@ E-Tutor:
IBA runs 2 and not 4 is because he also runs Sensei's Divining Top.
@K-Run:
Good luck tomorrow. I'm gonna be greedy and expect a tournament report :P
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forumsOriginally Posted by Kyle
Match 1 vs Maverick
Game 1: I do not draw either Swords or Terminus.
Game 2: I misplay, not casting Humility when I can to keep my land count under opponent's. Gaddock Teeg then enters the battlefield and I'm unable to Terminus.
0-1-0
Match 2 vs Maverick
Game 1: I easily win.
Game 2: I misplay, not ordering my cards correctly with Top.
Game 3: Time is called early on.
0-1-1
Match 3 vs... Maverick
Game 1: Cursed Totem on 2nd turn proves to be enough.
Game 2: My Karakas keeps Thalia out of play and my opponent lacks mana.
Match 4 vs High Tide
Game 1: I think I might have my best possible main deck board vs High Tide (Mistveil Plains and Scroll Rack) but my opponent has Blue Sun's Zenith to kill my dream.
Game 2: I have my hoser (Rule of Law) countered. My deck seemed irrelevant in this matchup.
1-2-1
Some thoughts:
- I really liked having Tithe.
- I think I need a better sideboard vs High Tide, i.e. more Leylines + Greater Auramancy.
- Luminarch Ascension was good too.
- I need to learn to play correctly.
Raphaël Caron
Pegasus Hero
Rule of Law and Ethersworn Canonist are much, much more effective against High Tide than Leylines.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
I have some new modifications. I have feeling that deck is still more and more consistent...
EDIT: I have tested today a I did some updates before tournament (* = changed)
DECKLIST v4.1:
Mana Base (17+5+2)
11x Plains
*2x Wasteland (removed 1x Mistveil Plains & 1x Kor Haven)
4x City of Traitors
3x Mox Diamond
2x Chrome Mox
*2x Tithe (new added, seems to be good, but more testing needed...)
Kill (2)
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant (in 4 tournaments I have used Elspeth only once to kill opponent...)
1x Luminarch Ascension (good kill condition under scepter/chant lock, solitary, moat)
*3x Land Tax (one removed for 2nd Tithe based on K-Run's list...)
3x Scroll Rack
1x Humility
1x Moat
1x Zuran Orb
1x Story Circle
2x Isochron Scepter
4x Orim's Chant
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Ghostly Prison
4x Enlightened Tutor
3x Swords to Plowshares (I have decided not to use PtE anymore as it was very often disadvantage for me when opponent put another land and accelerated...)
1x Pithing Needle
2x Noxious Revival (very good with Terminus, killed Elspeth, Wastelands, ...)
*3x Terminus (with Revival's perfect, I have completely removed Wrath of God)
*1x Ethersworn Canonist (1x Powder Keg moved to sideboard, hope Canonist will be better in my metagame...)
*1x Sensei's Diving Top - Based on K-run's post below (removed Solitary Confinement (used only rarely))
Sibeboard:
1x Grafdigger’s Cage
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Pithing Needle
1x Cursed Totem
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Surgical Extraction
*1x Powder Keg (removed from main deck)
*1x Ethersworn Canonist (one moved to main deck)
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
*1x Aura of Silence (one removed for 2md Timely Reinforcements)
*2x Timely Reinforcements (new added, not yet tested)
From big list of possible maindeck cards I'm thinking about to test maindeck some of these cards after finishing with testing of the current new added cards. What do you think about these cards and please share your experience with them:
Mana Base & Lands: (possible remove -1x Kor Haven, -2x Wasteland, maybe -1x Plains - how many Plains is needed for Land Tax (minimum)??? )
- 1-2x Tithe
- 3-4x Scrying Sheets + SnowCovered Plains
- 1x Serra's Sanctum - I have tested a bit, but seems to me not very helpfull in early game phase as my enchantments are mana expensive, so I had usually Sanctum for 0-2mana. In late game it was good, but I had often already everything under control... I vintage I never played Sanctum too, I used to play Tolarian Academy. With moxen, zuran and another cheap artifacts great from beginning to pay my mana intensive cards (charbelcher, jester's cap, decree of justice, ...)
- 4th Mox Diamond
Kill Conditions:
- 1x Mistveil Plains (maybe backup kill condition, but comes into play tapped...)
- 2x Painter's Servant + 2x Grindstone
- 2x Batterskull (only without Mystic...) (5mana is too much for me I think)
Searching & other:
- 1-2x Sensei's Diving Top (not sure about benefit as I have scroll rack/enlig.tutors...)
- 2x Abeyance
Board Control:
- 2x Suppression Fileld
- 1x Aura of Silence (maybe I will put one copy back to main, but now it seems to work without...)
