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Thread: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

  1. #2841

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverflame View Post
    Staff also shines against infect, it won me an LQ 2 weeks ago :)
    Serrated Arrows is the best card against them. You'd be long dead before you'd have the mana to cast it against Infect .

  2. #2842
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness View Post
    Serrated Arrows is the best card against them. You'd be long dead before you'd have the mana to cast it against Infect .
    Dude, I just said I won a tournament using staff against infect...

  3. #2843
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness View Post
    Serrated Arrows is the best card against them. You'd be long dead before you'd have the mana to cast it against Infect .
    I am pretty sure you're the only person on earth is in favor of using Serrated Arrows in this deck. Or any deck, you've been pushing this card for about 6 months... It's about as good as Skyship Weatherlight.

  4. #2844

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Another FNM

    I didn't change anything at all from the list as I didn't have time to get more cards and make adjustments:

    4 Grim Monolith
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    2 Lightning Greaves
    1 Coercive Portal
    1 Staff of Domination
    1 Spine of Ish Sah

    2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    4 Metalworker
    4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Steel Hellkite
    1 Sundering Titan
    1 Blightsteel Colossus

    4 Cloudpost
    4 Glimmerpost
    3 Vesuva
    3 Wasteland
    3 Cavern of Souls
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors

    SB:
    1 Wasteland
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Thorn of Amethyst
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Trading Post
    1 Karn Liberated

    R1 - Jund
    Lost to a quick Lili twice, locked him out one game with Chalice at one and two.
    Need to find out a way to beat Jund cascade. All is Dust would be a trump card here, Ratchet Bombs doesn't do much. 0-1 (1-2)

    R2 - Miracles
    First game, I resolved a Trinisphere. He pushes Monastery Mentor to its limit (3 tokens), tapped out, then I run out Ugin. Game two he wins with his two Mentors, and two tokens. Game three, I win locking him out with Trinisphere and Wastelanding a Karakas (he's left at 1 land), while beating him with Lodestone Golem. Ratchet Bombs are not that useful against Mentors. 1-1 (3-3)

    R3 - RG Lands
    I scoop game 1 keeping a 2 lander and not drawing more while he combos off. Game 2, first turn Greaves, 2nd turn Lodestone, followed by 2 Wastelands for the win. He had Mox, Stage, Depths, but lacking mana. Game 3, I drew most of my sided-in cards, starting with Pithing Needle on Stage, then on Wasteland. He Grips the one for Stage and combos off. I had Ensnaring Bridge, Karn, and Ugin. 2-1 (5-4)

    R4 - Death and Taxes
    Game 1, I kept a stupid hand of Trinisphere, lands and Blightsteel. He mulled to 5 so I thought it was fine (and not knowing he was DnT). His first turn was an Aether Vial. I get run over after. Game 2, there was a point in the game where I could fetch with Forgemaster; he had Thalia, Spirit of Labyrinth, and Karakas in play, and Mangara in hand, with a Vial @3. Staff of Nin would have been great there, and since I took it out of my list, I lost that game. 2-2 (5-6)

    Takeaway/Summary:
    - I need to find out how to beat Jund.
    - Add Staff of Nin back to the list.
    - Ratchet Bombs are not that useful against Monastery Mentors, consider adding All is Dust back in SB.
    - I think 1 Ensnaring Bridge in SB is enough.
    - Also thinking of putting back the Revokers maindeck. Has anyone else tried this?

  5. #2845
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by potatodavid View Post
    I am pretty sure you're the only person on earth is in favor of using Serrated Arrows in this deck. Or any deck, you've been pushing this card for about 6 months... It's about as good as Skyship Weatherlight.
    I've been playing serrated arrows as well and it's a fine card.

  6. #2846

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Coming back to this deck after a decent amount of time away from magic in general, probably a silly question.

    With caverns, is construct the usual type named in order to try and stick metalworker or kuldotha forgemaster?

    also is this pretty much the standard manabase used:

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Glimmerpost
    3 Cavern of Souls
    3 Wasteland
    2 Vesuva

  7. #2847
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithium View Post
    Coming back to this deck after a decent amount of time away from magic in general, probably a silly question.

