriate countersuite matters. Equipment, Spellstutter Sprite, V-Clique, and Tectonic Edge are important considerations. I have no idea if this list is built appropriately. If Merfolk does become a reasonable deck, I assume this isn't too far off from what it will look like.

    Also, a white splashed Merfolk might perform better. You pick up several tools, including Path to exile, Sejiri Merfolk, and a more complete sideboard.



    peace,
    4eak
    Last edited by 4eak; 08-14-2011 at 12:13 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    I think it might need to be more similar to extended merfolk and focus more on aggro backed up by a few powerful spells (cryptic in extended). Its hard to play the tempo game without any free counters or wasteland. I guess shoal is ok but it sure isn't force or even daze or misstep. I would start by cutting the sovereigns for something like 1 island and maybe 2 spell snares and a misers cryptic. Either way I feel like you need at least 10 counters. Other things to consider are both syggs, cold eyed selkie and maybe even green for goyf like some old old merfolk decks did.
    Quote Originally Posted by lorddotm View Post
    Saying something isn't bad in Angel Stompy is like saying Memnite isn't bad in Cherrios.

  3. #3
    I check my look in the mirror.

    Join Date

    Feb 2011
    Posts

    245

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    Yeah, Spell Snare ought to be pretty good with all the Goyfs and Confidants around.

  4. #4
    My cat's name is Tarmogoyf!
    Sturtzilla's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2010
    Location

    Franklin, PA; Cleveland, OH
    Posts

    259

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    Cryptic Command and Spell Snare seem good. Cryptic is slow but gives the deck basically every tool it could want. The format will also be a little slower than we are used to. I think it should work pretty well.

    Some other ideas form block awhile back: Stonybrook Banneret and Sage's Dousing. These could be decent but I think that might need some testing.

    Edit: I am not sure how I feel about the Shoal. I just have a feeling that it will be hit or miss.

  5. #5
    ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)
    4eak's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2007
    Posts

    1,314

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    By the time Cryptic Command is castable, a sizable portion of your counter targets can also be countered by hardcast Shoal. Obviously Cryptic is still preferred at that stage of the game. But, Merfolk doesn't even want to be at that stage of the game, I think. I know I'm trying to win the game before I have 4 lands in play, and I try to play cards which promote that. The early game, Shoal is your substantially weaker version of FoW. It is worth trying if you haven't.



    peace,
    4eak

  6. #6

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    I used your list for some testing against 12Post and I think Disrupting Shoal is a better choice than Cryptic Command.

    Merfolk has so many creatures that itīs nearly impossible to keep 1UUU open. On the other hand playing Shoal for free is rather costy as you will lose a creature in your hand most of the time.
    Maybe Delay would be a good choice. Sure, it doesnīt hardcounter the opponent's spell, but three extra turns should be enough to finish the game with this deck, isnīt it?

  7. #7
    Legacy Inept

    Join Date

    Oct 2005
    Location

    France
    Posts

    1,956

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    In a FoWless Merfolk, you might want a shapeshifter. It helps the aggro part and it is also a way to control to opposing creatures.

    Phyrexian Metamorph : copies creatures and artifacts (equipments)
    Shapesharer : can be played first to copy lords, can be made unblockable with Sovereign and then copy a bigger creature your opponent controls

    Also, I don't like Kira, never did.

  8. #8
    Member
    bakofried's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2009
    Location

    Bakersfield, Ca
    Posts

    744

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    With Zoo predicted to be one of the most popular decks? I'd think twice before playing folk without 2, maybe 3 copies in my 75.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  9. #9
    Legacy Inept

    Join Date

    Oct 2005
    Location

    France
    Posts

    1,956

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    If Zoo is dominant, don't play Folks. That's all. Also, how many anti-creatures is playing zoo ? Kira is basically a 3CC creature that will counterspell 1 removal. If you played another lord in its place (or a shapeshifter, basically the same), the effect is almost the same. Kira might be a SB tech, but it seems to me that it won't save the Zoo MU.

