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Thread: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

  1. #1001
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    I played a 2 LDV list based on Koby's BoM list at my local tournament today. Played like a sack of dicks, 1-2 drop.

    Lost g3 to Big Red (splashing W for Orim's Chant...) when I drew 7 cards with 6 in library. He just stared at me as I went through the motions of killing him, I guess made me nervous. Lost to UR burn because I threw away a Therapy on Force instead of holding it until I found the pieces to go off. Won against a child playing UWRb...thing. Hooray. Dropped to cube.

    The deck definitely was fun. It seems like people at my store are trimming on their grave hate again so maybe I'll play it again next week.
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    I'm willing to rebuild the deck from the ground up again. It feels like I've been having some difficulty with consistency in mid-combo or getting initial mana. Maybe I'm seeing it through biased eyes after playing a series vs Maverick (Thalia... I hate you...).

    I'll get some ideas flowing throughout the next few days and post them here to get rebuilt. Willing to take a look again at 2 Chrome Mox or 2 Children of Korlis.
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    I'm willing to rebuild the deck from the ground up again. It feels like I've been having some difficulty with consistency in mid-combo or getting initial mana. Maybe I'm seeing it through biased eyes after playing a series vs Maverick (Thalia... I hate you...).

    I'll get some ideas flowing throughout the next few days and post them here to get rebuilt. Willing to take a look again at 2 Chrome Mox or 2 Children of Korlis.
    I still like 2 Mox and 13 lands. Too many times I tap out to go off and have already used my land drop for the turn, so I'm usually looking for at least one artifact-based mana source. Been playing with 2 Children again lately, and I actually like it. It feels like it really helps to not fizzle in situations where you have to go for Tendrils, a.k.a low life total. While they don't help with comboing until Grizzlebees is in play, they aren't completely horrible beforehand. You can just ping for a couple turns, or use them to fog if you're under pressure.

    I'm also thinking of testing Brain Freeze in the Tendrils spot. The mana cost is a pain in a different way, and the storm count needs to be higher, but we rarely have issues with storm count. I'm wondering if it might be possible to go off EOT, or after reanimating Griz to block on your opponent's turn. You'd get the extra 7 cards as though you're attacking, and as long as you have a free Blue source, you could conceivably win at instant speed. I'm skeptical that it could work in the real world though, without Petals, Mox, or Discard as options, it relies on a pretty specific board state and draws. On the other hand, is it demonstrably worse than Tendrils when comboing during our own main phase? If not, even the remote possibility would make it worth running.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  4. #1004

    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Hello there,

    took this deck to victory for a Tundra yesterday in a 29people tournament.
    Played with 7 protection spells (1 Silence) and the full playset of Goryo's Vengeance and Shallow Grave.
    2 Children, 10 cantrips (2 vault), 3 Griselbrand (no probes since I had no space for them :( ).

    My Sideboard was pretty much irrelevant. I allmost never drew a sideboard card and the few times I did, I couldn't use it (out of the 1 off Silence in my board).

    M1 vs High Tide
    G1 I win pretty easily.
    G2 I side in Silence, 2 Xantid Swarms + 2 Chain of Vapors (I tested with him the night before and knew he was playing 2 Extraction + 2 Gravediggers Cage). I'm allways 1 turn short of killing him when he goes to combo off and thus giving us a new hand (which sucked for me). First time I can stop him with a Silence, second time aswell, third time he fizzles and fourth time he gets me.
    G3 I win.

    M2 vs Jund
    G1 I win easily.
    G2 He gets me.. I have a hand of Griselbrand, Entomb, discard and other stuff, with a Shallow Grave on top of my library. He thoughtseizes me and discard my Entomb.
    My thoughts: If he would've had Extraction/Extirpate he would've gone for Griselbrand. Thus I get greedy using my discard spell on myself and walk right into the Extirpate.
    Later in the Game I go for Emrakul and walk right into the second one I allready thought he had while he had no real pressure on board (Lili & Shaman).. stupid me.
    G3 I discard his Extirpate and win.

