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Thread: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

  1. #841

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    If not on Cataclysm, is Doomskar better than regular Wrath?
    I think so yes. You might be running your 4 drop removal into daze when under pressure and a board reset can be quite the pivotal moment. Imagine you spent 3 turns just saving that plow because you had a wrath in hand and it gets dazed. You took several turns of 2+ creature damage for nothing. It happened to me more times than I'd like and it felt awful.

    Also, the list I play has a pretty lackluster turn 2 so setting up for later with foretell feels like a good way to use that downtime. You can then decide if you want to jam it for 3 or use an orim's chant to resolve it, lowering your card advantage but ensuring the game goes longer.

  2. #842
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Good points.

    Has anyone tried playing 80-card Yorion Parfait?

    80-card goes against the fundamental idea of variance reduction via deck-thinning. On the other hand, Yorion has good synergy with a lot of the newer card advantage engines with ETBs, is a win condition, and pitches to Solitude/March.

    I think this makes The One Ring work...


    //Companion: 1
    1 Yorion, Sky Nomad

    //Lands: 32
    3 Wasteland
    4 Urza's Saga
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    1 Arid Mesa
    1 Prismatic Vista
    1 Flooded Strand
    11 Plains
    2 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
    2 Karakas
    1 Castle Ardenvale
    2 Emeria's Call

    //Spells: 18
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 March of Otherworldly Light
    3 Abeyance
    3 Doomskar
    2 Sevinne's Reclamation
    2 Cosmic Intervention

    //Creatures: 11
    3 Samwise the Stouthearted
    4 Timeless Dragon
    4 Solitude

    //Enchantments: 1
    1 Land Tax

    //Artifacts: 14
    1 Zuran Orb
    1 Soul-Guide Lantern
    2 Expedition Map
    2 Currency Converter
    4 Staff of the Storyteller
    4 The One Ring

    //Planeswalkers: 4
    4 Karn, the Great Creator

    //Sideboard: 14
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Isochron Scepter
    1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Deafening Silence
    1 Serenity
    1 Humility
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Orim's Chant


    Yorion is profitable with Staff, Solitude, The One Ring, Karn, Samwise. It also pitches to March & Solitude.

    Staff works with Saga, Currency Converter, Timeless Dragon, Castle Ardenvale, Emeria's Call, other Staffs, Yorion.

    Cosmic Intervention is profitable with all sorts of interactions: Wasteland, fetchlands, Expedition Map, Soul-Guide Lantern, Zuran Orb + Flagstones, evoke Solitude, Doomskar, Ratchet Bomb, something dying

    Samwise + Karakas creates lategame loops with Wasteland, fetchlands, Urza's Saga, Soul-Guide, Expedition Map, other Samwise, evoke Solitude, 2x The One Ring (legend rule each other), Ratchet Bomb, Serenity

    Karn/Etutor -> Scepter can imprint Abeyance (to lock out spell-based decks) or StP (to lock out creature-based decks) or Chant post-board.

    I like the possibility of multiple card advantage engines instead of relying on one to work. There is a lot of graveyard dependence, which could get hated out post-board, but you also have the option to board out some of those slots for ETutor + silver bullets.

    Needs testing. The 80-card plan might be too clunky. The SB (and combo in general) certainly get worse with 80 cards vs 60. Doomsday is basically a write-off. Could not find a way to make that matchup playable: 1-of Torpor Orb isn't enough to win and too much anti-synergy with the rest of the deck. Other combo can be disrupted with Deafening Silence/Canonist, grave hate, Karn, Abeyance, Isochron Scepter.

    Edit: There are 30 cards with a 4cmc+ mode, but only 8 of them must be cast for that much mana (or risk being dead in hand)! The other 22 have alternate modes on 3 or fewer lands. I find this flexibility appealing. Lategame you have expensive tools to spend mana on, but early game there are still plenty of actions to take.

  3. #843

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I don't like 80 cards list. Not only is it ever so slightly more variance, land tax does even less as taking 3 lands out of the deck barely make your draws better. It seems like a poor strategy for a control deck that wants to streamline their draws.

    Once again, the ring seems to be pushing you towards more of a combo shell. I'm not saying it's worse but it's getting further away from the spirit of the deck imo.

