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Thread: Damia, Sage of Dredge

  1. #1

    Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Pics! 22-xii-2012

    General: Damia, Sage of Stone

    Shambling Shell
    Life from the Loam
    Golgari Thug
    Stinkweed Imp
    Golgari Grave-Troll

    Viridian Zealot
    Fleshbag Marauder
    Sylvok Replica
    Slum Reaper
    Shriekmaw
    Acidic Slime
    Sheoldred, Whispering One
    Attrition
    Maelstrom Pulse
    Pernicious Deed
    Beast Within
    Damnation
    Grave Pact

    Drowned Rusalka
    Mulldrifter
    Skullclamp
    Sylvan Library
    Fauna Shaman
    Trinket Mage
    Entomb
    Vampiric Tutor
    Demonic Tutor
    Survival of the Fittest
    Birthing Pod

    Eternal Witness
    Archaeomancer
    Genesis
    Havengul Lich
    Tortured Existence
    Oversold Cemetery
    Regrowth
    Dread Return

    Deathrite Shaman
    Korozda Guildmage
    Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
    Wonder
    Elixir of Immortality
    Golgari Germination

    Sadistic Hypnotist
    Mind Twist
    Mind Shatter
    Mind Slash

    Phantasmal Image
    Splinterfright
    Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
    Phyrexian Metamorph
    Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
    Triskelion
    Worm Harvest

    Birds of Paradise
    Hermit Druid
    Sakura-Tribe Elder
    Viridian Emissary
    Yavimaya Elder
    Solemn Simulacrum
    Sol Ring
    Chromatic Lantern

    6 Forest
    2 Island
    5 Swamp
    Evolving Wilds
    Terramorphic Expanse
    Polluted Delta
    Verdant Catacombs
    Misty Rainforest
    Underground Sea
    Bayou
    Tropical Island
    Watery Grave
    Overgrown Tomb
    Breeding Pool
    Dimir Aqueduct
    Golgari Rot Farm
    Simic Growth Chamber
    Command Tower
    Tranquil Thicket
    Lonely Sandbar
    Barren Moor
    Dryad Arbor
    Cephalid Coliseum
    Bojuka Bog
    Bazaar of Baghdad
    Dust Bowl
    Volrath's Stronghold

    Current as of 17-iii-2013

    I've been working on this deck for over two years now, and it's by far my favorite EDH deck. The goal was to make a deck that played as closely to a Legacy dredge deck as possible in EDH; after a long journey and a lot of learning experiences (Bridge from Below is not a good card in EDH? Whoda thunk it), I've ended up here.

    Some notes on the deck:
    • I realize that a turbo dredge deck, that mills itself every turn with reckless abandon, exists in EDH. That deck is almost certainly Karador, Ghost Chieftain. The issue for this deck is that it is hard - or rather, pointless - to start milling without a way to recur stuff already in play. Karador is one such outlet that you will basically always have, so that deck can be much more all-in. That said, dredge decks like that tend to be super soft to random Bojuka Bogs and Tormod's Crypts, particularly late in the game when your graveyard is full.
    • I prefer Damia to Mimeoplasm because Damia lends herself better to a grinding control strategy, which I like. The issue with Mimeoplasm is that this deck very rarely wants to exile its own cards and I don't want to rely on my opponents to make my general work.
    • This deck does not have a ton of use for countermagic or other on-color EDH staples. You get plenty of value out of being able to make the same plays over and over and over and over and over and over and...
    Last edited by Aggro_zombies; 03-17-2013 at 06:41 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Is this meant to be played 1v1 or Multiplayer? You lack a lot of the best mana rocks and I definitely feel that's what makes a deck like this tick. You are also missing some pretty rudimentary additions like Vampiric Tutor and Lim-Dul's Vault.

