Stop kidding yourself, kid will make a fortune on Wall St. Either that or as a used-car salesman.Originally Posted by zulander
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Have you guys really never cheated at anything? It's thrilling, and that can be addictive. I'm sure Alex got into bad habits as a younger man, got away with cheating in his spots, and felt invincible. He got reckless, and clearly he deserves to be punished. The double explore is really shocking, because he knows he's on camera! Maybe he doesn't think that video will go anywhere, but isn't that Drew Levin behind the video camera? Doesn't he know that guy suspects him? I mean... that's pretty fucking reckless.
So I ask again, because it's what I particularly want to know. Ever cheat a game as a kid? as an adult? what games?
I think people fear the "shame", but there really isn't shame in it, imo. You're playing a very different game at that point, one with much higher stakes, and real life implications. That's some hardcore shit yknow? Guy was #1 eternal under the new DCI rating or something? Crazy...
EDIT: Let me make this more clear. I don't condone cheating, and don't do it myself (anymore), but it's really easy to spot. If you catch 'em cheating, easiest match win you've ever gotten right? I actively hope my opponent is trying to cheat me, because I'm gonna spot it! You have to be one of those people, which has NOTHING to do with being a good "magic" player, but it's always been a large part of the game in live environments. I kinda welcome the excitement, I guess :P
Maybe I'm an uncoordinated donkey in a past life, but whenever I draw cards I count them in a small pile and then take them into my hand. Maybe I just don't play across from enough 'pros' but the method being implemented here is enough for me to question anyone when they're drawing cards.
Looks like starcitygames made a statement. Mind you, I can't say *what* they've said yet (I'm still stumbling through it now), but I thought I'd put it out here.
Edit: I know I shouldn't be, but I'm disappointed. I guess I was hoping that they'd actually do something here.
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I was watching the video of him brainstorm, and then kibler starts talking about his disorganized deck list, and I wonder if this is tied at all to the presideboarding...
I don't see why they would. I think their response is pretty clear and rational. SCG doesn't want to step on the DCI's toes, and rightly so. The DCI should be the one making a ruling here, as it applies to him wherever/whenever he plays the game, not just at events hosted by a single entity.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
I think SCG's response pretty much closes this thread. They noticed AB's cheating habit, and they reported the case to DCI. DCI is now investigating. And that article clearly says that the investigation will very probably close soon (and we all know what the final verdict will be, there is too much evidence to deny this and SCG has absolutely no interest in defending Alex)... I'm 99% sure that Bertoncini will get an 18 months ban by the end of the week.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
Well SCG forget to mention the important thing. Where will the prize go after the investigation is over and found out Bertoncini is guilty.
Since Bertoncini is supposedly going to be quitting Magic anyway, even DCI bans him for life it won't do a thing to him. Yet if you take away the 10k and Powers and give them back to the deserved player will have more of an impact.
Don't tell me that it is only rational SCG will take back the money and Powers back when DCI found Bertoncini is a cheater so SCG does not need to mention it in their statement. As long as they didn't mention it things may not happen at all.
This annoys the shit out of me as well. In fact I actually make people put the cards back and draw them individually whenever this occurs during a REL competitive and above match. There's really no reason to draw cards like this unless you have intent to cheat or are playing sloppy which is a nobo in my book.
They won't take back his prize, how can they? If they take back the invitational prize without mention of proof of him cheating AT THE INVITATIONAL then they would have to take away the prize he has earned from each scg top 8. There is no feasible way to take back that amount of money and try to redistribute it to other players. Do you give the guy who got 9th in every tourney bertoncini top 8ed some prize? The only thing they could easily take away from him and give to another is the player of the year prize (the power 9). I still don't think they'll take that back either, though I think they should.
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
Funny that your 420th post involves weed, eh Antonius? Fancy seeing you outside the Aggro Loam threads.
edit: also, I don't understand the hate towards SCG. They did precisely what they should, get the one governing body involved. They cannot take action without investigation, and I am sure the DCI is a far better choice to do the investigation.
Also, that picture with the "This check is too big to be a single check" is amazing.
If you are correct (they DO take medals back at Olympic Games by the way in similar situations), then SCG has already lost its credibility. They either hire bad judges and can't uphold their promise for a fair competition or they set up games (which I do believe is the case- the judge can't be so naive and stupid. What level was he?).
What I expect them to do is give the all the rewards to the second player. Nothing more, nothing less.
AB has been a known cheater for the longest time. Couldn't they have advised their judges to pay closer attention to his games? What about after he cheated on camera for the first time?
It just looks bad for SCG that this guy is cheating on camera and getting away with it. Had this tournment not had any video coverage, we wouldn't even be discussing this. It would be just a sore lose story...
Known how, exactly? He's been accused of it for a long time, yes, but with zero proof and a lot of sour grapes. People get accused of cheating all the time and rarely is it accurate. I doubt there's a single successful player in the history of Magic that hasn't been accused of cheating by someone.
There was no reason to ask anything of the sort. He was never "caught cheating on camera" or he'd have been DQed already. Assuming Drew Levin sent a letter to Sheldon in August, I can guarantee you Bertoncini's been under extra scrutiny since then (and Bertoncini likely knew about it too, since Levin didn't exactly make a secret of his allegations).Couldn't they have advised their judges to pay closer attention to his games? What about after he cheated on camera for the first time?
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
Just FYI, he plans to write an article telling his side of the story. Some of the evidence that has been presented has been damning, but again, I've been cautious in my judgment and will continue to be until we get more information.
Delver enthusiast and avid practitioner of blind flipsmanship.
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I was always pretty sure that people making cheating allegations were just what bad players did to try and figure out why people were better than them. That being said, Drew makes a very good case, and I'm eager to hear what Alex's retort is.
On a side note, it would be funny if he was just like "YEAH, I DID IT, BITCHES", and then quit magic (which I think he was already planning on doing)
TIME POLICE
That or "TWO explores, TWO explores!" or "You can't FoW my pre-sided Sower when you're at negative 16, JUUDDDGGEE" or "I'm not putting back 2 cards since Jin-Gitaxias will trigger anyway damit!"
They can't "take back" the $10,000 because they haven't given it to him yet. Do you guys honestly think that giant novelty check is valid? He has to wait just like everyone else, and it wouldn't surprise me if they decide not to give it to him. The power, on the other hand, is probably already sold, and that's a shame.
I'd be pretty skeptical if someone was playing anything like that mainboard. Understandable, too. I was playing somewhere, and I was playing a mainboard piece of hate since I knew the meta was going to be hugely graveyard based. The guy called the judge, but it was fine. Maybe he didn't think to call a judge, but I'd do the same if I saw the nut hate game 1. Doesn't hurt to check, right?
-Matt
I'd like to see him try and explain the Kira incident, because that should be just about impossible.
The first time Vidi bounces Kira with Jace and follows it up with the Scroll, Alex seems to perfectly understand what's happening, and he bins the Kira. The second time the EXACT same sequence of plays takes place, he suddenly forgets how Magic rules work?? The cheat is also very high EV from Alex' perspective, because with Jace no longer on the table, the Kira could very well turn the game around and beat the Cursed Scroll. All of this taking place on camera is just mind-fucking-blowing.
The Explore cheat seems a bit strange EV-wise. I would have liked to see the end of that clip and find out if he had Avenger of Zendikar or Preordain into Titan. Otherwise that cheat seems pretty retarded. Also, I didn't know Preordain lets you look at the bottom card of your library. (wtf, random insignificant edge ftw?)
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