    With caverns, is construct the usual type named in order to try and stick metalworker or kuldotha forgemaster?

    also is this pretty much the standard manabase used:

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    4 Glimmerpost
    3 Cavern of Souls
    3 Wasteland
    2 Vesuva
    Construct or Golem (if you've got Lodestone or Titan)

    I think more people are playing 3 Vesuva and 2 Wasteland, or no Wasteland altogether.

  8. #2848

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by keys View Post
    Construct or Golem (if you've got Lodestone or Titan)

    I think more people are playing 3 Vesuva and 2 Wasteland, or no Wasteland altogether.
    Thanks :)

  9. #2849

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I've been playing serrated arrows as well and it's a fine card.
    I've bashed Serrated Arrows before, but now, I'm willing to try 1 vs DnT.

  10. #2850
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by darkgh0st View Post
    I've bashed Serrated Arrows before, but now, I'm willing to try 1 vs DnT.
    The card looks janky on paper, but it's definitely reasonable. Imo it works quite well against elves, DNT and Delver where it can pick off unflipped delvers and Young Pyromancers. Also, triggering prowess doesn't save the creature (Mentor/Swiftspear) because of the -1/-1 counters. 2 toughness sux though.

  11. #2851
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    The card looks janky on paper, but it's definitely reasonable. Imo it works quite well against elves, DNT and Delver where it can pick off unflipped delvers and Young Pyromancers. Also, triggering prowess doesn't save the creature (Mentor/Swiftspear) because of the -1/-1 counters. 2 toughness sux though.
    IMHO, staff is better because:
    assuming you're trying to stick it on t2, being t1 sol + monolith, staff being 6 mana instead of 4 makes no difference as both are castable. If you're T1 chalice, you can go T2 lodestone and any 1-drop opponent played is stalled until you can get to 6 anyway.
    Serrated Arrow gets worse as the match progress as you lose counters and opponent's creatures increase in size (goyf, KotR, batterskull) while staff gives you inevitability, 3 turns in play greatly increases your odds of winning.
    Against miracles you should be going for planeswalkers and card advantage, so staff is better, as it will net you cards and also damage the opponent/pw/stop clique from beating. Instead of going straight to staff/arrow, you should cast chalice on 1 ASAP, so you don't die to mentor + top + top, then cast something big, like hellkite or wurmcoil.
    Arrow does work well against DnT if if the opponent is not using revokers or serra avengers, that are increasingly popular MD because of TNN. But then again, so does staff, because with his/hers revoker online you won't ping, but will still get the extra draw.
    Against delvers and burn you should be going for wurmcoil or platinum emperion.

  12. #2852
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    That all assumes you hit 6 mana without getting dazed. The whole idea is that often you're already dead by then. S.arrows is just a different type of card. Even s.arrows is a little too slow for my liking. I'm looking at granite shard for red variants myself.

  13. #2853

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    You shouldn't be using Grim Monolith to cast Staff Of Nin .

    I don't need Metalworker or Grim to cast Coercive Portal . I can cast it for 4 before I start desperately needing to top deck threats or lands. I don't think Staff of Nin is aggressively costed enough for Legacy , at all, period .

    the cost payment of Granite Shard is too much just to ping creatures away . Serrated Arrows activates for free .

    another option still on the table as far as I think is Arena , it also activates for 3 and the tap is an effect not a cost , so you can swing with Wurmcoil Engine first and then net 12 life off of it. but most of the time it's just going to be hitting a token dork or Germ token , I wish this card was better . in the right metagame it could shine but probably not this one. it still helps to clear away chump blockers but doesn't interact well with Lightning Greaves either. isn't this better than Granite Shard? maybe not .

    I was only recommending Serrated Arrows specifically against Infect , since that deck can play a series of must-answer 1/1s that can pump and evade ping damage . I wasn't comparing it in any way to drawing cards with Staff Of Nin

    looking at deck lists the choice I see people making is 1 Staff Of Nin and 1 Coercive Portal , never mind that Staff is clearly superior to play multiple copies of at least 2 to 3 to hit 2 toughness creatures like Delver , Deathrite and Stoneforge. I think people are basically conceding that Staff is too slow for legacy and people would really rather play Coercive Portal instead

  14. #2854

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Cloudpost : glimmerpost : vesuva : THESPIAN STAGE!!!!!!!!

    thespian stage is a somehow better somehow worse vesuva / try it.