    I also have a Damia Dredge deck that I built when Damia was spoiled. It seems I take a very different route, going for a more Reanimator style as opposed to aggro:

    Commander

    1x Damia, Sage of Stone

    Land (35)

    2x Forest
    2x Island
    2x Swamp
    1x Dakmor Salvage
    1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1x Breeding Pool
    1x Simic Growth Chamber
    1x Dimir Aqueduct
    1x Golgari Rot Farm
    1x Overgrown Tomb
    1x Watery Grave
    1x Barren Moor
    1x Lonely Sandbar
    1x Polluted Delta
    1x Tranquil Thicket
    1x Cephalid Coliseum
    1x Dust Bowl
    1x High Market
    1x Phyrexian Tower
    1x Volrath's Stronghold
    1x Wasteland
    1x Strip Mine
    1x Bayou
    1x Tropical Island
    1x Underground Sea
    1x Drowned Catacomb
    1x Misty Rainforest
    1x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Darkslick Shores
    1x Hinterland Harbor
    1x Woodland Cemetery
    1x Nephalia Drownyard

    Instant (12)

    1x Lim-Dul's Vault
    1x Trickbind
    1x Voidslime
    1x Muddle the Mixture
    1x Stifle
    1x Entomb
    1x Brainstorm
    1x Forbid
    1x Intuition
    1x Vampiric Tutor
    1x Mystical Tutor
    1x Visions of Beyond

    Enchantment (5)

    1x Animate Dead
    1x Phyrexian Arena
    1x Diabolic Servitude
    1x Survival of the Fittest
    1x Necromancy

    Sorcery (14)

    1x Dread Return
    1x Life from the Loam
    1x Stitch Together
    1x Breakthrough
    1x Deep Analysis
    1x Buried Alive
    1x Careful Study
    1x Victimize
    1x Yawgmoth's Will
    1x Living Death
    1x Reanimate
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Runic Repetition
    1x Creeping Renaissance

    Artifact (10)

    1x Simic Signet
    1x Dimir Signet
    1x Golgari Signet
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Skullclamp
    1x Lion's Eye Diamond
    1x Mana Vault
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Mana Crypt
    1x Grimoire of the Dead

    Planeswalker (2)

    1x Jace, Memory Adept
    1x Liliana of the Veil

    Creature (21)

    1x Riftsweeper
    1x Magus of the Bazaar
    1x Golgari Grave-Troll
    1x Stinkweed Imp
    1x Eternal Witness
    1x Putrid Imp
    1x Millikin
    1x Hermit Druid
    1x Ashen Ghoul
    1x Kederekt Leviathan
    1x Lord of Extinction
    1x Bloodghast
    1x Avenger of Zendikar
    1x Primeval Titan
    1x Necrotic Ooze
    1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
    1x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
    1x The Mimeoplasm
    1x Jace's Archivist
    1x Mirror-Mad Phantasm
    1x Laboratory Maniac

  3. #3

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    This is meant for multiplayer. It is not as good as it could be because then it would draw too much hate. As it stands, people usually gang up on the deck in an average multiplayer game.

    Actually, the "best" dredge deck is probably Jund-colored Hermit Druid with Necrotic Ooze, Devoted Druid, Morselhoarder, and Shivan Hellkite to kill everyone at once on turn 2-3. I would build that deck to run through 4-man pods at GP side events or something, but it's a bit excessive for a local metagame with a generally low power level.

    Also, one issue with mana rocks is that this deck really wants creatures (there are a variety of effects that want them as fuel or count them in graveyards), and mana rocks aren't creatures. That means they would have to take spell slots, and those are really tight. I had fewer creatures in the past, but I feel like ratio of creatures to non-creatures is good right now.

  4. #4
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    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post
    Actually, the "best" dredge deck is probably Jund-colored Hermit Druid with Necrotic Ooze, Devoted Druid, Morselhoarder, and Shivan Hellkite to kill everyone at once on turn 2-3. I would build that deck to run through 4-man pods at GP side events or something, but it's a bit excessive for a local metagame with a generally low power level.
    This makes the Johnny in me smile...I assume you'd run something like Adun Oakenshield at the helm?

  5. #5

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    This makes the Johnny in me smile...I assume you'd run something like Adun Oakenshield at the helm?
    Yeah, probably. Even with all the tutoring power you would have, the games can still go long, and Adun is good for grinding out advantage.