  4. #844
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    I don't like 80 cards list. Not only is it ever so slightly more variance, land tax does even less as taking 3 lands out of the deck barely make your draws better. It seems like a poor strategy for a control deck that wants to streamline their draws.

    Once again, the ring seems to be pushing you towards more of a combo shell. I'm not saying it's worse but it's getting further away from the spirit of the deck imo.
    Good points.

    Perhaps it could be trimmed down to 60 cards:


    //Lands: 22
    3 Urza's Saga
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    1 Arid Mesa
    10 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
    1 Castle Ardenvale
    1 Wasteland

    //Spells: 15
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 March of Otherworldly Light
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Abeyance
    2 Cosmic Intervention
    2 Doomskar

    //Creatures: 10
    2 Samwise the Stouthearted
    4 Timeless Dragon
    4 Solitude

    //Enchantments: 1
    1 Land Tax

    //Artifacts: 10
    1 Zuran Orb
    1 Soul-Guide Lantern
    1 Expedition Map
    1 Currency Converter
    3 Staff of the Storyteller
    3 The One Ring

    //Planeswalkers: 2
    2 Karn, the Great Creator

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Isochron Scepter
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Deafening Silence
    1 Serenity
    1 Humility
    1 Porphyry Nodes
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Wasteland
    3 Orim's Chant


    Karn is less necessary without the RiP+Helm combo. With both Karn & The One Ring that's 5 4cmc cards, but every other card in the deck has a mode at 2-mana or less.

    The deck-thinning is still in tact: Land Tax, Timeless Dragon, Expedition Map loops, Flagstones + Zuran Orb, fetch + Cosmic/Samwise...

    The same card advantage engines are present, just in lower numbers and without Yorion interaction.

  5. #845
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Well Iím officially at a crossroads. While I have been enjoying the path Iím currently on, the back of my mind keeps telling me that I can be a chalice/3 sphere deck and the changes that does may actually make a stronger, more streamlined plan. The problem is that focus will up dead draws, but the card draw ceiling should still remain high so I donít know if thatís actually an issue. It was a gut feeling, and they do tend to be correct.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  6. #846
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    Well Iím officially at a crossroads. While I have been enjoying the path Iím currently on, the back of my mind keeps telling me that I can be a chalice/3 sphere deck and the changes that does may actually make a stronger, more streamlined plan. The problem is that focus will up dead draws, but the card draw ceiling should still remain high so I donít know if thatís actually an issue. It was a gut feeling, and they do tend to be correct.
    You might be onto something.

    The Chalice/3sphere plan used to be too high variance with bad draws, historically. That was before multiple new developments:
    - The One Ring / Karn as powerful card engines
    - Initiative & Monarch mechanics
    - MDFC and utility lands reducing variance from topdecking mana sources
    - Pitch elementals like Solitude
    - Timeless Dragon to turn Sol mana into basic Plains

    A white stompy shell can be quite consistent now. The recent Mono W Initiative deck proved it. Moon Stompy is now Tier 1 too. So you might find a viable white control shell there too. Sol mana would help accelerate into big plays like Karn and The One Ring.

  7. #847
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    And I was already trying to do the big plays with efficient white spells and sol lands. Cutting the efficient white means the sol lands will hurt much less which is where my main issue was coming from. Starting with a colourless shell feels like the answer
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  8. #848

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I'll be trying a list with slight variations this month.

    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Zuran Orb
    1 Isochron Scepter
    2 Currency Converter
    1 Expedition Map
    4 Staff of the Storyteller
    1 Phyrexian Furnace

    1 Land Tax
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Humility
    1 Ghostly Prison

    4 Orim's Chant
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    3 March of Otherworldly Light
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Abeyance
    2 Cosmic Intervention

    2 Doomskar

    3 Karn, the Great Creator

    13 Plains
    3 Urza's Saga
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    1 Castle Ardenvale
    1 Lotus Field
    1 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire

    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    3 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Skrelv's Hive
    1 Sevinne's Reclamation

    I feel that adding 4x staves maindeck has helped stabilize mana quite a bit but I might be too light on "threats" now. I guess I need to test in real games to be certain. Either way I'm not sure there currently is many 3-4 drops that would make opponents snap-force and would fit in the main.