  10. #10
    Member
    bakofried's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2009
    Location

    Bakersfield, Ca
    Posts

    744

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    Kira draws away 2 removal spells in exchange for one card from our hand. Beyond that, 2 removal spells are required in the first place, which may shut off decks with a low removal count.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  11. #11
    Legacy Inept

    Join Date

    Oct 2005
    Location

    France
    Posts

    1,956

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    It is was playable at turn 1 like Mother of Runes, it would be okay. But when Kira comes down, it's already too late, you have already played lords, or you have lost a lot of tempo. Generally Kira counters only 1 removal spell, because Kira won't be removed (except if I have 3 creature removal in hand). Only the lord is going to be removed.

  12. #12
    ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)
    4eak's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2007
    Posts

    1,314

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    If Kira is coming down t3 (or t4 off vial), it isn't too late. You really haven't played your lords - only half of them were castable (usually) at that point in time.

    Further, getting one lord removed isn't our problem. It is usually when your opponent has multiple removal spells that we fail to stack lords. Kira absorbs at least 2 removal spells (and usually more in my experience). That's the point of the card. It is vital if you face Zoo.

    Kira often sets up situations where they only have 2 removal spells, they blow the first removal spell, then they go for the second, I counter it, and then they have to wait to build up to 2 more removal spells (by which time, I very well might have another counter, or flat win the game).

    Now, I agree with the sentiment that if Zoo is overly dominant, you shouldn't be playing Merfolk. It is possible, however, for Zoo to be tier 1 and not played in enough numbers (and for the rest of the field to be decent/good Merfolk matchups) such that Merfolk is still positioned well enough in the metagame to be viable. I'd say Legacy has often been like this.

    Admittedly, I prefer not to have Kira. But, it very well may be a necessary evil. It is one of the few cards which enables Merfolk to have a fighting chance in metagames with higher proportions of Zoo. It doesn't make Zoo favorable, but that isn't the point -- for 2 slots, it gives you a lot of bang for your buck.

    Further, in a metagame which may be packing targeted removal specifically for Zoo, Kira becomes even better; this is especially true if they aren't packing the critical mass of 1-for-1 removal that Zoo is packing.



    peace,
    4eak

  13. #13
    Legacy Inept

    Join Date

    Oct 2005
    Location

    France
    Posts

    1,956

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    Of course Kira does something that another lord would not do, but still, in several points, my thinking about Kira (at least as it was in legacy) was:
    1/ It's better than a lord if:
    ... * You opponent has several targeted removals
    ... * You have lords in play
    ... * You do not have enough lords in play to make the opposing removal relevant (I mean that if your
    2/ You do not have library manipulation to find Kira when you need it.
    3/ It's legendary.
    4/ It's a 2/2 Vanilla, non Merfolk creatures in many MUs.
    5/ Merfolk is anyway a bad deck to play in a field with a lot of targeted removal.
    6/ Also, in legacy only, Karakas/Maze completely nullify the added value of Kira. With a bit of thinking, I'm sure there will be a lot of equivalent responses in Modern (starting with the anti-equipment land, Jitte, SoFI, Ajani Vengeant, ...).

    My conclusions are:
    - If you want to play it main deck, it means that you plan to face a lot bad MUs
    ... ==> Don't play merfolk
    - You might want to play it in SB, but even though it does not seem to me game breaking enough to deserve a SB slot. Nevertheless, without anything better (I was first thinking about Chill which is also effective against pyroclasm and firespout, but then realized it's not modern-legal), I could understand why one would like to deserve 2 or 3 SB slots.

  14. #14
    Not playing Bant
    Bignasty197's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Rockwall, Texas
    Posts

    228

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    Back during Time Spiral/Lorwyn standard, I played 2 Psionic Blast in Merfolk. Since this deck won't likely be running shocklands and fetches, Psionic Blast gains some added value against the decks that do run them. I think running 2 Blasts won't dilute the deck much while giving it that last push to finish the game.
    Asylum EDH: Foil or go home.

