I was discussing potential applications of this card with some friends, and I mentioned that the shuffle effect is occasionally useful, even if you don't want to exile a card. This hinges on the understanding that you don't have to exile any cards if you don't want to.Choose target card in a graveyard other than a basic land card. Search its owner's graveyard, hand, and library for any number of cards with the same name as that card and exile them. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
We all agree that you are not required to exile cards of the same name that you find in the library, since you are "searching" for it and it is technically a hidden zone. However, my understanding is that you don't have to "find" a card to exile even if searching the graveyard or hand, which are public zones. In fact, because Surgical Extraction reads "choose target card" rather than "exile target card", you don't even have to remove the targeted card in the graveyard.
I've used this in the following situations:
1) I want to shuffle my library (perhaps I bricked on a Brainstorm), but I don't want to actually exile any of the targeted cards. My understanding is that I can "choose" the Brainstorm I have in the graveyard as my targeted card, but find nothing on the search through graveyard, hand, and library. (I assume you don't have to reveal your library or hand to your opponent since it is a search and not a reveal.)
2) I want to fizzle an opponent's effect. For instance, my opponent cast a Surgical Extraction, targeting my Life From the Loam. I want to keep any additional copies I have in graveyard, hand, or library by casting my own Extraction on the targeted Life From the Loam, and exiling only that one copy so that my opponent cannot remove the rest.
I just wanted to confirm that I played Surgical Extraction correctly in both cases (i.e. legally, rather than optimally).
How is extirpate its "all cards" wording different? Cause there have been times where I extirpate my own fetch land cause I need to see something on top with SdT. I have always just exile all of that land cause I dont really care. But I am realizing now, I could just fail to search. With extirpate, do you still have to exile the original target from your graveyard, unlike with surgical?
Last edited by cdr; 04-19-2012 at 12:11 PM.
This is the rule you want:
701.15b. If a player is searching a hidden zone for cards with a stated quality, such as a card with a certain card type or color, that player isn't required to find some or all of those cards even if they're present in that zone.
Example: Splinter says "Exile target artifact. Search its controller's graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that artifact and exile them. That player then shuffles his or her library." A player casts Splinter targeting Howling Mine (an artifact). Howling Mine's controller has another Howling Mine in her graveyard and two more in her library. Splinter's controller must find the Howling Mine in the graveyard, but may choose to find zero, one, or two of the Howling Mines in the library.
If a search is for anything other than just "a card", you can fail to find in non-public zones (hand, library). You always have to find in public zones (graveryard, etc).
There is no difference between Surgical Extraction and Extirpate as far as searching. The difference is that Extraction says "any number" and Extirpate says "all". Extraction's "any number" clause means that even if you find a match, eg in a public zone like the graveyard, you can choose not to exile it.
1) You do have to find the Brainstorm in the graveyard, but because of the "any number" clause you can choose not to exile it. You do not have to reveal your hand or library since it's a search.
2) You can do that, but again the only reason you can leave other copies in the graveyard is because of "any number".
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
Just for my own clarification, The above instance mentioned by OP will work right? You can target simple cast your own Extraction and exile your copy of Loam from your graveyard but "fail" to find any additional copies in your hand or library.
Last edited by Wereodile; 04-19-2012 at 12:08 PM. Reason: sentence structure
I edited my post above for clarification, but yes.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
Read your edited post and that it is much more clear (to me) Thank you.
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