    The first notable change is Skrelv in the sideboard. I'm interested to see how it does with Staff against control decks as it seems hard to match the pressure and card advantage. Unlike Bitterblossom, this only needs to deal 10 damage so stp does not become a liability.

    The second is abandoning the red splash. I didn't feel like T3 moon had much utility in my local meta anymore. It might still be okay but I feel like T3 (at best) moon is a little slow and doesn't seem to punish as well as it used to. This allowed me to streamline the list so it sees less variance.
    Last edited by Cpt-Qc; 10-05-2023 at 04:42 AM.

  9. #849

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 11 Artifact
    2 Currency Converter
    1 Expedition Map
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Isochron Scepter
    4 Staff of the Storyteller
    1 Zuran Orb
    1 Phyrexian Furnace

    // 2 Creature
    2 Timeless Dragon

    // 5 Enchantment
    1 Humility
    1 Land Tax
    1 Rest in Peace
    2 Touch the Spirit Realm

    // 13 Instant
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    3 March of Otherworldly Light
    4 Orim's Chant
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    // 23 Land
    1 Castle Ardenvale
    1 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    1 Lotus Field
    12 Plains
    3 Urza's Saga
    1 Karakas

    // 3 Planeswalker
    3 Karn, the Great Creator

    // 3 Sorcery
    2 Doomskar
    1 Sevinne's Reclamation


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 4 Artifact
    SB: 1 Helm of Obedience
    SB: 1 Liquimetal Coating
    SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle

    // 4 Creature
    SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth

    // 7 Enchantment
    SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
    SB: 2 Skrelv's Hive
    SB: 1 Sacred Mesa
    SB: 1 Deafening Silence

    This is the latest list I've been testing. I'm liking it so far even if mana can be a little sketchy.

    I am really loving Touch the spirit realm and Timeless Dragon with converters. They also work really well for mana efficiency.

  10. #850
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Hoping to get back to this soon. I think the run Iíve been having of a different deck every week is going to help me get over the hang ups Iíve been having on build. Hopefully Iíll have something to report soon.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  11. #851

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I think I'm reaching critical mass where the list is very fine-tuned but I just lack the experience and talent to pilot the deck. I've made several changes after trying stuff and I really like my list atm. I'm currently testing 2x surgicals because the only thing I don't have much of a shot against are T1 decks on the draw. If I have both surgicals and leylines I feel like that would be fixed.

    My most recent addition is Hall of Heliod's Generosity. Bringing back Urza's Saga every time it dies is incredibly powerful. Not only does it apply great pressure with 2x bodies, it gets me the engine pieces I need to keep going. It also allows me to jam a humility into a force of will and still bring it back a few turns later. It's an absolute menace and I'm surprised nobody has been doing it so far. I was just looking for a new utility land and accidentally saw that and didn't realize until a few hours what it enabled.

    // Parfait 2.0

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 11 Artifact
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Isochron Scepter
    2 Currency Converter
    1 Expedition Map
    3 Staff of the Storyteller
    1 Phyrexian Furnace
    1 Zuran Orb
    1 Vexing Bauble

    // 3 Creature
    3 Timeless Dragon

    // 5 Enchantment
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Humility
    2 Touch the Spirit Realm
    1 Land Tax

    // 13 Instant
    4 Orim's Chant
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    3 March of Otherworldly Light
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    // 23 Land
    12 Plains
    3 Urza's Saga
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    1 Castle Ardenvale
    1 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
    1 Karakas
    1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity

    // 2 Planeswalker
    2 Karn, the Great Creator

    // 3 Sorcery
    2 Doomskar
    1 Sevinne's Reclamation


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 4 Artifact
    SB: 1 Liquimetal Coating
    SB: 1 Helm of Obedience
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Staff of the Storyteller

    // 4 Creature
    SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth

    // 5 Enchantment
    SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
    SB: 1 Sacred Mesa
    SB: 1 Deafening Silence

    // 2 Instant
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

  12. #852
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Hall is strong.

    I've been playing Hall + Saga in UWx Landstill for a while. The interaction is very strong late game in a control deck (especially with other enchantments to return like Standstill and Shark Typhoon). Guess I never thought of it for Parfait above. It should be good here too. Getting back Touch the Spirit Realm or Land Tax or Humility seems strong.

    Hall recovers Sacred Mesa if you get stuck missing an upkeep.