    That said, I really wish Glint-Eye Nephilim was legal as a general. In blue you get Narcomeoba, Laboratory Maniac, draw, and counters. In the Jund build you need to run a bunch of crappy guys to reliably flashback Dread Return (like Dregscape Zombie and Blooghast) and you only have discard to make sure the DR will resolve. I guess you could go five-color, but meh. There's little benefit to white in an all-in strategy like this.

  6. #6
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    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Yeah, it's too bad the 4 color cycle isn't legendary...I think they open up some interesting deck ideas (other than dredge). Here's hoping R&D delivers 4 color legends sooner rather than later.

    Back on topic, it does seem like blue gives more benefit in terms of enablers for this sort of strategy...even if I've been itching to break Necrotic Ooze since it was spoiled.

    What about Forbidden Alchemy as a sometimes way to grab that Oversold Cemetery or one of your Regrowth effects? The flashback is a nice bonus too even if it's pretty expensive, and it works out pretty well after you Dread Return a Laboratory Maniac. Worst case it grabs you a land and you throw three creatures in your yard.

  7. #7

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    One thing I've found from practice is that I really dislike flashback in this deck. The cards themselves are usually a touch more expensive on one or the other end of the spell (either cmc or flashback) for one thing. However, the biggest issue is that this deck plays a lot like a control deck: when you're operating at or near full power, there is nothing you can do that you can't do over and over and over and over and over and...you don't want to flash back your spells unless it's an emergency or you're about to win because you get more value out of just recurring and recasting them.

    I have been toying with a Karador deck that is more all-in than this deck, and that build gets more mileage out of flashback spells because it wants to live out of its graveyard to a greater extent than this deck. It's actually kind of amusing because I feel like the deck wants Riftsweeper and Pull from Eternity so that you can flash back a card, get it again, and just keep operating out of your graveyard. I'm not sure how good such a deck would be, and experience has taught me that a deck that committed to the graveyard gets seriously hurt by wayward Crypts and Bojuka Bogs, but I might build it. It looks like fun.

  8. #8
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    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    You could always run cards like Leyline of Sanctity or Witchbane Orb if you're really worried about Bog/Crypt/Wheel of Sun and Moon/Spellbomb...though it doesn't really do anything against Relic.

    Or, there's always True Believer as a potential reanimation target.

  9. #9

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    You could always run cards like Leyline of Sanctity or Witchbane Orb if you're really worried about Bog/Crypt/Wheel of Sun and Moon/Spellbomb...though it doesn't really do anything against Relic.

    Or, there's always True Believer as a potential reanimation target.
    True Believer is a little bit more palatable than the other options you listed, largely because they don't do nearly as much as I would like them to. I guess there are a lot of targeted player effects in EDH, but meh.

    There's also Spirit of the Hearth at six, and he's actually a decent beater. Solitary Confinement also seems fine in a Karador deck. Hmm...

  10. #10
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    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post
    True Believer is a little bit more palatable than the other options you listed, largely because they don't do nearly as much as I would like them to. I guess there are a lot of targeted player effects in EDH, but meh.

    There's also Spirit of the Hearth at six, and he's actually a decent beater. Solitary Confinement also seems fine in a Karador deck. Hmm...
    I always forget about Spirit. Solitary Confinement seems ok if you can get Necropotence or something online - the discard fits the whole "dredge" style...but you'd need some way to draw cards to take it over the top unless you go all in on Hermit Druid or something.

  11. #11

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    I always forget about Spirit. Solitary Confinement seems ok if you can get Necropotence or something online - the discard fits the whole "dredge" style...but you'd need some way to draw cards to take it over the top unless you go all in on Hermit Druid or something.
    Well, Karador would likely run Bloodgift Demon, Phyrexian Arena, Life from the Loam and cycling lands, and possibly one-shot things like Harmonize, so I don't think supporting Confinement is an issue.

    I don't Necropotence in dredge strategies because it forces you to exile cards you would discard, which makes it too hard to get dredged cards back into the graveyard.

