2 more mana can certainly be a lot when you are playing against loam decks and DnT. Having to wait for 2 more mana is also quite a liability against Hymn/Lili/TS decks. Against BUG delver I'd take portal over Nin any day as resisting daze/spell pierce/wasteland certainly has value. Coming down sooner also means drawing more cards.Originally Posted by Alex Holland
I disagree with these two points.
Portal is 4 mana. But doesnt do anything other then draw. 2 mana more isnt a lot for a staff of nin. I killed many mindsculptors, dack faydens and players with the dropping of a staff. Its too narrow to think its only useful against 1 toughness creatures. Pinging is a good thing. Makes that you can actually influence the board state and get even more card advantage out of it. I admit i always hated staff of nin and i ridiculed others who played it. I was wrong. I now play 3 and i enjoy sneaking them in, HALLELUJAH!
Titan vs Miracles? U dont need extra help against miracles. Its one of my favourite opponents because with cavern, chalice, trinisphere, copper gnomes i just steam role them to little pieces!
Just because miracles isn't a bad matchup doesn't mean it's a free win. Every game I've lost to them was the result of a series of StP/Snapcaster/Terminus/Jace-1 on every non-Sundering Titan creature I would draw. This deck is absolutely capable of drawing threat-light just long enough to lose to Miracles. Cavern on Sundering Titan is simply the safest easy to guarantee a win vs Miracles.
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What's everyone's opinion on the deck's holy cow: Blightsteel? I feel like most instances where you tutor him up to win, Platinum Emperion tends to do just as good of a job at winning in most cases, except for maybe elves and Infect. As it stands, I've been running a Steel Hellkite in his place. He tends to be more castable than Blightsteel and still OHKOs with staff combo.
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Emperion gets chump blocked or blocked to death by 2-3 creatures.
Blightsteel kills in 1 turn if unblocked, has trample ane indestructible. Even when they do block he tramples infect damage. Survives even 10 creatures blocking him and thus always kills in 1-2 turns.
Emperion is trash compared to blightsteel and has a total different role in the deck mainly defensive. Quit the nonsense.
I think a more valid talking point would be Emperion vs Platinum Angel. They serve the same purpose of being defensive such that you won't lose.
Is the 1 mana more for emperion worth the "upgrade" in P/T? I understand that in many situations 1 mana away may mean "1 turn away a.k.a opponent gets one more turn to do stuff"
Now I admit I'm not good at this deck, so I took Airwaves list from pg 138 and gave it a spin (airwave thank you for that sideboarding guide its a boon to newer players).
My local meta is burn/merfolk/miracles(g2mentor)/omnitell/loamdecks...would a build like his be good for this meta? :)
Thanks in advance!
1 mana can be huge but if you do it right you will sneak in your platinum thing anyway. I always prefer emperion because 8 toughness means a burn player will have to do some work to remove it. plus a 4/4 flying isnt really impressive while a 8/8 can beat face if no blockers. But it really isnt a discussion as 99% of MUD players chose emperion so it must be logical.
Another thing that factored in my decision to run Platnium Emperion over the Angel is creature type. I play a full playset of Cavern of Souls and Emperion is a Golem, as is Lodestone Golem, Blightsteel Colossus and Sundering Titan. I play 19 creatures in MUD. 7 of them are constructs (Forgemaster and Metalworker) and 7 of them are Golems, which makes it easier to name creature types for Cavern.
Also, as mentioned by Alex, Emperion is harder to kill as an 8/8.
Trying out a singleton Coercive Portal. It's ok so far. I may make that into another Staff of Nin though. The Ping ability is really good.
I recently switched to MUD as Omnitell and Miracles are quite prominent where I play and I've been doing really well. Only lost to Miracles once (out of at least 7 matches) and haven't lost to Omnitell at all. LOL, although against Omnitell I've had some god hands. Turn 1, Ancient Tomb, Grim Monolith, Lotus Petal into turn 1 Lodestone Golem. Turn 2. Another Ancient Tomb into another Lodestone Golem.
Anyone have any pointers for Infect or Elves? I find those matches difficult.
I main an Emperion because it stops most things and having 8 mana isn't normally a problem. I have the Angel in the side for combos that mill you out or just go, "I win," without changing my life total. Against things like burn I keep in the Emperion and add in the Angel, where as in other matchups I just switch one for the other.