    Hall is cute with a SB 1-of Serenity. You can ETutor it against 8cast and have a recurring 2 mana board wipe. Unless they Force of Negation it, they can't beat that.

  13. #853
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    @Cpt-qc, You had me at Zuran Orb. God bless you.
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  14. #854

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by the Thin White Duke View Post
    @Cpt-qc, You had me at Zuran Orb. God bless you.
    The card may look cute, but it is everything we need to survive just a little longer, especially against decks like burn. I've even considered running nyx-fleeced ram as a few life points matter a lot for a deck that needs to make several land drops.

    Often times you end up with 6 lands and run short on time so both orb and orim's chant buy you a few turns.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Hall is strong.

    I've been playing Hall + Saga in UWx Landstill for a while. The interaction is very strong late game in a control deck (especially with other enchantments to return like Standstill and Shark Typhoon). Guess I never thought of it for Parfait above. It should be good here too. Getting back Touch the Spirit Realm or Land Tax or Humility seems strong.

    Hall recovers Sacred Mesa if you get stuck missing an upkeep.

    Hall is cute with a SB 1-of Serenity. You can ETutor it against 8cast and have a recurring 2 mana board wipe. Unless they Force of Negation it, they can't beat that.
    And since I play expedition map, saga is a self-sustaining engine (saga->map->hall->repeat). If I drew hall, I can also etutor for saga to start the chain.

    I was considering Serenity but ended up with 2x surgicals instead as I already have 5 maindeck artifact removal + 2 karns. These usually let me control artifact decks pretty easily already by blowing up their lands/petals (liquimetal with karn and scepter with march).

  15. #855
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    And since I play expedition map, saga is a self-sustaining engine (saga->map->hall->repeat). If I drew hall, I can also etutor for saga to start the chain.
    Yeah, the Saga + Hall + Map + ETutor package is a great lategame engine.

    Saga -> Map -> Hall -> replay Saga -> Currency Converter -> value mana sinks for the rest of the game & out draw opponent

    I ran that package with Map, ETutor, Currency Converter, and Sevinne's Reclamation in Landstill and tried it over many games. There was more discussion on it a while back on the UWx Landstill thread. Fox has played it too. The engine's strong with Standstill (doesn't cast any spells! Hall returns Standstill). It should be good in Parfait too, with Hall returning Land Tax and Saga finding Zuran Orb.

    It's an elegant package. It doesn't take much space. It's easy to assemble. I like that it's a lategame inevitability engine using low CMC pieces that aren't dead early. Sevinne's Reclamation makes it resilient to removal/Wasteland. Many different play patterns possible.

    The ETutors + Sagas also allow a toolbox package of 0-1 cmc artifacts. High consistency finding stuff like Soul-Guide Lantern or Pithing Needle, especially with Karn too!

    In Parfait, Zuran Orb can sac Saga in response to the Chapter 3 trigger. Free 2 life, and you still get the tutor & 2nd construct.
    There's also a play pattern where you make 2nd Construct on upkeep, sac Saga, put it on top with Hall, draw it, then replay Saga that turn. You miss the tutor but jump ahead a turn on constructs.

    I've experimented with Court of Ardenvale. Like Sevinne's Reclamation, it returns so many key pieces (Wasteland for Wastelock, Saga, Map, Hall, Currency Converter, Land Tax, Scroll Rack, Staff, Zuran Orb..). Sevinne's is better tempo. Court's obviously slower and depends on protecting the monarch, but insane value if it sticks. I like that the failcase still returns the card to your hand. Unlike some of the other Courts, you can still use it to come back and regain the Monarch. Returning your best 0-3 cmc permanent is a lot better than making a 1/1 token!
    Last edited by FTW; 07-04-2024 at 12:37 AM.

  16. #856

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    In Parfait, Zuran Orb can sac Saga in response to the Chapter 3 trigger. Free 2 life, and you still get the tutor & 2nd construct.
    There's also a play pattern where you make 2nd Construct on upkeep, sac Saga, put it on top with Hall, draw it, then replay Saga that turn. You miss the tutor but jump ahead a turn on constructs.
    I hadn't even realized the sacrifice effect wasn't part of the trigger. It's only the saga ability that forces sacrificing so the trigger can still search even if you don't control it anymore. Neet!

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