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Thread: [INN] Spoiler discussion

  1. #201

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    An amusing red card:

    Blasphemous Act
    Sorcery
    ~ costs less to cast for each creature OTB

    ~ deals 13 damage to each creature.

    Also known as WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW, INNISTRAD?

  2. #202
    Just call me Dick.
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    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Clearly not a good set for triskaidekaphobics.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  3. #203
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    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    Clearly not a good set for triskaidekaphobics.
    +1

  4. #204

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post

    Assume you Intuition for 3 Ruinators. They give you one and the other two go to your yard. Unless you have a random third creature in your yard, you can't cast the Ruinator they gave you.
    Not very difficult, though: creatures go to the yard quite frequently, whether because of Misstep, burn, removal, or the normal course of the game. You obviously have to pick your time. Powering it out quickly is difficult without Vial or Unearth/Reanimate/something of the sort, and like you I'm not convinced that a deck like that is going to work very well. Powering it out later, when it can make a real difference, however, is fairly easy. Indeed, the first Intuition is not likely to resolve or, if it does, is probably (as you note) better spent grabbing something else, like Natural Order. That's fine. I certainly don't advocate twisting yourself into knots to cast it. Intuition is just one of many options that makes casting the Ruinator more feasible, and it's worth pointing out that Intuition gives you excessively easy access to the Ruinator (since it can be cast from the graveyard; if you don't have it returned to your hand, you've effectively Intuitioned for two cards instead of one). In other words, you've got the potential for increased effectiveness from your late game and your Intuitions.

    That means you Intuitioned for three dead cards, which seems terrible. Alternatively, you could Intuition for a Ruinator and two dredge creatures, but then you're playing a bad dredge deck.
    Well, again, you would rarely Intuition for them with no ulterior motive/backup plan. If you don't want to have Life from the Loam in hand/no immediate effect, and you have no way of benefiting from that kind of Intuition pile, you'd have to be a dolt to go looking for it. Once again, I'm merely noting that there's potential for some kind of fit, and it needn't be far-fetched.

    And what happens if, say, you cast your Ruinator, exile three dead dorks, and then lose him to Path or Swords? Assuming you saved at least one Ruinator when you cast your first one (which means you need two unrelated creatures in the graveyard), in order to make a second one you need three fresh creatures. This seems like an absolute ton of dudes for any non-Dredge deck, which cuts into the space you have left over for counters to protect him (thereby increasing the chances that your Ruinators will get successfully killed). I mean, maybe in the Snapcast Mage deck that flashes back a ton of cheap, conditional counters, but...
    It is, you're right. And that's the real opportunity cost to playing the Ruinator. I think it's feasible in a deck that has counterspells (especially Misstep), and one that's not necessarily trying to play it ASAP. The longer a game goes on, the more likely your opponent is to have exhausted his or her StPs and PtEs, and the more impact Ruinator will have on the game state. If you're not actively trying to cast it, but are rather just happy to see it somehow in the mid-to-late game, then you have a viable strategy using it, since you're not actively relying on it. But there are also a fair a number of decks against which one need not worry so much: Merfolk, Goblins, Affinity, NO RUG, mono-black, etc. I guess the question is whether the risk is worth it. Personally, I think it is, since I'm confident in my shell's ability to handle RFG-based removal, and I'm not at all worries about over-relying on the Ruinator, since it would just represent an ancillary option.

    Ultimately, only time and testing will tell. I've done some limited testing (mere goldfishing), however, and I'm already very happy with how it's shaping up. How it'll fare against a real deck is something I have yet to test, but will soon get around to doing (it's also worth noting that the deck I'm testing it in might just not be the right home for it at all, although I think it has the flexibility to be a good home for a couple copies).
    "I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

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  5. #205

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    I don't think the creature is worth it. It's not that much of an upgrade on Tombstalker, Worm Harvest, or Knight, and doesn't mesh well with the game plan of basically any blue deck in Legacy at the moment. And even when you successfully get one into play, he's just a big dumb beater.

  6. #206
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    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    If I remember correctly, some people tried to build Survival-less Vengewine/Survival of the Fittest decks that actually didn't suck, but just weren't outright broken. Skaab Ruinator might work in something like that.
    I have trouble seeing it work in most other decks, since it either requires too much set-up and/or is too conditional for the aggro decks, or does too little for the control decks. In control, not gaining life makes it a poor substitute for Mystic + Batterskull, and being fairly slow makes it a poor substitute for Goyf, Knight of the Reliquary or Tombstalker.

  7. #207
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    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    It does have the benefit of being larger than a Batterskull which is an important point. Also, have you ever watched BUG control try to kill something like this? It's pretty funny.

    It's borderline in my book. I'll consider it, but I'm not about to go building fresh decks around it.

  8. #208
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    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Mirror mad phantasm has some absolute brokenness going for it. A deck with creature tutors and a 1 off phantasm can mill alot of cards. Is this something like a fixed hermit Druid? What happens if you put the ability on the stack and in response exile the phantasm, will the ability still resolve and mill the whole deck?

    If you played just 1 copy of mirror mad phantasm, you could on average mill half your deck. There has to be some broken shenanigans that are possible with it. Having said that, the card it 5 to cast and hella slow.

    Entomb + singleton phantasm followed by a reanimate is pretty strong IMO. Mill half your deck and do the broken baby. Possibility a new dredge type? I can see a deck trying to assemble entomb + reanimate combo and fill the rest of the deck with dread returns, narcos, bridges, ichorids and d return targets. Basically dredge without dredgers.