- 1x Cataclysm
- 3-4x Mana Tithe
- 1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
- 1x Nevermore
- 1x Karakas
- 1x Maze of Ith
- 1x Ethersworn Canonist
- 1x Porphyry Nodes
@Pelikanudo
- Reito Lantern is good, but it is one slot which I don't have, so Mistveil Plains is better for me
- I have removed Charbelcher as it was a bit slow with non-basic land I play now. I don't know about you guys, but I usually win game one not by killing opponent, but because he resign.Sometimes it seems that I really don't need any kill conditions... So I have decided to cut my kill conditions to minimum. Currently for me Elspeth+Luminarch is enough (plus very rarely scroll rack or scepter+noxious). While Argivian Find in main I prefered to play Charbelcher over Elspeth as I had no chance to take it back from graveyard but Noxious solved this issue...)
Some tips for discussion to all of you:
- is 4x Scroll Rack not too much?
- is Sensei's really needed?
- is 4th Mox Diamond needed?
- is Solitary Confinement needed?
- is Serra's Sanctum needed?
- is Wasteland needed?
- is Abeyance needed?
- what is your experience with Batterskull?
- have some of you tested Kor Haven/Maze of Ith?
- have some of you tested Mana Tithe?
In next 3 weeks I'm going to play in 4 local and 2 bigger tournaments so I will have chance to test much more than before.
Last edited by TaxMan; 09-04-2012 at 05:29 AM. Reason: update
No. This card is central to the strategy (Terminus).
In my opinion, yes. Resolving a Top is easier than a Scroll Rack and it makes it possible to Terminus during an opponent's turn. I'm thinking about adding a 3rd to my decklist, actually.
Possibly not. This is the card I might cut for the 3rd Top.
I'm not sure. It's super strong in the right context but unless you have the Tax/Rack engine going, it's only a destroyable Time Walk. I think a deck packing four of these with A. Finds, Skull of Orm and tricks like that might be feasible, but this would be another deck altogether.
No. Too conditional.
I don't think so. I use Pithing Needle when needed.
Cool card, but I don't have the slots for something like that. I'd play Orim's Chant over this anyway.
It's been good so far! The only downside is the mana cost. That's why I went from 2 copies to a single one.
Since we don't have a way to fetch for these early on, it's rather weak I'd say. I'd rather kill the attacking creature.
I think this card is too conditional. I didn't test it though.
Raphaël Caron
Pegasus Hero
Been working on this for a while now, and have done 2 local tourneys and a big 1.5 with probably 40+ players. List I ran was mono-white. I've gone 2-2 every time sadly (EDIT: Big 1.5 was 2-2-1). Been a couple weeks since I last played it so I'll just list experiences with a few decks and individual cards.
List I ran was:
1xKarakas
17x Plains
3xPath to Exile
4xSwords to Plowshare
4xOrim's Chant
3xArgivian Find
3xEnlightened Tutor
3xIsochron Scepter
1xGoblin Charbelcher
1xIvory Tower
1xPithing Needle
3xScroll Rack
2xZuran Orb
2xHumility
1xMoat
2xAura of Silence
3xRuned Halo
4xLand Tax
2xElspeth
SB:
1xKarmic Justice
2xAura of Silence
2xRelic of Progenitus
1xTormod's Crypt
4xMana Tithe
2xSilence
1xGrafdigger's Cage
1xArgivian Find
Show & Tell: Played against 3 of these, amazingly ran into 3 different versions. Sneak/Show, Show/Omniscience, Show/HiveMind. I won once having Orim's chant on a stick + 3 more chant effects in hand, but other than that got smoked. Against Hive and Omniscience both first games they Show & Tell'd and I'm like "Cool I have Karakas/Humility.....oh...thats a Hive Mind/Omniscience... :( "
Played Canadian Thresh 3 times. Went 2-0 against one of them, went 1-2 against other 2. Runed Halo's were pretty useful here, and often ate a pierce for something else. This matchup really made me want a 4th Argivian Find. Really nice against this. Also the high mana curve really hurt here. I hated drawing Elspeths in my hands, Aura of Silence was terrible of course, as was Pithing Needle. Really wanted a CoP green or something in board.
NIC Fit: Played against 3 of these and went 2-1 each time. Not a bad matchup at all. Liliana doesn't do much at all against this, and Runed Halo makes her pretty much worthless. I Pithing Needled Deeds and brought Karmic Justice from board. Humilty + Moats pretty easy to get against it and Vet Explorer can help too. Most importantly Chant/Stick is auto win.
Elves: 2-0 Humilty/Moated and Chant/Stick. Stalled with swords and stuff
TES 1-2 Felt I could have pulled this off but had to mull to 5 two times, just some tough luck drawing lots of lands or silence effects with no lands :( Had one Leyline of Sanctity main at the time I played against this and tutored for it game 1.