  12. #12
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    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post
    Well, Karador would likely run Bloodgift Demon, Phyrexian Arena, Life from the Loam and cycling lands, and possibly one-shot things like Harmonize, so I don't think supporting Confinement is an issue.

    I don't Necropotence in dredge strategies because it forces you to exile cards you would discard, which makes it too hard to get dredged cards back into the graveyard.
    Sounds like the draw engine in my Glissa deck. Something to keep in mind is that sometimes the cycling lands coming into play tapped is a big tempo hit in the early game when your hand is otherwise fantastic and you need the mana more than the card. I run into it often enough on just the 4 B/G lands, so I imagine it will come up even more with 6 (or 7 if you decide to run the colorless one). Once it's up and running though, it's nothing short of amazing...especially if you can get a Strip Mine or Wasteland in the mix to keep your opponents honest. I've actually been considering dropping the Saga ones recently, but haven't pulled the trigger.

    As for Necro, I ran out and picked up one of those Deckmaster foils only to cut it from my deck 3 weeks later. Too many Mindslavers running around, and it tends to paint a huge bulls eye on your back...can't imagine why...

    I like where this discussion is headed. Seems like Innistrad gave the deck a little gift in Unburial Rights. Granted, there's much better (and cheaper) reanimation out there, but the flashback is certainly nice.

  13. #13

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    Sounds like the draw engine in my Glissa deck. Something to keep in mind is that sometimes the cycling lands coming into play tapped is a big tempo hit in the early game when your hand is otherwise fantastic and you need the mana more than the card. I run into it often enough on just the 4 B/G lands, so I imagine it will come up even more with 6 (or 7 if you decide to run the colorless one). Once it's up and running though, it's nothing short of amazing...especially if you can get a Strip Mine or Wasteland in the mix to keep your opponents honest. I've actually been considering dropping the Saga ones recently, but haven't pulled the trigger.

    As for Necro, I ran out and picked up one of those Deckmaster foils only to cut it from my deck 3 weeks later. Too many Mindslavers running around, and it tends to paint a huge bulls eye on your back...can't imagine why...

    I like where this discussion is headed. Seems like Innistrad gave the deck a little gift in Unburial Rights. Granted, there's much better (and cheaper) reanimation out there, but the flashback is certainly nice.
    Well, Karador is interesting. Here's how the games with Damia usually play out:

    1) Set up an early defense with ramp spells and utility dorks. Build to five to six mana.
    2) Get some sort of way to recur stuff and start dredging.
    3) Assemble a ridiculous late game and crush.

    Moving from #1 to #2 is difficult, in part because the boundary between them is ill-defined and in part because you really need at least a Regrowth in hand before you start dredging; stuff in the graveyard doesn't get you anywhere if you can't get any of it out. Karador lets you make this transition easily because he is himself a way to get stuff back, he's easy to cast, and you will almost always have him.

    However, the downside is that BGW is actually bad at getting non-permanent cards out of graveyards while blue has Mnemonic Wall, Call to Mind and a few others that allow you to really get the most out of your graveyard. I mean, yeah, Karador also has Regrowth and Nostalgic Dreams and the rest, but they don't recur themselves and so are completely useless if you mill them without a Witness. That, combined with better draw, is why I stick with blue over white.

    That's why I think Karador will want flashback cards, Pull from Eternity, and Riftsweeper, while Damia really doesn't. You don't have to recur flashback spells and you're less concerned with exiling them because it's hard for you to really abuse them through repeated casting in the first place. I would want to start Unburial Rites, Spider Spawning, Dread Return, Creeping Renaissance, Roar of the Wurm, and test out Moment's Peace, Grizzly Fate, Ray of Revelation, and Divine Reckoning.

  14. #14
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    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post
    Well, Karador is interesting. Here's how the games with Damia usually play out:

    1) Set up an early defense with ramp spells and utility dorks. Build to five to six mana.
    2) Get some sort of way to recur stuff and start dredging.
    3) Assemble a ridiculous late game and crush.