    M3 vs Esperblade
    G1 I win.
    G2 I keep a greedy hand with a protected t1 kill, but my only mana source is a Chrome Mox.. which gets discarded.
    Some amount of discard later (and me not finding mana in time) I'm one turn away from dying.
    I silence him (resolves) and go for Emrakul to whipe his board and bring him to 4, unfortunately he does remember his Karakas (I knew it was there, but played to my out in he forgetting about it).
    G3 I cantrip a bit, he discards a bit, I kill him (if I remember correctly with a topdecked Goryo's Vengeance).

    M4 vs Team America
    G1 He let me discard some stuff, wastes me, stifles me and I die.
    G2 Pretty much like game 1.

    M5 vs German ******** (aka BURG)
    G1 He has everything he needs, some pressure + enough counter backup for me to die.
    G2 I have a hand of double Entomb, casting one to get rid of a FOW, casting the other which resolves. He cast a discard spell seeing a hand of Griselbrand + Land, while applying some pressure to me. I topdeck Goryo's Vengeance.
    G3 He keeps a greedy hand. Wasteland, Delver, Ponder, some counterspells.
    I have a 1 lander aswell, thankfully it's a fetch and I'm going for my swamp (first and single time this tournament).
    My hand is pretty much nuts. Fetch, Petal, Entomb, Goryo's, Therapy, Thoughtseize. I discard his first countermagic, the second one, drawing into a second therapy which gets cast and kill him.

    M6 vs Team America
    G1 I kill him.
    G2 He gets me with discard, Waste, Shamans and FOW.
    G3 There's a situation, my board: Land + Petal, my Hand: Drit, Entomb, Shallow Grave, Therapy, Silence.
    I go -> Drit, he plays Brainstorm, I Silence, he dazes it, I don't pay. Brainstorm resolves, Drit resolves.
    What do I do? Therapy for Force, cast Entomb and hope to rip a mana source? Nope. All in. Getting there.


    The deck was nuts. I had to mulligan at least once every match, some amount to time even 2 or 3 times but in the end it didn't really matter. I was quite lucky as I faced near to no hate (Shamans, Extirpates, Nihil Spellbomb) but they rarely drew their hate as I never drew my anti-hate.
    I did made some mistakes as I knew I would beforehand since I played the deck my second time (+ some testing but not that much).
    Oh and the day before I playtested it against RIP-Miracles.
    Going 6-0 preboard, and 5-1 postboard, dunno how that happend but I was funny.



    Complete decklist for those interested:

    4 Lotus Petal, 4 Dark Ritual
    2 Chrome Mox

    4 Shallow Grave, 4 Goyro's Vengeance

    3 Cabal Therapy, 3 Thoughtseize
    1 Silence

    4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder
    2 Lim-Dul's Vault

    4 Entomb
    3 Griselbrand
    2 Children of Korlis
    1 Emrakul
    1 Tendrils of Agony

    7 Fetchland
    2 Useas, 2 Scrubland


    Sideboard:
    1 Silence, 2 Xantid Swarm
    2 Chain of Vapor, 2 Serenity, 2 Teferi's Realm
    2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Pull from Eternity
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Tundra, 1 Swamp, 1 Bayou



    Edit:

    Tin Fins in round 8 vs Omnitell, two t1 kills, once with silence backup.
    Last edited by Holly; 06-09-2013 at 07:24 PM.

  5. #1005

    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    I can build the full stockish version of this deck, but I am lacking 1x Thoughtseize. What would be the best replacement for one of those?

  6. #1006
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by DredgingLoam View Post
    I can build the full stockish version of this deck, but I am lacking 1x Thoughtseize. What would be the best replacement for one of those?
    6 self-discard spells should be enough. I think a 3/3 split of Therapy and Thoughtseize is fine. You can either sub in an extra Silence main, the 14th land, the Probe, the 3rd-4th Griselbrand, or really whatever your personal and meta preference is.