    I figured out another combo: body double + phantasm is infinite mill. Buried alive for phantasm, body double and sutured ghoul. Reanimate body double, use the ability and since there is no phantasm in the deck, you mill your whole deck. Flashback dread return for ghoul and voilą, gg.

    Instead of buried alive, you can also use fauna shaman and volrath's shapeshifter. You can mill your whole deck next turn and just go for hasty venge wins.

  9. #209
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    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Finally Burning Tog has the ultimate Wish target:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavius The Great View Post
    Germany seems to find me influential. Have you ever Googled "Nourishing Lich"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil Credo View Post
    No, Peter_Rotten, you are the problems.

  10. #210
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    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Excellent find on Mirror-Mad Phantasm, ivanpei. I guess the new guy is WoTC's Standard/Modern-friendly attempt at Hermit Druid/Cephalid Illustionist? The new card costs more than either and it's ability requires mana into addition to casting/cheating the card onto the battlefield.

  11. #211
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    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Lab maniac 2U
    Human Wizard
    If you would draw a card while your library has no cards in it, win the game
    2/2

    i will love building around this !!

  12. #212
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    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Lab maniac 2U
    Human Wizard
    If you would draw a card while your library has no cards in it, win the game
    2/2

    i will love building around this !!
    Doomsday pile!?

  13. #213

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Lab maniac 2U
    Human Wizard
    If you would draw a card while your library has no cards in it, win the game
    2/2

    i will love building around this !!
    Paradigm Shift

  14. #214

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Butcher's Cleaver (3)

    Artifact - Equipment
    Equipped creature gets +3/+0.
    As long as equipped creature is a Human, it has lifelink.
    Equip (3)


    Pretty dumb - but the first thing that popped into my head was "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Fresh meat!" ;)

  15. #215

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ivanpei View Post
    Mirror mad phantasm has some absolute brokenness going for it. A deck with creature tutors and a 1 off phantasm can mill alot of cards. Is this something like a fixed hermit Druid? What happens if you put the ability on the stack and in response exile the phantasm, will the ability still resolve and mill the whole deck?
    Since it has an intervening if-clause, it doesn't work.

    Quote Originally Posted by ivanpei View Post
    Entomb + singleton phantasm followed by a reanimate is pretty strong IMO. Mill half your deck and do the broken baby.
    What's broken on this play? In other words: What's better than reanimating anything else? You need 1U to activate the ability, then you shuffle him back, then you probably mill half your lib. The important part is probably. You can easily fizzle here and just mill 10 irrelevant cards, or just part of the broken. Sure, for 1U you can do it again, but why not just reanimate something actually good?

    Quote Originally Posted by ivanpei View Post
    I figured out another combo: body double + phantasm is infinite mill. Buried alive for phantasm, body double and sutured ghoul. Reanimate body double, use the ability and since there is no phantasm in the deck, you mill your whole deck. Flashback dread return for ghoul and voilą, gg.
    This actually works, but is nothing better than any other buried alive triplet (which doesn't see any play either).

  16. #216

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Octopusman View Post
    Butcher's Cleaver (3)

    Artifact - Equipment
    Equipped creature gets +3/+0.
    As long as equipped creature is a Human, it has lifelink.
    Equip (3)

    Pretty dumb - but the first thing that popped into my head was "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Fresh meat!" ;)
    The first thing I thought of was Uncle Istvan. LOL.

  17. #217

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
    The first thing I thought of was Uncle Istvan. LOL.
    I liked the generic feel of the oldest sets. It allowed the imagination to flourish rather than have someone tell you what the story is.

    Arabian Knights was different because it was an allusion to external tales not entirely created by WoTC.

    I felt artifacts like Icy and even jayemdae tome were more interesting and mysterious because the player built in their mind their own perception of what that artifact was. Keeping things unexplained can do wonders for enjoyment but I totally understand that their current model is successful.

    There wasn't any official WoTC lore for Uncle Istvan beyond the flavor text on the card (right?). Things like this new assistant, lab master, and rooftop storm is much more guided. Not to mention the full blown stories they have now.

    At least if WoTC is going to make stories to sell product, I'm digging this coming block as much or more than Mirage-Weatherlight. Although, I am a major softy for Urza/Mishra/Barrin stuff. Aside from the same planeswalkers being done over and over and over, I'm just loving the flavor of the new set. The themes existed long before magic and I think that I appreciate it a little more because of that.


    -

    It's strange that human tribal wants to be WG. It's just awkward that one of the human lords turns into something that isn't a human lord. I guess him flipped is worth it.

    Parish, W making monk, mayor seems like a solid start. That WW vigilance, first striker pro-block is going to be a house in standard I think. I'm not sold on the card draw of the 2W guy. Maybe it'll be decent in standard. However, I'm not certain that WG humans can be a tier 1 deck but I don't know squat about standard.
    Last edited by Octopusman; 09-08-2011 at 01:54 AM. Reason: fixed tag

  18. #218

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Lab maniac 2U
    Human Wizard
    If you would draw a card while your library has no cards in it, win the game
    2/2

    i will love building around this !!
    + Leveler + Gitaxian Probe/Street Wraith.

    Might actually be viable being that the two combo pieces are both creatures and one is easily ramped out as an artifact.

  19. #219

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    ^^ And If I lightning bolt your maniac, you not only fizzle and don't win, you straight lose.

  20. #220

    Re: [INN] Spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonius View Post
    ^^ And If I lightning bolt your maniac, you not only fizzle and don't win, you straight lose.
    Good thing for Mental Misstep.

    It's fragile, sure, but most combo is. The best thing going for it is how easy to tutor creatures and it can be str8 blue/artifact.

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