    Moving from #1 to #2 is difficult, in part because the boundary between them is ill-defined and in part because you really need at least a Regrowth in hand before you start dredging; stuff in the graveyard doesn't get you anywhere if you can't get any of it out. Karador lets you make this transition easily because he is himself a way to get stuff back, he's easy to cast, and you will almost always have him.

    However, the downside is that BGW is actually bad at getting non-permanent cards out of graveyards while blue has Mnemonic Wall, Call to Mind and a few others that allow you to really get the most out of your graveyard. I mean, yeah, Karador also has Regrowth and Nostalgic Dreams and the rest, but they don't recur themselves and so are completely useless if you mill them without a Witness. That, combined with better draw, is why I stick with blue over white.

    That's why I think Karador will want flashback cards, Pull from Eternity, and Riftsweeper, while Damia really doesn't. You don't have to recur flashback spells and you're less concerned with exiling them because it's hard for you to really abuse them through repeated casting in the first place. I would want to start Unburial Rites, Spider Spawning, Dread Return, Creeping Renaissance, Roar of the Wurm, and test out Moment's Peace, Grizzly Fate, Ray of Revelation, and Divine Reckoning.
    The lack of blue does make it hard to get non-creature cards back. I mean, I guess there's always Yawgmoth's Will which is great right up until you dredge it off.

    I definitely see where you're coming from - the way it stands right now blue is the better choice for consistency's sake. Who knows, maybe they'll flesh out the flashback suite in the next couple sets and print the tools we need to take this archetype over the top.

    To get back on the blue train, what do you think about Forbidden Alchemy and Armored Skaab for the Damia version? In both cases they're a worse Golgari Thug, but it would give you a couple more "dredgers" if you feel that you need them. Also, Liliana of the Veil seems like a good fit here - it gives you another discard outlet for your dredgers and it can potentially slow your opponents down some.

  15. #15

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    To get back on the blue train, what do you think about Forbidden Alchemy and Armored Skaab for the Damia version? In both cases they're a worse Golgari Thug, but it would give you a couple more "dredgers" if you feel that you need them.
    I think they're too low-impact to add. Skaab is a Horned Turtle after it mills, which is just bleh, and I could never see wanting to reanimate it. Alchemy is so-so; I might consider it if it cost two, but at three it just feels really meh, even though (or perhaps despite) it has flashback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    Also, Liliana of the Veil seems like a good fit here - it gives you another discard outlet for your dredgers and it can potentially slow your opponents down some.
    It seems like a card that has a very low battlefield life expectancy. The people who care about having to discard will go after her right away, and Cruel Edicts are not exactly hot stuff in multiplayer EDH. I could see the ultimate taking someone out of the game, but I can't see her regularly getting to that point without the stars really aligning. She might be better in Karador, which has more board control available to it, but I'm not sure about her here.

    EDIT: Although, now that I think about it, she might be good in the midgame when people's hands are full of all kinds of the expensive, splashy garbage people tend to love in EDH. 1BB to make everyone discard one and fog someone is still a little suspect to me, but it might be worth it.

  16. #16

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    DP because I've made some changes recently.

    -Sensei's Divining Top, +Expedition Map

    Top is great when you're not dredging and next to useless when you are; getting an extra dredge out of it before dredging it away is usually what happens. However, if I cut Top I have only two Trinket Mage targets. Granted, they're both really important (one is Sol Ring and the other is graveyard hate insurance), but I like a little more variety than that, so I'm going to try out Map. Aside from regular, color-producing lands, Map has good targets in Drownyard, Dust Bowl, Cephalid Coliseum, and Stronghold.

    -Viridian Emissary, +Unearth

    Emissary seemed like a neat idea at the time I added it because it was like a Tribe-Elder that I could sacrifice for more profit. The problem is, it's not like a Tribe-Elder at all: if people really think you need the land, they'll attack you with evasive guys, so you're forced to find some other way to cash in your Emissary. Unearth has a bunch of use: Hermit Druid, Fauna Shaman, Eternal Witness, Kira, and Splinterfright are all great targets, but most of your other utility guys are cheap and can be reanimated this way.

