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Thread: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

  1. #741
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    Also, If Blood moon is in play, Saga also enters as a mountain without the lore abilities so you wouldn't be able to make tokens anyway. Not until moon is removed and you have waited 2-3 turns at least.
    Doesn't Blood Moon kill Urza's Saga? It turns it into a Mountain with no chapter abilities but it's still a saga, and part of a saga is when it has lore counters greater than or equal to the last chapter number, it's sacrificed as part of state based effects. So Mountain has zero chapter abilities and it has zero counters, so it gets sacrificed. Or did that change?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  2. #742

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Doesn't Blood Moon kill Urza's Saga? It turns it into a Mountain with no chapter abilities but it's still a saga, and part of a saga is when it has lore counters greater than or equal to the last chapter number, it's sacrificed as part of state based effects. So Mountain has zero chapter abilities and it has zero counters, so it gets sacrificed. Or did that change?
    You are correct.

  3. #743

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Doesn't Blood Moon kill Urza's Saga? It turns it into a Mountain with no chapter abilities but it's still a saga, and part of a saga is when it has lore counters greater than or equal to the last chapter number, it's sacrificed as part of state based effects. So Mountain has zero chapter abilities and it has zero counters, so it gets sacrificed. Or did that change?
    715.4. If the number of lore counters on a Saga permanent is greater than or equal to its final chapter number, and it isn’t the source of a chapter ability that has triggered but not yet left the stack, that Saga’s controller sacrifices it. This state-based action doesn’t use the stack.

    715.2d A Saga’s final chapter number is the greatest value among chapter abilities it has. If a Saga somehow has no chapter abilities, its final chapter number is 0.

    The whole Saga type card is so confusing thanks for enlightening me. I guess you can still pitch it to mox then!

    So it's not all bad then... if we play moon we can kill all opposing sagas... interesting.

  4. #744

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Well I am back playing paper, and finally got round to an updated Parfait list.
    Did not have the best of evenings, probably 5% off my game, playing well at times but mulliganing like a muppet, and my pre-panemic run with the deck came to an abrupt, crashing halt.
    I tried Saga, and frustratingly it was excellent, but I rarely got to play or see it as they hid- one of those night with zero die rolls going my way and saga perpetually stuck at the bottom in multiples.

    I have been running Wg, with karn. Whereas Karn was awesome pre pandemic, I feel a bit more ambivalent towards him now- I mean he is still awesome, but removal has changed- a lot.
    Prismatic ending is very effecttive against 1cc and 2cc, and decks just have access to that much more removal, making Karn's defensive anti critter qualities a lot less useful. Fetching a meekstone or whatever has never been so fragile. I had been devoting most of my recent time to testing and updating Pox and other mono black controlling lists, but saga just felt like an obvious fit and I thought the deck would continue to offer its usual selection of interesting lines and flexiblility.
    I feel that I found a lot more of my permanents dissappearing at the wrong time than normal, and that is a reflection of Prismatic ending's soul crushing efficiency and frustratingly got blown away by slivers to boot; it was then I noticed that a lot f the evening I had been mentally wishing for wraths. Many moons ago Miracles was a tough match, but post top and especially post Karn that had swung- I had >50 % vs a lot of bant/jeskai matches for the past two-three years. I certainly would not fancy the match now- game 1 they used to have a max of 2 non swords permanent removal spells-council's judgement- but now any UWx deck will pack ending -ending making that 3-4, with bant decks packing force of v in the board.
    In light of this I think I will go full circle back to red splash. Moon might be a no-no with Saga (which I will say again- excellent card not just as big monster makers but the ability to fetch a needle is super powerful), but with an extra bit of sol land I can envisage Pyroblast board with Nahiri main. Generally a 4cc permanent feels a bit more safe, and despite the humility/moat/saga nonbo, I feel that with careful piloting there is milage there. Time will tell.
    The other change I will make is to run a needle in the board too. Many a time I found my Karn activation not producing the control, and needle no 2 would have helped a lot..........

  5. #745

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Thoughts on my Poxfait list?

    Maybe you can run rip helm? XJcloud has been doing well with that and it means karn always get a must answer card. Obviously a bit biased as the curses guy, but helm makes karn much better against creature decks and blue control.

  6. #746
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quick glance from me so initial thoughts are not enough basic land and looks like it has the pox problem of being able to gain a great board state/control but doesn’t close the game. I would use leyline/helm in that case as I ran that in my basic parfait list. Big fan of nether spirit. Would probably play Gerrards verdict in some number.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  7. #747

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Do you think playing 4 more basics is worth losing the flagstones/pox interaction?