    On another note, congrats to Logan Creen for top 8'ing SCG St. Louis! His list is here:
    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=56515

    At a glance his deckbuilding choices are include not playing the green splash, playing the 14th land, and Pulls in his sideboard. His list looks very solid, definitely a fine choice for a stock build. Does anyone know if he's a Sourcer?
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  7. #1007

    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmuant View Post
    6 self-discard spells should be enough. I think a 3/3 split of Therapy and Thoughtseize is fine. You can either sub in an extra Silence main, the 14th land, the Probe, the 3rd-4th Griselbrand, or really whatever your personal and meta preference is.
    I would be playing 4 Therapy and 1 Thoughtseize. Careful Study as a 1-of?

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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by DredgingLoam View Post
    I would be playing 4 Therapy and 1 Thoughtseize. Careful Study as a 1-of?
    Careful Study requires you to build the deck from the ground up to support it. I dunno...work hard at getting another Thoughtseize? Realistically you should be fine with 2 Silence and 5 discard effects as long as you max out on Probes and a couple tutor effects (either LDV or Intuition).
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  9. #1009
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Logan's Maindeck looks nearly identical to the list I played from Bazaar of Moxen, but the sideboard still runs Pull from Eternity, which has failed to work well for me since my Vegas showing. I'd love to hear his thoughts on the list and his performance. Congrats on his good finish, 9 rounds is a long way to fight through.
    Last edited by Koby; 06-10-2013 at 11:26 AM.
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  10. #1010
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Logan's Maindeck looks nearly identical to the list I played from Bazaar of Moxen, but the sideboard still runs Pull from Eternity, which has failed to work well for me since my Vegas showing. I'd love to hear hia thoughta on the list and his performance. Congrats on his good finish, 9 rounds is a long way to fight through.
    Hey guys, Logan here, I'm currently riding home and typing from my phone, so once I get some sleep, I'll go over my notes and give a short narrative.

    Highlight of the day: getting a feature match in round 8ish and 2-0ingthe the guy with consecutive turn 1 wins on camera.

    Edit: Here's the link to my feature matches:

    http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/414686764

    Go to 10:06:40 for my round 8 feature, and go to 12:44:45 for my t8 match.

    I'll try to get a report to you guys by Monday night and go over my thoughts on some things.
    Last edited by Acclimation; 06-10-2013 at 06:09 AM.

  11. #1011
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by DredgingLoam View Post
    I would be playing 4 Therapy and 1 Thoughtseize. Careful Study as a 1-of?
    How many probes are you running?

    @Logan - awesome job man, glad to see people are still putting up results with the deck, especially on camera. Loved seeing Joe double check his worthless hand when you Shallow Grave on T1.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  12. #1012
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    Hey guys, Logan here, I'm currently riding home and typing from my phone, so once I get some sleep, I'll go over my notes and give a short narrative.

    Highlight of the day: getting a feature match in round 8ish and 2-0ingthe the guy with consecutive turn 1 wins on camera.

    Edit: Here's the link to my feature matches:

    http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/414686764

    Go to 10:06:40 for my round 8 feature, and go to 12:44:45 for my t8 match.

    I'll try to get a report to you guys by Monday night and go over my thoughts on some things.
    http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/414686764?t=606m -- link to Round 8 match (lol match, it was 4 turns)
    http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/414686764?t=764m -- link to Top 8 match
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  13. #1013

    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    How many probes are you running?
    All 4

  14. #1014
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Nice finish! Curious to see what your matchups were throughout the day. Look forward to the report!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  15. #1015
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by DredgingLoam View Post
    All 4
    Then I would say it comes down to what you miss the most about the other Thoughtsieze - binning Grizzlebees or protection. Honestly, slot it up with a blank or backwards card and test a bunch of games. Every time you draw it, ask yourself if you'd rather have Silence or Careful Study. My guess is that Silence or Duress is probably where you want to be, if you're only running 2/3 Griselbrands then Careful Study will usually just be a bad cantrip.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  16. #1016
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Okay, report time. 7-1-1 in Swiss, then losing the first round in top 8 for an overall record of 7-2-1.

