It doesn't seem like your matchups are getting any better with your blue splash. Is it also appears you are losing to what should be auto wins (assuming big eldrazi is post or a variant).
So with that said, I don't think "counters" is where we want to be. The idea with my bdi parfait list is to ask questions because if your opponent doesn't have the answer they lose. That's a big draw to play an enlightened tutor silver bullet strategy.
Blood moon is better then back to basics. You are effectively switching out a lock piece for annoyance as B2B still gives at least a one time use.
Counterbalance is best with top. It may be worth a miser copy, but stacking your deck for it can interfere with the raw card advantage you get with tax. Rack for 7+ is going to better for you then setting up a single counterbalance.
Normally I would say cut all your non basics for basics. Make tax as powerful as you can. The difference with blue is that you get mana severance. Belcher + severance should probably see main deck, or at the very least belcher main, severance board. Colourless removal, a pseudo shuffle, and a win con for a single slot is worth it.
Detention sphere should probably be upped to 3 copies main. O ring is great game one by being versatile removal. It means game 2 you can side in to better specific hate without hurting you and still have a lot of generic removal as needed.
No supreme verdict?
No zuran orb?
That's all from a first glance.
The Parfait Meta-Game
Originally Posted by Weapon X
Thank you first for your feedback
Maybe you should play ~10 matches vs diff archetypes with my build first before argue about it
I think the basic idea so far doesnīt give us any good big tournament results in the last years right ;-)
So I took a kind of diff approach to it
For many years UWx Miralce was the best (Control) Deck of the Format but to many people still
donīt think about other directions after the top ban because in their minds miracle is without a doubt still
the Nr. 1 UWx Control Shell
Here I think Parfait can give players a diff approach of proactive control and lock cards
Blood Moon is ofc better then B2B but of color... like BS is the best draw spell for every deck but not every deck is blue
Rack&CB work really good you can put back 4 cards the 3 "useless" lands and the right CMC
mana severance on its own its a dead card and RIP is a great Meta call on its own
I think you donīt get the idea what my version tries to accomplish I would recommend to you give it a shot before argue about it ;-)
Zuran Orb <<< Trade Routes
Supreme Verdict << Humility & RIP Lock
But I can also see 2 Detention sphere MB
How does your record looks like?
Maybe we can get the best out of the 2 builds
For BIG Eldrazi
All IS Dust
Karn Liberated
ugin, the spirit dragon
ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
sorcerous spyglass
chalice of the void
are pretty hard to beat all together
Honestly not sure of the numbers. It's been the deck I was playing since tax was unbanned. I went undefeated in the first 3 tournaments and otherwise it holds a higher then .500 record for me.
I have 3 wraths, 3 o rings, 4 paths, pitching needle, 4 chant, blood moon, humility, and 4 tutors main as a quick gloss of answers to your problem cards which I beat all together. I'm already going over them before they're problems and should be able to win before they are issues as well as it's not a fast deck.
I appreciate you agreeing with bloodmoon being a better card then B2B, but I feel you are missing the why. Being able to still play spells, even if it's a single time, doesn't hurt your opponent. The colour of it is irrelevant as it's effect isn't desirable.
Rack doesn't do what top does. Multiple racks in play is not where you want to be. This is why I feel counterbalance and rack is bad, especially for the slots they take.
I agree mana severance is a bad card, but one slot to allow non basics is strong, especially with charbelcher. Having multiple ways to win is a strength of my build and made stronger by just riding what the deck does normally.
If you're losing to creatures and storm then zuran orb is better then trade routes. One land can equal a turn which is more then a card. Verdict similarly clears threats. We can still lose to swarms of 1/1's which some decks make.
Edit: while I'm thinking about it, my deck seeks to control the game then combo. You look like you want to combo asap and just protect it. That's where I see the big "control" difference
The Parfait Meta-Game
So are you saying a Mana Severance in the SB is not worth doing?
My MB is more or less an exact copy of yours.
