Can you build anything competitive out of non-power + Time Vault?

[yankeedave]

Yes and sometimes, you draw your combo pieces, but no way to get rid of your Null Rod. Then it's just painful and mildly embarassing, having the win in hand and losing to your own hate!

[.Ix]

Check this out: http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.ph...light=2#place2

He's a friend who's been playing Oath for a long time. The list is obviously quite old, and once updated it should probably contain Jace, Missteps, Flusterstorms, and better Oath monsters. He's since gone on to the full set of power and changed the deck. One thing he misses about Chrome Mox, though, is that it can actually be used to set up huge Balance plays.

[Urza33]

Dredge is probably the most inherently powerful deck that not only does not run power, but actually punishes the opponent for playing it.

Ingot Chewers, Nature's Claim, etc. They all punish you for being artifact heavy, not to mention the potential turn 2 dredge kill.

[aahz]

Dredge is probably the most inherently powerful deck that not only does not run power, but actually punishes the opponent for playing it.

Ingot Chewers, Nature's Claim, etc. They all punish you for being artifact heavy, not to mention the potential turn 2 dredge kill.

While what you're saying is correct, we're getting to the point where Bazaars need to be considered "Power". For example, did Erik Hegemann really need the extra prize for being the highest placing "unpowered" deck at BOM in addition to the complete set of Power 9 he got for winning the whole event? No offense meant to Erik (he's clearly a very good player and it's awesome that he's here posting in the dredge thread), but I think it's pretty obvious at this point that Dredge with 4xBazaar isn't really "unpowered" except in a backwards, historical sense. Not to mention the fact that Bazaars cost more now than the Power 9 did when they were originally bestowed the title of "Power".

[boney]

You can play a shopless aggro style deck with key vault in it. I have played this deck with success in powered metagames. You can also add gamble as a tutor for key/vault which works well with the welders

Creature [21]
4 Goblin Welder
4 Juggernaut
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Lodestone Golem

Artifact [19]
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Time Vault
3 Voltiac Key
1 Grim Monolith
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
Land [20]
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
7 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
60 cards

[Koby]

You can play a shopless aggro style deck with key vault in it. I have played this deck with success in powered metagames. You can also add gamble as a tutor for key/vault which works well with the welders

Creature [21]
4 Goblin Welder
4 Juggernaut
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Lodestone Golem

Artifact [19]
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Time Vault
3 Voltiac Key
1 Grim Monolith
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
Land [20]
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
7 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
60 cards

I really like this approach. You could easily run Gorilla Shaman to have a ton of game against Powered decks too. Mox Monkey + Welder is quite effective at dispatching artifact decks.

[Bill Copes]

I'm pulling a list out of the woodwork, circa 4 years ago, but I think it may be an interesting approach:

Salem 20.07.2008
- 22 players
2. Jeff Carpenter

Maindeck (60):
Spells (44):
1 Avarice Totem
3 Basalt Monolith
1 Black Lotus
3 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Mana Crypt
1 Memory Jar
4 Metalworker
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Rings of the Brighthearth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
4 Staff of Domination
2 Thrumming Stone
3 Time Vault
1 Trinisphere
1 Triskelavus
4 Umbral Mantle
1 Tinker

Lands (16):
2 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Workshop
2 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy



Potentially Transforms to:

4 Grim Monolith
3 Basalt Monolith
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
3 Mox Opal

2 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy

4 Metalworker
3 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Memory Jar
3 Voltaic Key
4 Rings of the Brighthearth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Staff of Domination
2 Thrumming Stone
1 Time Vault
1 Trinisphere
1 Triskelavus
3 Umbral Mantle
1 Tinker

[aahz]

I really like this approach. You could easily run Gorilla Shaman to have a ton of game against Powered decks too. Mox Monkey + Welder is quite effective at dispatching artifact decks.

+1

Something else to consider about going in this direction is that the mana from Sol lands can be used for anything (unlike Workshop), so things that aren't viable in Shops might work here (i.e. things that cost R2 or have activations that require mana). Viashino Heretic could be a beast in this deck. That list is screaming for a Barbarian Ring and another Grim Monolith or two. I wonder if a white splash for Enlightened Tutor would work giving you access to a silver bullet strategy out of the board along with searching up Vault/Key. This also let's you play Thalia if you really feel lile taxing the rich even more. Just thinking out loud here.

[Koby]

Someone remind me to upload almost all of my Classic format decks into this forum. They are inherently lacking Power 9, and can be re-build without Workshops too. Make sure I do as well, cuz I'm lazy as a stoned sloth.

[boney]

+1

Something else to consider about going in this direction is that the mana from Sol lands can be used for anything (unlike Workshop), so things that aren't viable in Shops might work here (i.e. things that cost R2 or have activations that require mana). Viashino Heretic could be a beast in this deck. That list is screaming for a Barbarian Ring and another Grim Monolith or two. I wonder if a white splash for Enlightened Tutor would work giving you access to a silver bullet strategy out of the board along with searching up Vault/Key. This also let's you play Thalia if you really feel lile taxing the rich even more. Just thinking out loud here.

This is true, adding Karn also works well. Sol lands also equip the swords which is an advantage as well.

[SpikeyMikey]

While what you're saying is correct, we're getting to the point where Bazaars need to be considered "Power". For example, did Erik Hegemann really need the extra prize for being the highest placing "unpowered" deck at BOM in addition to the complete set of Power 9 he got for winning the whole event? No offense meant to Erik (he's clearly a very good player and it's awesome that he's here posting in the dredge thread), but I think it's pretty obvious at this point that Dredge with 4xBazaar isn't really "unpowered" except in a backwards, historical sense. Not to mention the fact that Bazaars cost more now than the Power 9 did when they were originally bestowed the title of "Power".

Jesus. I haven't paid attention to prices for years, but I bought Bazaars back when people still thought they were bad and I paid $12/ea. for them. At Comic-Con where prices were retarded. It's crazy to see them on SCG sold out at $250. And that's why I don't own Magic cards anymore. Sorry for the off-topic, I just found that shocking.