Cockatrice: EMFry
Keep a chalice or a trinisphere in your opening hand. Against infect you really want a trinisphere since they stack their buff spells and play fow. Against elves hope for a chalice, then followed by a chalice at 3. Maybe some ratchet bomb in the SB. Or phyrexian revoker. I hate elves.
Funny you mention that Fry, because I do the complete opposite for about the same reasons. I keep Angel in the main because it deals with more variety of win cons, like infect and mill. The fact that it costs one less mana and that it has flying (which represents a decent clock, vs. Emperion which does nothing sometimes as the opponent finds an answer). I usually side Emperion in (while keeping Angel) against decks that can't answer Emperion well, such as Merfolk and Burn. Having a Cavern of Souls on Golem is a thing though.
I don't think creature type matters in the decks we want plat against. Please correct me if I'm wrong though. Infect and burn for example aren't likely to hold counters for plat cards.
Also, why chalice on 3 for elves? What are we going to counter.
URx Delver builds will do their best to, and yes, if they know their matchups, so will Infect.
Chalice on 3 for elves is presumably for Reclamation Sage, but I don't know why because the list plays several copies of Abrupt Decay. It's better to just Chalice at 1 and win fast.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Reclamation Sage is going to be found with Green Sun's Zenith so chalice on 3 will not be useful in stopping it
Uhm... I guess you gave the answer yourself right? Angel saves you from infect, emperion doesn't.... I choose Angel over Emperion because of this mainly. Yes emperion is a Golem which is a slight advantage, but 9 out of 10 times the angel/emperion hits the board through forgemaster search. So creature type isn't that important I think.
Glad you like it.
Your question: Yes I think you have the right deck for this meta. If you go more controllish burn and maybe merfolk will kill you. If you go more aggro/combo (with Goblin Welder for instance) loam and miracles will kill you.
So I guess you're right in the middle of these two and it fits.
Good luck!
True. I always hit the second chalice at either 1 (again!) or 4 if I have lots of mana to stop Natural Order, but that rarely happens...
Okay, after a lot of brewing I've got another red/green variation (that's still in progress). And I'd like to share it with you. Bare in mind, this is a paper tiger that needs tweaking (not enough mana atm)
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Taiga
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Mountain
4 Ruination
3 Punishing Fire
3 Sylvan Library
4 Elsewhere Flask
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Metalworker
3 Sundering Titan
3 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Notable cards:
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
It blocks flyers and attacks and is very expensive to get rid of.
Sundering Titan
Destroys lands!
Elsewhere Flask
It helps you play a land with a city of traitors in play, cantrips, and turns all your land into basics right before you fire off a Ruination. Also defends against Wastelands.
Ruination
Aggressively costed and potentially one sided armageddon that works extremely well with Lodestone Golems and Trinisphere
Punishing Fire
Mop up utility creatures
Sylvan Library
Card selection is good
Wurmcoil Engine
Need bombs with life gain
27 artifacts seems a bit meh for poor metalworker.
Flask and ruination seem fun but resolving two spells for combo? i can think of 2 card combos that are cheaper and artifacts thus tutorable.
Yes, 27 artifacts concerned me too. I'm not even sure whether or not I'm sticking with Metalworker. Orcish Lumberjack looks better in this build but requires cavern of souls somewhere.
Sylvan plug sideboards 3 Ruination without a way to protect its own manabase. I don't need to assemble both of the pieces to be good. Elsewhere Flask is great without Ruination as it can save your ancient tomb from wasteland or allow you to play a second city of traitors without having to sacrifice the first one. It also serves as a mana fixer in a pinch. Blood Moon is the better card, but if you do assemble the combo you outright win, and that for a very unobtrusive manacost.
I understand that you're referring to painter/grindstone. I don't believe that argument holds. Grindstone and Goblin Welder get countered by Chalice of the Void and require a vastly different set up. If you're referring to Staff/Metalworker/Kuldotha Forgemaster, I still think Kuldotha Forgemaster is a liability and have never been a fan.
Another alternate to Metalworker @ 3cc is Worn Powerstone.
That's not how Elsewhere Flask works. Turning lands into a basic land type doesn't turn them into basic lands. Ruination/Wasteland still get them. It works to get around City's sacrifice trigger and color fix, but that's about it.
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