Maverick: Played against it twice. 2-1 each time. Chant/Stick was auto win as was Humility Moat.
Lands: Won 2-0. Land Tax was always active, Belchered fairly early both games
U/W Miracle: 1-1-1 Pretty fun match, close games. He won game two from a sideboard Purify o_o and a followup Entreat the Angels. He did have Serenities but never got them active because of Aura of Silences (which were very nice this matchup) Cant remember how I won game 1, pretty sure I double orim's chanted into a Belcher or Isochron + Orim's.
Can't remember other games.
Individual card thoughts:
1. I did not like Elspeth. I got her ult off once vs NIC Fit once and still lost. Charbelcher was the superior win condition by far. Her mana cost really makes things difficult.
2. Runed Halos were mixed bags. Most games they were mediocre and almost always named a creature in play. As I mentioned, pretty nice against Canadian Thresh.
3. I always wanted Argivian Finds.
4. Ivory Tower is cool, but worthless. While I got it active a couple games, its really situational.
5. Belcher was fantastic, never had any issues running just 1 and it never let me down.
6. Scepter/Chant got me many stupid wins and scepter is good at baiting counters. However it is clunkier than I would like.
7. Not having saclands/sol lands wasn't an issue. I almost always chose to draw first which was enough to be one land behind. Show & Tell was the exception, not that it helped.Canadian Thresh had no trouble with this of course.
8. No Wrath effects for me. I had 1 Wrath in earlier and 4 mana was too much most of the time. Terminus I dislike more because it relies on Scroll Rack, otherwise its even worse than the Wrath.
9. Aura of Silence: I really did like having these against some matchups, but doesn't deserve a maindeck slot. Too dead against a lot of stuff.
Currently working on RBW Parfait with Duress & Burning Wish mb, with Gemstone Mine, Undiscovered Paradise, and Mox Diamonds for mana fixers. I like it a lot so far and if I can nail it down a bit more & if there's interest I'll post it.
Someone was playing this deck at SCG Portland yesterday. I didn't see much of what was going on, aside from the last few minutes of a match that went to time. The parfait player then whiffed with Charbelcher, getting his opponent to 1 life before the Turn 5 made it a draw.
Regardless, pretty rad to see this deck at a big event. I'm curious to hear how it did.
Pox
Stax
Deadguy Ale
Hi Guys, I haven't seen any post here during last week. No new experience, tips or decklist updates?
There are no Legacy tournaments in Quebec City I can play in until October. I might play on Tuesdays though. I'll let you know if I have anything new to share.
Raphaël Caron
Pegasus Hero
Hey Raphael. Today, I was bored and was playtesting against Goblins. We played for 4 games and went 2-2. Not sure what I'm doing wrong by I would expect it will be a blowout in favour of Parfait.
Krenko was just a beating.
Granted, I wasn't running Cursed Totem (I am running Humility instead). Any advice on outside of the "Plow the Lackey" sermon?
Also, I was checking your list. What's with the changes and what are you trying to improve in? (-1 Land Tax, Tithe and the rest).
Thanks man. I wish I can help right now with the deck's development (as I was intending to) but I've been busy.
Last edited by (nameless one); 09-11-2012 at 10:00 PM.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
I haven't played vs Goblins in a while, but I'd say having 4 wrath effects would help a lot. What killed you exactly?
The deck needs a way to Tax more efficiently. Land Tax is best played when your opponent already has more lands than you. However, there are many many ways to make the land count even (opponent wastelands his own land, Quirion Ranger, etc.). An opponent won't restrict himself if Land Tax isn't in play. Tithe allows to get a land and to shuffle in any circumstances. It's less powerful than Land Tax but more reliable.
Luminarch Ascension is there to help winning vs control pre-board.
The Cursed Totem came in to help vs Maverick, which is a very popular deck around here.
Raphaël Caron
Pegasus Hero
I played yesterday in small local tournament against some not very common decks:
1st round DeadGuy Stoneblade 1-2, but it should be 1-1 (game1 scepter-chant, game2 I had bad cards and he was to fast, game3 first turn scepter-chant followed by disenchant...and than my misplay in last added turn!),
2nd round Infect 1-2 (game1 he was to fast, I think kill turn 2 or 3. game2 first turn swords, 3rd turn moat and than wasteland to nexus. killed by luminarch. game3 first turn scepter-chant followed by Viridian Corrupter. next turn Sensei, than topdeck 2x Swords but always had instant protection...)
3rd round MonoBlack 2-0 (easy game. first game moat, than scepter/chant. second game first turn scepter/swords)
In general I can say, that game one is very often win for me (scepter-chant lock), but 2nd game: serenity/disenchat/krosan grip, ... Scepter/Chant is usually destroyd and it slows me down a lot.