    Why would you play verdict over hymn?

    I have found saga tokens kill relatively quickly. Do you think they aren’t reliable enough?

  8. #748
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    That’s where it gets weird. Tax is great for advantage. Flagstones kind of takes that away by shutting off tax. This becomes more of a how to win issue then. Parfait is generally the long game where pox is more the short game since traditionally pox can’t win the game when it does its thing. So I think if you go helm flagstones is more attractive. It gives a fast win con that plays into pox and then you don’t need all the stall/control that’s usually in parfait. In fact it could be a reason for dark ritual. I hope I explained that at least ok.

    I would play verdict because you can use it on yourself to gain life. We play tax so it gives another use for potential lands in hand.

    I haven’t been on the saga plan so I don’t really have an opinion there. I really like rip/leyline helm because it wins the turn it’s played and both pieces are generally good outside the combo. Also from the parfait side you want to blank as much of your opponents deck as possible. Most decks have non basic hate, so we play basics and shut off their cards. We don’t play creatures so they have no use for removal. Etc. It honestly feels great to have an opponent wasteland their own duals so you can’t tax.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  9. #749
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I've only played Tax/Rack in UW, without the Pox plan. RiP + Helm was the wincon, but having access to Energy Field in blue really rewards that direction. Here it would just be a 2-card combo without other synergy, so I could see why you'd skip that in favor of Pox control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Thoughts on my Poxfait list?

    Maybe you can run rip helm? XJcloud has been doing well with that and it means karn always get a must answer card. Obviously a bit biased as the curses guy, but helm makes karn much better against creature decks and blue control.
    -1 Flagstones, +1 Plains (the 3rd and 4th Flagstones are much worse when you might have 0 Plains left in the deck, from previous Flagstones or Land Tax)

    Crucible of Worlds maindeck seems very good. You're clearly leaning on Saga as the wincon. Maindeck Crucible helps ensure that inevitability. It also means you can replay Flagstones for the synergy you want, without having to run a deck with 4 Flagstones 2 Plains. And it gives you payoff for all those lands you're discarding. 4th Raven's Crime could be the cut.

    If you do go with RiP + Helm as the wincon, then Karn is good and you can hide Crucible in the Karnboard. But RiP + Helm + Karn takes up a lot of space so the whole deck would look very different. Can't picture it yet if you still keep the Pox angle.

    Edit: Thinking about this more, there's more anti-synergy playing 4x Land Tax with 28 Lands. Land Tax might have no text until later in the game. Then you might only get 2 uses before you run out of basics (no Scroll Rack to put them back and draw real cards). Redundant copies of Land Tax seem dead. Turn 1 Land Tax also seems bad when you want to be playing out Wastelands and Sagas. Then there's also the 4x ETutor in the SB, taking up space to have the toolbox.
    What if you ran ETutor maindeck and cut down Land Tax to 2 copies? Then you can play a 1-of Crucible maindeck and easily find it. That also frees up SB space while keeping the toolbox.
    Last edited by FTW; 09-15-2021 at 11:54 AM.

  10. #750

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Thoughts on my Poxfait list?

    Maybe you can run rip helm? XJcloud has been doing well with that and it means karn always get a must answer card. Obviously a bit biased as the curses guy, but helm makes karn much better against creature decks and blue control.
    Sorry for the late reply, not sure if you are replying to me or someone else, I do indeed run rip helm, one side for Karn, one main and 4 RIP. RIP is strong.
    I have been fiddling with red,and a slightly increased land count, and I think I will have a better bant match now.

    Nahri does offer the ability to fetch an artifact (i.e. helm), which makes it put pressure on if rip is down wheras Karn gives them time to see it coming, Nahri does not...
    Last edited by drmarkb; 09-26-2021 at 08:50 AM.

  11. #751

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    On poxfait, I am wondering if bw pox might be better, I.e. a pox shell of thoughtseize, smallpox hymn on top of that bw removal....