    Round 1: Sean on Fish

    I win the dice roll, and keep a hand with Probe, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, Entomb, Dark Ritual, Ponder, and a fetch. I probe him and see Force, Lord of Atlantis, Vial, Curse Catcher, Island, Wasteland, and Phantasmal Image. I draw another land off the probe, then Therapy the Curse Catcher. He ends up topdecking another Curse Catcher and plays that. I draw another Ritual, play my land,Thoughseize the Force, and play Ponder. I find a reanimation spell. I pass, he plays another land and a lord. I draw a lotus petal and proceed to go off with more than enough mana to pay for Curse Catcher.

    Sb: 3 Silence, -3 Probe.

    He leads off with Vial and passes. I probe him, and then Cabal Therapy his only force. Next turn I win with Silence protection.

    Round 2: I didn't write down my opponent's name, but he was on OmniClash/Knowandtell.

    He wins the dice roll and plays a ponder. I Probe him, and see that he has the god hand and will win next turn. He does.

    Sb: -3 Probe +3 Silence

    Game 2 he gets a Leyline of Sanctity on t0, but I don't draw any hand disruption, so I don't care. We durdle around for 5 turns while I attempt to find an Entomb and end up with a lot of mana sources and 3 Silences in hand when I go off on turn 6.

    Game 3: He gets the Leyline again, and I keep a hand that has 2 Silences and only missing an Entomb. I end up drawing a Griselbrand on t3. On his t4, he Show and Tells. I silence in response, it resolves. I flip Griselbrand, he shows Dream Halls. Next turn, I silence again, it resolves, and I swing with Emrakul and Griselbrand.

    Round 3: Andrew on UWR Delver (he also hit top 8).

    I win the dice roll, and do the turn one Probe into Therapy. I see Stoneforgex2, bolt, a brainstorm, and some land. I take the Brainstorm. I end up getting him on turn 2 with no resistance.

    sb: -3 Probe +3 Silence

    I get a protected turn 1 kill with Land, Petal, Silence, Rit, Entomb, Grave.

    Round 4: Sean on Jund

    Game 1 I keep a hand that needs a Reanimation spell, and I end up not finding it. He doesn't know what I'm on.

    Sb: -3 Probe -1 Silence, +2 Pithing Needle +2 Pull from Eternity

    Game 2 I get him on t2. He asked if I sideboarded into Reanimator. I laugh.

    Game 3: I keep yet another hand lack a reanimation spell. I draw into a Griselbrand, but after a few ponders and brainstorms, couldn't find one. Eventually, I burned 2 Rituals to cast Griselbrand alongside the Children of Korlis I played the turn before. His board was 3 lands, 2x Deathrite Shaman, and a Goyf, with 1 card in hand. I pass turn, and he draws Maelstrom Pulse to kill my Griselbrand (I was at 6 life). He gets me with Bolts and Deathrite Activations.

    Round 5 Feature Match (not on Camera) against Eric on budget GW Maverick.

    He wins the dice roll and goes turn 1 Horizon Canopy into MoM. I play a fetch, and Ponder, finding the Entomb I need to win next turn. He then goes t2 Horizon Canopy into Leonin Arbiter. AWKWARD. I spend the next two turns playing fetches that I can't crack, then end up playing dark ritual to pay the search tax. I crack my fetches, do the Entomb and reanimation and win.

    SB: -1 Silence -1 Probe +1 Chain +1 Echoing Truth (I was cursing myself for choosing to run Pull over Massacre at this point, despite winning the first game)

    Game 2 I draw into the turn 1 kill. Who needs to kill hatebears when you can just win on your first turn?

    Round 6: Chris on Burn.