I have tested Tithe last week and played it yesterday in local tournament. I fully aggre with K-Run, it is very good for taxing and especially shuffle effect is great under sensei/rack.
Sensei is good too, but you need any land tax/shuffle effect to make it better.
As K-Run wrote above, with Land is sometimes hard to tax, so what I see as an issue is lack of shuffling effect in my deck...
My experience with Ghostly prison is that it is not very good by itself as 1-2 creatures can still attack (those with equip, ...). I have discussed with one my friend and we have agreed my new test change should be 2-3x Armagedon main. I have tested today a bit and it seems to be very very good. armagedon/prison/luminarch was great. or maybe catalcysm?
My question to all of you:
What is you experience with Oblivion Ring. I still play it due to the flexibility, but it is more expensive than Swords or Needle and is not doing much more. I really hate her hide ability, as after disenchant/or board reset (serenity, ...) it is only great shield for opponents card! Is it really needed 1-2x or it is not needed anymore? Do we have better choice for it? I have searched Parfait's builds and I see tendency in last 2months to reduce/cut her amount in decklists...
Oblivion Ring is just more flexible than other disenchant effects (deals with creatures and Planeswalkers) and is a tutorable anti-creature. You can always side it out game 2 for more dedicated removal.
Armaggeddon? I guess it makes the deck more Prison-esque. It's a bit situational, as you don't want creatures on board unless you have Ghostly Prison out.
Raphaël Caron
Pegasus Hero
I run both Ghostly Prison and Armageddon in my current build. I think it suffers from Solitary Confinement syndrome in this deck as they are awesome but only under certain circumstances. Also, the problem with going prison is that the deck just doesn't have enough win conditions to steal certain wins.
I think the deck right now is at the verge of being "established". With Raphael constantly working on it, along with ideas from TaxMan and Pelikanudo and insights from IBA. Personally, I think the deck needs the right mix of cheap disruption and late game bombs while operating under a low number of lands.
Also, proper play is needed for the deck. I find that most of the games I lose, I try to get Tax/Rack going without real means to control the board. I think the deck should play like Quinn where you're going to try to control the board early on and use the Tax/Rack engine late game when you're down on cards.
This theory is evident with Raphael's (K-Run) reduction of Land Taxes in the main.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
what about adding 1-2x fetch lands for better shuffle effects. i hope it makes rack/sensei much better. On saturday we have bigger tournament. I will test 2x fetch land (2 wastelands removed) and 2x armageddon (if i get them untill saturday).
Also maybe I will put 4th Scroll Rack, but than I have to remove last Oblivion Ring - this i'm really not sure...
my next question is, most of parfait decklists play (without armageddon) 2x ghostly prison? we run only 1x humility and 1x moat and it is usually enough as we have 4x enl.tutor, so why 2x ghostly prison? by itself it is not so great, you need another card for lock (maze of ith, kor haven, armageddon, story circle, ...)
Ghostly prison by itself is usually not enought to stop completely an opponent. However, when you add-up the ghostly prison effects, they can become very effectives. 4 mana becomes a lot to pay for attacking with only 1 creature.
There is no knowledge that it not power.
That's exactly why it's bad: you need many copies on board for it to matter.
Raphaël Caron
Pegasus Hero
I also have removed Ghostly Prison from my list. Although mine has a singleton Solitary Confinement.
I find that Solitary Confinement is only helpful when you have the Tax/Rack engine going backed up with Zuran Orb to make sure you always have less lands than your opponent.
@K-Run:
When you first conceived Parfait, what was the Vintage meta like? I think one of the problems I have is I'm trying to port old-lists into what we have now. Times have changed since 2000. While the engine is still relevant, I feel that half of the pieces of the deck isn't as relevant.
Don't get me wrong, I think the deck is almost there, but I needs something that we haven't really thought of.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
My web site, www.TheWorldExposed.com
I built it to win vs Sligh. Then I tweaked it to deal with other matchups. Mono-b was played a lot and Land Tax was just an incredible card vs it. Mono-u was also there, but at that time it had lots of trouble dealing with Sacred Mesa if it resolved. The Workshop decks were more aggro than prison. Green didn't have Naturalize at that time too. I also ran Blood Moon, as good fetchlands didn't exist.
Enchantments were way harder to deal with. Nowadays, good answers exist in most colors, making games 2 and 3 harder to win. You don't win by resolving your silver bullet as you used to. That's the challenge of today's Parfait: how can one win with silver bullets if they are not as lethal as before?
That's the rationale behind a card like Timely Reinforcement in my sideboard. It's not as powerful as Moat, but it is way harder to deal with, in a sense. Unless something changes drastically in Magic, I expect Parfait to evolve towards a permanent-light version.
Raphaël Caron
Pegasus Hero
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