  15. #15
    I am the anchor
    _Paradox_'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2010
    Location

    The Middle Of Nowhere
    Posts

    9

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    I have been doing pretty well on ml with this list -


    // Lands
    4 [MOR] Mutavault
    17 [UNH] Island
    2 [WWK] Tectonic Edge

    // Creatures
    4 [TSB] Lord of Atlantis
    4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
    4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
    4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
    4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
    2 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
    1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation

    // Spells
    4 [DS] AEther Vial
    4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
    2 [NPH] Dismember
    4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
    SB: 2 [BOK] Threads of Disloyalty
    SB: 3 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
    SB: 2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
    SB: 2 [DIS] Spell Snare


    sb needs some work but i love the md

  16. #16
    Kicker of Elves
    Wereodile's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2008
    Location

    Kingston Ont. Canada
    Posts

    169

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    Hey Guys this is the list I have been playing around with, I think a mana denial/disruption package could be very strong against some of the more "greedy" decks that will pop up. Spellstutter Sprite seems like a great suggestion. I am feeling good about Familiars Ruse as a hard counter.

    //Modern Fish\\

    //Creatures// 18

    4x Lord of Altantis
    4x Merrow Reejerey
    4x Cursecatcher
    4x Silvergill Adept
    2x Phantasmal Image

    //Spells// 16

    4x Cryptic Command
    3x Spreading Seas
    3x Familiars Ruse
    2x Spell Snare
    2x Remand
    2x Boomerang

    //Artifacts// 4

    4x Aether Vial

    //Lands// 21

    17x Island
    4x Mutavault



    //Sideboard//

    4x Leyline of Sanctity
    2x Sower of Temptation
    2x Dismember
    2x Rachet Bomb
    2x Spell Snare
    1x Threads of Disloyality
    1x Boomerang
    1x Sygg River Cutthroat
    Quote Originally Posted by DragoFireheart View Post
    Dredge is like a woman's period: Once a week every month, its fury engulfs everything, and then it hides for the rest of the month.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
    Should rename this thread to [SCD] Misguided Rage.

  17. #17
    I am the anchor
    _Paradox_'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2010
    Location

    The Middle Of Nowhere
    Posts

    9

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    @ wereodile - I like boomerang in theory and might try it out but i think u are running too many counterspells and the wrong sort for this deck as well. There was a discussion about modern merfolk with alex B. and everyone came to the consensus that spell snare, Remand and mana leak werent the type of counters it needed if any other than cc. U have to be aggressive and the only counterspell other than cc that i think may belong in the md is some spell pierce to stop some of the combos and WoG/Damnation.

  18. #18
    Natural Born Nitpicker
    Crysthorn's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Poland
    Posts

    55

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eak View Post
    Also, a white splashed Merfolk might perform better. You pick up several tools, including Path to Exile, Sejiri Merfolk, and a more complete sideboard.
    I highly doubt that white splash could be better - here's why:

    1) Sejiri Merfolk is crap, don't even try it. Against control or combo it's either non-factor or win-more, leaving us only with aggro - and how do you think a 2/1 first striker will perform against Wild Nacatls, Tarmogoyfs and KotRs backed up with a ton of removal? Even if you have a lord out, they'll either have bigger creatures anyway or they'll just burn it. Moreover, Sejiri Merfolk requires playing with fetches and shocklands (Wanderwine Hubs, Seachrome Coasts etc. won't work here), which pain us - and paining yourself is the last thing you want to do when facing Zoo.

    2) Path to Exile is much more reasonable than Sejiri Merfolk, but Dismember invalidated most of its uses. Before New Phyrexia you had to splash a second color if you needed removal: now in many cases you can just add 2-3 Dismembers and call it a day.

    3) Sygg, River Guide is quite powerful card and having 2 or even 3 copies could be very useful. The problem with this card though is its hunger for mana - it made sense back in the day in Standard or Extended when Merfolk played 24 lands but with only 20 lands i just don't see it.

    4) Sideboard options: sure, Reveillark is fun and all but Modern is much faster than old Standard or Extended and casting a 5 CMC spell with 20 lands isn't exactly reliable. Burrenton Forge-Tender was nice against Volcanic Fallout but against Punishing Fire... well, not that much.

    TL;DR: With slower, 23- or 24-land version (Cryptic Commands and all that) splashing white for Syggs, PtEs and better sideboard might make sense but with fast, 20- or 21-land version it's better to stick with monoU.
    - What are letters?
    - Kinda like mediaglyphics except they're all black, and they're tiny, they don't move, they're old and boring and really hard to read. But you can use'em to make short words for long words.