    -Mirror-Mad Phantasm, +Keiga, the Tide Star

    Man, I really wanted Phantasm to be good. Then I killed myself with it. Twice. So yeah...Phantasm has a relatively narrow range in time and how-many-cards-you-have-left where it's great and (mostly) safe to use, but after that you can do better with just dredging (more control) or Hermit Druid (you'll probably hit more cards on average). Phantasm being really random was the biggest letdown, although a five-power flying guy is nothing to sneeze at. That left me with two options: either I could add Skittles/Thornling to give my Necrotic Ooze haste and attempt to Ooze everyone else out at once, or I could swap Phantasm for a more reliable card. I chose the latter and will be trying out Keiga for a little bit: I've had my eye on her for a while and she's pretty good with my various sacrifice guys or fine as a beater alone.

    -Terastodon, +Magus of the Abyss

    One test for how much I like a creature is how often I reanimate it outside of situations where I absolutely need it and nothing else will do. For example, I reanimate Sheoldred often because she's very very good; I also reanimate Wurmcoil often because it stabilizes against ground attacks very well. But Terastodon...when I reanimate Terastodon, it's because I need to blow up three enchantments or artifacts controlled (usually) by different players and I need to do so now so Replica doesn't work. Outside of that specific scenario, I never really feel like reanimating him, so I thought I'd try replacing him for a while to see if I miss him. His replacement is Magus of the Abyss, in over regular old The Abyss because (a) I don't own one and (b) keeping my creature count up is important for this deck. Magus has been on my shortlist of things to add for a while, so I'll try it out.

    -2 Forest, -1 Swamp, + cycle of Ravnica bouncelands

    I'll see if this helps the mana any.

    Things I'm Still Considering:

    Azure Mage: Extra instant-speed dredges or just extra cards seems fine, but 3U is kind of pricey. Dimir Guildmage may just be better because I tap out a lot and Guildmage has an extra ability and an extra toughness.

    Liliana of the Veil: She's probably better than Mindslicer, but I'm reluctant to cut too many more creatures. That said, I don't even have a Liliana 2 right now, so it will have to wait.

    Laboratory Maniac: I'm kind of wondering what a Lab Maniac package would look like in this deck. The deck would likely be very different and very focused on finding and protecting a Hermit Druid so you can deck yourself and D Return a Maniac, but it's worth keeping in mind.

  17. #17

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Dark Ascension update time.

    Overall, DKA is kind of disappointing, and not just for this deck. There are two cards I can see being good for Damia (although, admittedly, they're really good): Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Havengul Lich. The former is almost a global lord since there are few humans in the deck, and I can get a lot of mileage out of sacrificing my guys (more on that in a sec). The latter is just a sweet reanimator guy.

    So, changes:

    + Mikaeus, -Oona, Queen of the Fae
    Oona was only in there to make my Necrotic Ooze combo a legitimate finisher. Unfortunately, without a way to give haste to Necrotic Ooze, I rarely got to make infinite mana, and neither Thornling nor Skittles felt good enough on their own to add (although Skittles is very close). I'm fine with Necrotic Ooze playing like a Wrath and occasionally doing something else sweet, and if I decide in the future I want an infinite finisher, Triskelion works wonders with Mikey here.

    +Havengul Lich, -Vengeful Pharaoh
    Not being optional and triggering on damage make Pharaoh bad. I'm a little leery about cutting removal for non-removal, but Pharaoh can only generously be thought of as removal, so it's probably fine.

    +Compulsion, -Oblivion Stone
    One thing that bothers me is how often cards with dredge will get stuck in my hand. Previously, I had only Survival and Zombie Infestation (sometimes Drowned Rusalka and Fauna Shaman) to get them back into the graveyard, but I felt like I wanted one more card. Compulsion seems good enough here. Oblivion Stone gets cut for being kind of clunky.

    +Vampiric Tutor, -Reanimate
    Reanimate is almost very good. The problem for this deck was the life loss. Mana efficiency is a little bit less of an issue in EDH and this deck really wants reusable reanimation effects. Vampiric comes in because I probably should have had it here all along.