    I draw a fair amount of hand disruption, but it's not enough to hold him off before I can find the last piece I need (FIREBLAST! *shakes fist*).

    I want to say I boarded in 2 Silences and 1 Chain of Vapor here.

    Game 2 I get him on turn 2.

    Game 3 I keep another hand that lacks reanimation, and end up on turn 2 using Reanimate on Griselbrand, dropping down to 10. I cautiously swing with Griselbrand for the next 3 turns, and not do anything else. Griselbrand gets there in the end.

    Round 7: Feature match (back up camera) against Gene on Jund.

    I probe him turn 1 and he moans about playing against a combo deck. I get him on turn 2.

    -1 Silence -2 Probe, +2 Needle +1 Pull

    Game 2: Whackity Smackity turn 1 win. He was not amused by my antics.

    Round 8: Feature Match (main camera) Versus Joe on Omniclash (I had assumed that's what he was playing, but wasn't sure until I saw the video when I got home).

    You can watch it here: http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/414686764?t=606m

    You can see my hands shaking, I was excited to get those back to back turn 1s on camera. Apparently those were the first t1 kills on Camera that day. I boarded out the Probes for the Silences as per usual. On that game 2, If he had countered the Silence, I still would have gone for it, for those who were wondering.

    Round 9 vs Edward (this guy also was in top 8)

    We ID. I then wait the longest hour of my life to see if I made it into the top 8. I make it by a few fractions of a percentage points! I was excited, my friends were giving me high fives, etc.

    Top 8 match vs Chris: You can see it here: http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/414686764?t=764m

    In boarding for Game 2, I figured that my best chance to win would be on t1/2 and decided to bring in my Silences to combat his lone Forces. I felt that bounce and the Serenties would be too slow, and that he would plan around those. I was correct on that assumption. However, for game 3, I should have boarded in the counter hate since I was going to be on the draw. I didn't really think about it due to the long day, and was wanting to be done at that point. My opening hand had Entomb and a lot of Cabal Therapy, and I felt good about it. I don't know when he drew that ensnaring bridge, but I knew that I needed to stick a threat soon. I figured that I would have at least 1 turn to swing with Griselbrand, but I was wrong (he only had the 1 Bridge). As soon as he landed it, I knew that the game was over, but I stayed with it to see if I could draw into Tendrils for a Win. But after the hate upon hate upon hate, that wouldn't happen. If you could see my face, you could see a huge grin since I was just sticking with it to be a jackass, but still. I consider this to be my only punt of the day. That being said, I'm still extremely pleased with making Top 8, this was my 3rd SCG and was only hoping to make top 64 going into the day.

    I'll type up my thoughts on my deck in another post later, just wanted to get that report out to you guys. Feel free to ask questions and I'll answer them as best as I can.

  17. #1017
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Thanks for writing about your matchups, and congrats once again. Big ups on being a degenerate!
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  18. #1018
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Thanks for writing about your matchups, and congrats once again. Big ups on being a degenerate!
    Thanks! The amount of tears and butt hurt I collected that day was enormous.

  19. #1019
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Sweet report - sounds like the deck treated you quite well. :) Thanks for showin those OmniClash players that Grizzlebees is still king!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  20. #1020
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    Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Nice report! Congrats again, Logan.

    My biggest question is how did you feel about the manabase? Has 13 lands been too inconsistent for you? Was not playing G a bet that you would dodge Miracles?

    --

    I'm definitely going to play TinFins on Wednesday. I'm going to try out a build with the basic Island, one Bayou in 14 lands, and try out .dk's old tech of Mox Diamond again. It feels like the games where we're looking for lands, Chrome Mox doesn't really help anyway and Mox Diamond should be better in the games where we're flooded or have color issues. Also have moved the Tendrils to the board. I'm more and more convinced that it doesn't deserve the maindeck slot, and should only come in against deck with Swords to Plowshares and grave hate.

    Logan, did you ever kill with Tendrils when you couldn't have killed with Emrakul?
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