I'm changing around the SB to look like this: (and see how it goes for me)
1x Aegis of the Gods
1x Aura of Silence
1x Dark Depths
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Rest in peace
1x Mana Severance
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Runed Halo
2x Seal of Cleansing
2x Timely Reinforcements
I'm saying mana severance is worth a slot if you're already in blue and want to play non basics. With red non basics are less of a problem with charbelcher as they should be plateaus in most cases so it's a way to double damage. With blue you are more likely to play tundra and fetches at a minimum as most people who play blue will ignore the other colour. In the case of parfait you have a mono white control deck that people generally want to play heavy blue in and with UU as a common casting cost.
So I feel I strayed a bit, but if you're in Wr parfait there is no need for severance. You have tax to fish out your basics and you can leave a mountain in the deck. If you insist of playing non basics and are already in blue I would consider severance and belcher.
The Parfait Meta-Game
Here's my deck, and by what you've said it looks I should probably cut Mana Severance since I'm not running non-basics.
Artifact (14)
1x Goblin Charbelcher
2x Helm of Obedience
1x Ivory Tower
1x Lotus Petal (testing as I don't own a Mox Opal and Chrome Mox is now worth it)
3x Mox Diamond
1x Pithing Needle
3x Scroll Rack
1x Trinisphere
1x Zuran Orb
Sorcery (3)
2x Terminus (might be switching it to 2 more WoG). Though in the one actual tournament I've played with this (aka never actually playested this) Terminus has been pretty good.
1x Wrath of God
Enchantment (13)
1x Blood Moon
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Humility
4x Land Tax
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Rest in Peace
1x Solitary Confinement
Instant (12)
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Orim's Chant
4x Path to Exile
Land (18)
2x Mountain
16x Plains
Honestly the opal can just as easily be another land, but I had considered petal. I just wanted a permanent source of mana.
Yeah my list has no reason to play mana severance. Charbelcher is more of the surprise factor as you will traditionally win with rip/helm. The problem is rip is so good that a lot of decks will try to deal with it to the point where you can't even win with rip/helm. Belcher gives you that alternate way to win that people may expect, but won't prepare for. It like a main board "side into dudes" plan.
Also as an aside, you can use belcher to "shuffle" your deck. Not common, but good to know.
The Parfait Meta-Game
Yeahh I am also not 100% sure about the numbers... its still a project for all of us
How are your matchups since the Top Bann? Do you have a track of your records?
I donīt like Wrath at all -> it just is a 1 time board cleaner not a permanent solution
Humility > Wrath
- BR Reanimator
- Dark Detphs
- Big Red (Sneak Attack)
- Big Eldrazi
- D&T vs Flickerwisp & co nonsense
- Elves vs Reclamation Sage and eto fetch Dryad Dryad into Craterhoof Behemoth
- Maverik with Dark Depths & Qasali Pridemage
- Golbins haste
and so on
I like the ideas of a permanent 2 card lock (RIP & Field) and Humility for most cards how could get around this lock:
- Reclamation Sage
- Qasali Pridemage
- Flickerwisp
- Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
- Tidespout Tyrant
But after all does we really want to have 3 Humilitys MB I donīt think so they are to clunky in a lot of matchups
4 Chant
for what?
sure 1/10 times you win g1 by catching combo on surprise but normally they discard you before
to get a spell through?
is it not better to run the money spells as 4offs to just play them 2 times if the first one gets countered
and in top decking second business spell >>> chant
Blood moon
sure Moon > B2B but I want to stay 2c and both do their job
B2B forces them to play more lands with is a great place to be in with Land Tax
if you run red ofc Moon is better
4 Tutors
I started testing with 4 as well but they are all the time a virtual -1 do we really want this vs Delver.dec?