    +Abyssal Gatekeeper, -Disciple of Griselbrand
    Disciple was eh. Most of my guys are x/1 or x/2, making him a little worse on average than Gutless Ghoul, a card that had been cut from previous versions of the deck for not being good enough. I mean, yes, sometimes I could sacrifice a Keiga or something and gain a ton of life and steal a guy, but often my selection of targets would be a bunch of utility guys and a fatty I want to live, and then he's just not very good. Gatekeeper has come in and out of the deck for a while, usually based on whether I'm facing swarms of tokens or Voltron/fatty decks. The meta has shifted to the latter recently, so Gatekeeper it is.

    +Mind Slash, -Primal Command
    Primal Command is a card whose stock has gone down a lot over the years. By far the best use was tutor, get rid of a noncreature, but for five mana it's just not very strong, particularly given how easily I can find creatures via milling. I'd kept it because of versatility and my desire to have it be good (I mean, it used to be such a good card!), but it's time to cut it. Mind Slash is taking its slot. I like Slash because of how surgical it is; Mindslicer was good enough to run even with all his drawbacks, and Mind Slash is much better.

    +Myr Sire, -Thornling
    Thornling came out a while ago but I just never got around to updating the list. I forget what Sire is replacing (whatever briefly replaced Thornling), but I like the fact that I either get two sacrifices' worth of use out of him with Attrition, Mind Slash, Golgari Guildmage, Sadistic Hypnotist, and Drowned Rusalka, or that I get two chumps out of him. He seems especially useful if you combine him with Mikaeus and one of the sacrifice outlets (four uses from one card). We'll see if he lives up to my expectations in testing.

    Cards I'm Watching:
    - Grim Backwoods: I really want a replacement for Nephalia Drownyard, since it is not as good as I'd hoped (I mean, it's okay, but not great). Backwoods...is probably not that card. The effect feels like it costs too much to net only a single card or a single dredge. Hopefully the UG land in Avacyn Restored is good.

    - Victimize: This card feels like it should be good, since I can get a lot of value out of netting two guys, but I dunno. It's one of those cards that I love but can never quite find room for in a finalized list. Maybe someday...

    - Spike Feeder: Infinite life with Mikaeus, plain and simple.

    - Triskelion: Infinite damage with Mikeaus, plain and simple. It's possible that the Necrotic Ooze combo is just not good enough without a way to win immediately with it (and no, Quillspike is not that card); if so, Trike would replace one of the pieces for sure, and Feeder would likely replace another. We'll see.

    - Phyrexian Infiltrator: This is one of my favorite cards, second to Life from the Loam and maybe - maybe - Astral Slide. I just have an irrational love for him: he has sweet art, a simple but fun ability, and old-school Phyrexians are baller. This would be the only EDH deck I've got together that could play him, and I'd love to work him in someday. For 4UUUU, you can actually use him to exchange any of your creatures for any of the opponent's, which seems fun - I'll upgrade my worm token into your general. Plus, if they're not playing blue, you can leave them stuck with a Grey Ogre that they probably don't want to die because then you'll reanimate it and steal something else. That said...he's probably not good enough, but damn it, I'm going to try!

  18. #18

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Quadruple post for more updates.

    Griselly Bear, Blood Artist, and Harvester of Souls are the only interesting cards I've seen out of Avacyn Restored, but I haven’t actually figured out how to work in any of them. If anyone has suggestions, I'd be interested.

    As for what's actually changed:

    +Bazaar of Baghdad, -Nephalia Drownyard
    Well, I found my Drownyard replacement. Not much to say here - Bazaar is much better than Drownyard for what I want to be doing and is also better than the UG land.

    +Forest, -Dust Bowl
    Dust Bowl has been kind of so-so for me lately. There aren't a lot of lands I'm just dead to, and some of them (like Workshop) don't see play around here. I suppose this type of effect is nice to have, but I kind of want more colored mana.

    +Beast Within, -Dakmor Salvage
    Aside from its cute interaction with Worm Harvest, Salvage was the worst of the dredgers by far and was just a bad card all around. I usually counted it as occupying a spell slot since I rarely wanted to play it as a land, so I don't feel bad about swapping it to Beast Within. A green Vindicate seems useful in a midrange-control deck.