  12. #752
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I will say that the pox plan is counterintuitive to the parfait plan to an extent. Parfait generally is trying to blank cards for you opponents. Pox does resource denial/discard which oddly gives use to cards that would otherwise be dead.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  13. #753

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I guess parfait has a few contradictions at times, for example I run moat and saga now, and I know from much experience that Pox always has tension when cards like Lily OTV clash with cards in hand, or sinkhole in old rack builds from ten years ago. I think there is a great BW pox build out there with the cards like Kaya, Lilly and prismatic ending, I just wonder if the Land tax trick is going to work. Could the deck just be winning because BW Pox is a bit better placed today than it has been these past few years, and that flexible removal is patching up holes in the pox bucket?
    On the subject of regular parfait splashes, I have in the past toyed with a black splash for Chains, but right now 2cc permanents are just Ending fodder anyway, and I like cheap permanenents nowadays to have a swift impact- scroll rack can activate and do some good even if removed. Saga takes a turn before it is online, and the 0/1cc artifacts that get popped into play come "free" almost, given the dudes and shuffle effect.

  14. #754

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Played Parfait last night.
    The red splash worked, and I got to use an Alpha REB vs Miracles to seal a winning play. Made me feel warm inside.
    Lost 2-1 to Dragon Stomp and Goblins though. The former was a bit annoying as I was 1-0 up and they went all in after a mull to 5 to drop a t1 Chandra when I was holding Swords, and then repeated the trick g3 with fireflux squad, when I was holding needle. Saga was outstanding when I played it. It makes E tutor better too.

    I will stick with red, but need to work on the board. Just bringing in more 4cc stuff- extra Wrath or Humility seems a bit slow for the critter side of my meta. I would generally have been better off boarding simian spirit guides or lightning bolts in those matches, which kind of says something. I feel I have game against fair blue decks, both control and tempo, even bant with its removal suite. Uch more so than green splash.
    The d n t and maverick decks are fine.
    Depths makes me shiver a bit still, lands is better, and I can forget doomsday even with a 5 blast board and some hate pieces, there will always be some weak matches, but I do need to shore up others because I have been losing a lot of matches 2-1. My karn board is light, but I think it can be lighter. Lattice, helm, Torpor orb, Zuran orb and needle seem to be the only thing U fetch nowadays.

  15. #755

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Looking at March of Otherworldly light. First glance it looks....bad, but we don't get brilliant prismatic endings, at least not vs blood Moon, Chalice can be a bummer and March deals with both at instant speed. Often get dead cards when LT and Scrack is operating, and I like the ability to nerf saga at instant speed. Exile is relevant too.
    Might try it in a flex slot. I was once a fan of Unexpectedly absent, but found ww to be a challenge as I tried more sol lands, this is better than that, for sure.

  16. #756
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Well looks like we have a group starting to form again so back to perfection for me. That said I think I may finally try out something I’ve been theory crafting for some time. Not sure when we are going to start up so as a result I’m not sure if I’ll post a list before or after pressure testing. Regardless something new may be on the horizon.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  17. #757

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    Well looks like we have a group starting to form again .
    Where? On Discord? Link?


    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    Something new may be on the horizon.
    Because, we now have access to March of Otherworldly Light and The Wandering Emperor?

    Also, the Meta looks quite predatory towards us, and everything we do can be hit by the latests answers (Prismatic Ending and Boseiju, Who Endures to name a few).

  18. #758
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Sorry. Meant locally. I’m a paper player since I can’t justify buying cards I already own.

    Honestly haven’t really been looking at magic the last while with band stuff taking over. May have to look at the newer sets to fill in holes I wasn’t sure how to.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  19. #759

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    Sorry. Meant locally. I’m a paper player since I can’t justify buying cards I already own.

    Honestly haven’t really been looking at magic the last while with band stuff taking over. May have to look at the newer sets to fill in holes I wasn’t sure how to.
    Me too- paper for me! Nice to see you back.
    Serenity is everywhere too in boards as well as meltdown.

    With my current list I have gone back to basics- not literally.
    I have gone 4 lightning bolt, 4 swords, march of otherworldly. Saga targets include Cursed Scroll. Lots of saga wins, fewer combo wins. 5 pyroblast effects in the board, I have beta red blasts now.

    No moat/humility shenanigans- it really hurts to remove moat back to a bank safe. 4cc for a solitary Nahiri, and karns, and the helm, with lots of uncounterable (bar stifle effects) Eiganjo action in there for a smooth mana base or removal. Locking a board up with combos that don't win the game is much less good than it was, so its all grindy removal with as high a card quality as possible (hence bolt), knowing that either scroll rack/land tax will take off or one of the karn combo/RIP combo will stick sooner or later.

  20. #760

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)


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