BS does also a great job of digging and card advantage
Ofc we want some ETutors in our deck but I think 4 is too much of an drawback
with 4 Land Tax and 2 Enlightened Tutor
~39,9% of having Land Tax in starting 7
~54,1% of having Land Tax or Enlightened Tutor in starting 7
~59.3% of having Land Tax or Enlightened Tutor T2 otp
~64.0% of having Land Tax or Enlightened Tutor T2 otd
~72.1% of having Land Tax or Enlightened Tutor after BS on T2 otp
~75.5% of having Land Tax or Enlightened Tutor after BS on T2 otd
3 o rings
My question here is what permanent really bothers us g1?
Yeahh not so much so instead of taking care of 1 permanent that is a bit annoying I prefer to
shut them out of the game with Counterblance or win with Helm and they can keep their 1 permeant
"Rack doesn't do what top does. Multiple racks in play is not where you want to be. This is why I feel counterbalance and rack is bad, especially for the slots they take."
Rack is like a "Brainstorm" every time we need it and yeahh I enjoying it when I have out 2 Racks
Look at Miracles they still play CB and argue that even if you never get the chance to set up a single CB Trigger you still get value out of it over time
We have many good options to set up our cards its just an MVP in Control Mirrors or Combo Matches
Try it out and give it a shot
"I agree mana severance is a bad card"
so I donīt like to run it because with all the Rack BS and Land Tax I will do the same job
"If you're losing to creatures and storm then zuran orb is better then trade routes. One land can equal a turn which is more then a card. Verdict similarly clears threats. We can still lose to swarms of 1/1's which some decks make."
here I think you donīt get my point
Zuran Orb is good vs Burn and maybe Delver
but does he win vs Delver on its own -> Nope
Trade Routes does a good job to change your top card for CB
and gives you a lot of value in grindy matchups and control mirrors
vs Storm Orb does nearly nothing because every good Storm pilot will go the 2-3 storm count higher
here RIP and CB are the key cards to win these matches
Here is my updated list:
// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
4 Scroll Rack
4 Mox Diamond
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Goblin Charbelcher
// 18 Enchantment
1 Web of Inertia
1 Trade Routes
4 Rest in Peace
4 Land Tax
2 Energy Field
1 Detention Sphere
3 Counterbalance
1 Humility
1 Back to Basics
// 13 Instant
3 Path to Exile
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
// 18 Land
3 Island
10 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
1 Tundra
// 1 Planeswalker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Damping Sphere
SB: 1 Back to Basics
SB: 1 Karmic Justice
SB: 1 Nevermore
SB: 3 Porphyry Nodes
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 3 Swan Song
I don't track my games, I probably should have. That said top was never really an issue outside of counter top, and even that was beatable with my diverse curve.
I like wrath because it is a permanent board cleaner. I've seen people play terminus but it feels like a trap as it is really only a delay. Plus I also have spot removal. Wrath is a good equalizer when things go south. In the end more decks care about rip anyway. A 15 vanilla 1/1 that gives you extra turns will still beat you after all.
Chant is easily the most underrated spell. It's a white time walk. You can play chant in many situations. It can stop combo mid combo which is ideal, but even before buys a turn. Forcing spells through is good, sometimes it's just good as a bait spell. Let elves combo you with their craterhoof, chant, now they aren't attacking. It is the Swiss army knife you need.
B2B forces the player to either kill it first with no need to play land, or ignore it if threats are already present.
One tax activation should cover all your card disadvantage in one game. Also you don't want to "need to" tutor for a tax. The tutors are there mainly for the silver billets. Playing so many 1 ofs that singlenhandedly beat a given deck is the reason for it. The card disadvantage is also negated by beating a deck with a single card. That's a gloss over, but there is no real reason to not play 4 tutors here.
You won't always have the right answer. O ring is the hedge there and it is tutorable. Planeswalkers are the main issue. Show and tell existing also makes it a strong inclusion.
Rack isn't brainstorm but people play both poorly. Counterbalance can gain value over time simply because it takes advantage of people wanting to be as efficient as possible. Racking multiple times is not being efficient.