  19. #19
    Here I Rule!!!!!!!!!!
    Phoenix Ignition's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2008
    Location

    Minneapolis MN
    Posts

    2,287

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    So I might as well chime in seeing as I just took down a small local tournament with the 'folk. I decided to run them because in my testing of other decks I found that nearly every other one is just too damn inconsistent, and generally loses to itself about 1 out of 5 games at least, whereas mono blue merfolk won't do that.

    Here's my list:
    // Lands
    2 Ghost Quarter
    4 Mutavault
    15 Island
    1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge

    // Creatures
    3 Coralhelm Commander
    2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
    4 Silvergill Adept
    4 Merfolk Sovereign
    4 Lord of Atlantis
    4 Cursecatcher
    3 Wake Thrasher
    4 Merrow Reejerey

    // Spells
    2 Dismember
    2 Spreading Seas
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    4 Cryptic Command

    // Sideboard
    SB: 2 Spreading Seas
    SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 2 Peer Through Depths
    SB: 2 Echoing Truth
    SB: 3 Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 Bribery
    SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 1 Threads of Disloyalty

    I took out Aether Vial because the main awesome thing about it in legacy is that it gets around countermagic, whereas in Modern I'd much rather just have higher threat density.

    Wakethrasher was amazing in testing, but I never drew him during the tournament.

    Brief Report:

    Round 1 Time sieve/ tezzeret combo.
    Game 1: I beat him down before he gets much going. Howling mine gives me too many good cards.
    Game 2: I misplay by not reading tezzeret's ultimate (assumed it cost more)
    Game 3: I turn 4 kill him on the play.

    Round 2 Green white aggro
    Game 1: I take a lot of damage before I stabilize with 4 lords out and eventually alpha strike
    Game 2: He keeps a 1 lander without drawing a 2nd very quickly (but has double path + white lightning bolt thing)

    Round 3 Big zoo
    This guy think's he's really good and after losing bitches for the rest of the time I was in earshot :-(
    Game 1: He's on the play and quickly gets 3 goyfs out (with the help of GSZ) and I don't get a relic
    Game 2: We both play creatures but Relic keeps his double goyf and knight of the reliquary tiny. He hits double bloodbraid but doesn't understand that he can't continue attacking with them if he wants to win. He continue's the aggro role when he really doesn't have the resources. With relic's help his creatures are smaller than mine and I win.
    Game 3: Here's the life totals:
    Me Him
    20 20
    16 18
    11 15
    5 12
    1 0
    He's on the play and gets out an early nacatl which I dismember. He then plays turn 3 Elspeth and begins bashing me with exalted flying soldiers. I get to hit him with a 3/3 mutavault while he's attacking me. He also drops teeg so to win I need to echoing truth it and then drop a cryptic command, tapping his shit and bouncing his manland. Then I use my other echoing truth to bounce the token he made and alpha strike him for exactly 12.

    Choices:
    Relic: Half of the combo decks use graveyard recursion. Goyfs and Knights are still the best creatures of the format. Grim Lavamancer HURTS. Cycles for 2. I think it's an amazing main deck card.

    Spreading Seas: Worried about 12 post, didn't run into one. Also Grove of Burnwillows/punishing fire.

    No Vials: Vials are always hit or miss, you need the right amount of creatures and the vial at the right time for it to be amazing. Without any filtering, I just felt like I'd rather be casting fishies.

    Cryptic Command was made for this type of deck.

    Wake Thrasher is great even against decks that run a lot of removal, since they will likely be targeting your lords before you drop him and hit for 8ish.
    Last edited by Phoenix Ignition; 08-30-2011 at 02:08 PM.

  20. #20
    My cat's name is Tarmogoyf!
    Sturtzilla's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2010
    Location

    Franklin, PA; Cleveland, OH
    Posts

    259

    Re: [Deck] Merfolk

    @ Pheonix Ignition

    Thanks for the deck list and report. I have a handful of questions for you, if you would indulge them. Thanks in advance.

    1. How was Wake Thrasher? I had forgotten about this guy. He seems like he could be really great.

    2. How was Cryptic as the only counter spell?

    3. Is there a specific purpose Minamo is used for?

    4. Could you please explain your board? I could be completely wrong but it seems a little random.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)