    4 Metalworker
    4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
    4 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    4 Lodestone Golem
    1 Platinum Emperion

    2 Scroll Rack
    3 Ratchet Bomb
    3 Lightning Greaves
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    1 Staff of Domination

    4 Cloudpost
    4 Glimmerpost
    3 Thespian's Stage
    3 Vesuva
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    3 Cavern of Souls

    2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
    SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 2 Witchbane Orb
    SB: 3 Duplicant
    SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
    SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge

  15. #2855

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    That all assumes you hit 6 mana without getting dazed. The whole idea is that often you're already dead by then. S.arrows is just a different type of card. Even s.arrows is a little too slow for my liking. I'm looking at granite shard for red variants myself.
    You're right that they can't really be compared because they serve different functions. Staff of Nin, at least in my experience, is there primarily for grindy matchups where the extra cards on a hard (generally speaking) to kill permanent is more threatening than a creature they have removal for. The reason I like staff over Coercive Portal, for example, is that portal is just there to draw cards, where as staff has extra versatility, even if it is usually only marginal utility. Honestly if I were to cut staff of Nin (which I don't plan on doing btw) it would be for main deck Ugin's number 3 and 4. Ugin fills a similar function of being a resilient threat against a deck like miracles with even more utility, you are just trading up to a more expensive card with more utility.

    Sent from phone, sorry for any spelling or grammatical or formatting errors.

  16. #2856

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Staff Of Nin and Coercive Portal are in a different class from one another .

    Nobody is denying that Staff Of Nin does more, ping 1 dmg against Pyromancer , planeswalkers, unflipped Delver, and so on is very good , no doubt

    but you can cast Coercive Portal as early as turns 2 or 3

  17. #2857

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness View Post
    Staff Of Nin and Coercive Portal are in a different class from one another .

    Nobody is denying that Staff Of Nin does more, ping 1 dmg against Pyromancer , planeswalkers, unflipped Delver, and so on is very good , no doubt

    but you can cast Coercive Portal as early as turns 2 or 3
    That's fair but maybe I just value the added utility more than you and am willing to pay the price. I guess the main reason I'm willing to pay more for that effect is that I'm not really interested in the cards against daze decks. Against them I'm usually more worried about getting to the midgame with enough mana, action, and life to start to take over the game with our more powerful cards.

  18. #2858

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by BTY View Post
    That's fair but maybe I just value the added utility more than you and am willing to pay the price. I guess the main reason I'm willing to pay more for that effect is that I'm not really interested in the cards against daze decks. Against them I'm usually more worried about getting to the midgame with enough mana, action, and life to start to take over the game with our more powerful cards.
    BOTH cards are jank in legacy.

    you dont want to spend 4-6 mana on things that could be good. you want the good card in your hand not the possibility to draw one next turn. legacy is too fast.

    I play scroll rack to find what i need. A nice 2 drop that activates for 1. Dig up the good stuff.


    ALSO: thespian stage is a good land next too cloudpost! WHen i dont have anything to cast i turn it in a extra cloudpost and watch my mana go crazy

  19. #2859
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Holland View Post
    BOTH cards are jank in legacy.

    you dont want to spend 4-6 mana on things that could be good. you want the good card in your hand not the possibility to draw one next turn. legacy is too fast.

    I play scroll rack to find what i need. A nice 2 drop that activates for 1. Dig up the good stuff.


    ALSO: thespian stage is a good land next too cloudpost! WHen i dont have anything to cast i turn it in a extra cloudpost and watch my mana go crazy
    Interesting setup with Thespian's Stage. I did try it out actually but only as a replacement for one of the Vesuva I never thought about putting it in as an extra. Although I would hate losing Wasteland it would certainly be worth a try.

    With this setup I would definitely up my curve a lot, since you will produce a LOT of mana every game. Just have to make sure you get there. I'd definitely put in a full playset of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon then

  20. #2860

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
    Interesting setup with Thespian's Stage. I did try it out actually but only as a replacement for one of the Vesuva I never thought about putting it in as an extra. Although I would hate losing Wasteland it would certainly be worth a try.

    With this setup I would definitely up my curve a lot, since you will produce a LOT of mana every game. Just have to make sure you get there. I'd definitely put in a full playset of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon then
    ugin is a great manasink. However karn at 7 mana is also a contestant altough he fits a different role he is out a turn earlier. kozilek is also nice with greaves! Maybe more staff of domination(s) to throw mana at?

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