Zuran orb isn't there to win the game. It's there to keep you alive and force tax activations if needed. Humility doesn't win the game on its own either but there it is in your list. Even if storm "always goes above the count" that still means zorb is doing something here.
The Parfait Meta-Game
@Arcanis
Chant is the closest you can get to a counterspell in white. And it beats any number of counters if it resolves so it can be better if opponent isn't ready to pitch a blue card. If you're in blue you might not want to play it because you have access to a lot of other cards but for mono white it is the only option. Most combo players usually don't see it as a threat and if they have discard, no card would have mattered anyway.
I'll often cut tutors when facing counterspell heavy decks/delver but my meta has a lot of non-blue decks too. Going -1 card when you know your bullet is going to stick is still the best thing you can do vs a non-blue deck so I think 4 isn't too many.
The one type of permanent I have the most trouble with is Planeswalkers. I can't stress enough how Oring/Dsphere helps vs lotv or jtms. They need to be dealth with quickly or we just lose.
I noticed a player named Simon Hugger has a couple of impressive finishes recently with a UW list.
First, on April 8, he placed 2/71 players: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27269&iddeck=217303
Then, on April 22, he placed 4/104 players: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27322&iddeck=218061
These lists are very much like the ones Arcanis001 described in this thread. Arcanis, is that you? If so, well done! As a newcomer to the deck, I encourage you to report your thoughts about these recent performances. And if that isn't you, well, it's good evidence in support of your list, so well done again. I have just ordered my Scroll Racks and Land Taxes, and I look forward to sleeving it up.
Hey,
sadly nope I still play Dark Depths in Big Events but I shared my list online so maybe someone give it a try
So or so happy so see finally a Land Tax Deck doing good in a bigger tournament
Here is my list
// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
4 Scroll Rack
4 Mox Diamond
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Goblin Charbelcher
// 18 Enchantment
1 Web of Inertia
1 Trade Routes
4 Rest in Peace
4 Land Tax
2 Energy Field
1 Detention Sphere
3 Counterbalance
1 Humility
1 Back to Basics
// 13 Instant
3 Path to Exile
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
// 18 Land
3 Island
10 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
1 Tundra
// 1 Planeswalker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Damping Sphere
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Back to Basics
SB: 1 Nevermore
SB: 3 Porphyry Nodes
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 3 Swan Song
SB: 2 Timely Reinforcements
Goblin Charbelcher MB saves 1 SB slot
Karmic Justice was not good because I face nearly 0 Pernicious Deed decks online
But I could myself seeing running the 2 B2B MB because of the meta
Timely Reinforcements is a try sometimes you need vs Delver and Co. 2-3 turns extra witch it gives to you
Damping Sphere super strong but still I have a lot of problems vs Elves
Cards to test -> Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
the new card, brightling..what do you think about it?
does it have a place as a sideboard card in parfait?
http://mythicspoiler.com/bbd/cards/brightling.html
It could, but baneslayer and similar fly. That evasion and first strike are fairly hard to beat. Added bonus you don't need to sink mana into a baneslayer. Basically it's not better then baneslayer or similar. In a pinch maybe.
The Parfait Meta-Game
Does Deathrite Shaman being banned benefit the deck in anyway?
I'd say yes it does. No longer do we need to use T1 removal on drs just to slow them down and/or make our Blood Moon good. We can keep it for real threats now.
Also, people will use more graveyard synergy decks. Since we have RIP main, we like goyf/kotr decks. Take RUG delver for example: RIP makes mongoose a 1/1 and goyf a 0/1. Now all we have to deal with are Delvers.
I don't think it changes anything. It already lost to our win con and we have needle and humility amongst other tools. More then likely I would expect another delve era. Ie people will play some new flavour of the week then lose even worse to us.
The Parfait Meta-Game
i'd like to share these interesting articles:
https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...-do-we-go-now/
https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...-legacy-purge/
Neat, but not really adding anything
The Parfait Meta-Game
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