    -Ooze Combo, +Triskelion, Victimize, and Oblivion Stone
    Without Oona in the deck to turn the Ooze combo into a way to win, it became just a Wrath, and a rather clunky one at that. Even when Oona was in the deck, the combo was not very good because it required a non-summoning-sick Ooze in play, three different cards in the graveyard, and another creature in play that I could target. Mikaeus and Trike, though, get the job done in a much smaller number of slots and the two can be Victimized into play for the (near-instant) win. Oblivion Stone comes back in for more board control.

    -Golgari Guildmage, +Undertaker
    Guildmage was in the deck for two reasons: it was a sacrifice outlet, and it was a way to recur creatures early on. It was not very good at being either of those, but it stayed because it was incidentally useful if I was making infinite mana off of Necrotic Ooze. Now that Ooze is out, I'm looking for a cheap way to kick-start my reanimation engines and Undertaker mostly fits the bill. The biggest issue is how fragile she is, but she tends to look innocuous enough to survive for a while.

    This is where I forget what exactly got swapped to what else. I do know that Mind Twist and Mind Shatter are now in over Kira and something else, probably Nostalgic Dreams. I wanted more ways to interact with people outside of board control, and the discard spells seemed like good ways to do that. I’m considering further adding Delirium Skeins, since it’s decent in multiplayer and I don’t mind discarding a bunch of cards with dredge (or reanimation targets). Golgari Germination has come in as a way to get extra value off of sacrificing guys and has been especially good with Sadistic Hypnotist.

  19. #19
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    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    Working on a Loam Control version for this deck where the plan rests on clearing board or grinding out resources through recursion.

    [Artifact]
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Mindslaver
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Oblivion Stone
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Smokestack
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Zuran Orb

    [Creature]
    1 Acidic Slime
    1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
    1 Baleful Strix
    1 Coiling Oracle
    1 Dimir House Guard
    1 Dimir Infiltrator
    1 Drift of Phantasms
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Fleshbag Marauder
    1 Genesis
    1 Kederekt Leviathan
    1 Oracle of Mul Daya
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Primeval Titan
    1 Snapcaster Mage

    [Land]
    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Ancient Tomb
    1 Bayou
    1 Bazaar of Baghdad
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Breeding Pool
    1 Cabal Coffers
    1 Cabal Pit
    1 Cavern of Souls
    1 Cephalid Coliseum
    1 Command Tower
    1 Creeping Tar Pit
    1 Drowned Catacomb
    1 Dust Bowl
    1 Forest
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Glacial Chasm
    1 Hinterland Harbor
    1 Island
    1 Lonely Sandbar
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Overgrown Tomb
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Rishadan Port
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Swamp
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    1 Tolaria West
    1 Treetop Village
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    1 Wasteland
    1 Watery Grave
    1 Woodland Cemetery

    [Planeswalker]
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Liliana of the Veil

    [Enchantment]
    1 Burgeoning
    1 Exploration
    1 Manabond
    1 Necropotence
    1 Pernicious Deed
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 The Abyss

    [Instant]
    1 Beast Within
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Entomb
    1 Forbidden Alchemy
    1 Intuition
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Realms Uncharted
    1 Shred Memory
    1 Vampiric Tutor

    [Sorcery]
    1 Beseech the Queen
    1 Bribery
    1 Damnation
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Devastation Tide
    1 Grim Tutor
    1 Imperial Seal
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Mind Twist
    1 Mulch
    1 Raven's Crime
    1 Sylvan Scrying
    1 Treasure Hunt
    1 Worm Harvest
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavius The Great View Post
    Respect my shine bitch!

  20. #20

    Re: Damia, Sage of Dredge

    And...updates!

    Kokoshu came off the ban list and replaced Keiga. Jarad and Korozda Guildmage are both in from RtR: Jarad is pretty obvious and both of the Guildmage's abilities are relevant. Past that, the list is starting to get pretty tight if I want to keep it at a fairly consistent power level.

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