Indeed. In which case wouldn't Dismember be better or does it suffer the same problem? Thoughtseize and Confidant would still be playable. Either way I think that Dismember is going to be better once you are far ahead and at low life because its easier to cast a removal spell for 3 than 4.Originally Posted by Namida
EDIT:
Also, it might be worth looking at cards like Cruel Bargain and Infernal Contract as card advantage. Namely in builds playing Unlife. I played it a while back on Cockatrice as a 1 and 2 of and it sets you really far ahead.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
It's still paying life.
107.4f Phyrexian mana symbols are colored mana symbols: {W/P} is white, {U/P} is blue, {B/P} is black, {R/P} is red, and {G/P} is green. A Phyrexian mana symbol represents a cost that can be paid either with one mana of its color or by paying 2 life.
I really think this works better as a bug deck. or at least has a little better mid game.
Been thinking about how many sylvans to run cuz you only ever wanna see one really but you really wanna see that one..
Why the hell would a card with a more restrictive mana cast, and that can be Misdirected to your opponent, be better than Night's Whispers?
You've got it the other way around when it comes to playing Dark Confident, uncontrolled life loss is kind of a "problem" in a deck that hangs around at ~7 life.
@Sylvan Library
Eh, I'd just run 4 until you have a reason not to, the card is pretty fucking broken and I think it falls into that "Counterbalance" category of a card that's completely terrible in multiples but unbelievably awesome when you do resolve a single copy. I mean even just with Delver, it has a really significant impact.
@Removal
I prefer Dismember to Snuff Out in the MD, having more control over your life loss is more important than having a free spell fwiw.
I'm currently loving this deck. It plays the tempo style that i love with a cool, under the radar finisher. What i'm trying to do right now is to have a build that can take out the shadows after board and play a tempo style Delver type of deck. This is because some people are already aware of this deck and will play accordingly, saving their burn so they can burn you out and leaving the removal open for shadows. If after board we can "switch" to a non shadow build it will make people make bad decisions when playing against you. What are your opinions on this?
Thinking red might gives us help for this deck. Just a untested list that looks alright on paper, don't know how it plays out.
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Death's Shadow
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Flame Rift
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Flusterstorm
2 Forked Bolt
2 Ponder
2 Price of Progress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
Last edited by TraxDaMax; 09-27-2012 at 12:49 AM.
Flame Rift doesn't seem bad at first glance but as reach its way better in Burn. If you draw it when you want reach its not going to do what you want it to do.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
At worst it could be used as fodder for Nivmagus Elemental was my assumption.
Don't know how good it is, but it seemed pretty sweet with Death's Shadow.
At 12 life we could play Death's Shadow, being 1/1 and next turn cast Flame Rift giving it +4/+4 and doing 4 dmg to the opponent. That's 8 damage with one spell.
Same thing with Price of Progress. I would stick 2 side for match ups with lots of non basics and you'd be doing the same type of thing but then instant speed. Need to test it still though.
edit: After goldfishing it does feel a little awkward still.
Is anyone still tinkering around with this deck? I think it seems great fun. Just ordered the cards I was missing to play it. I'm surprised no one has mentioned Skeletal Scrying. It seems tailor made for this deck as long as you're not overly reliant on your GY. I'm not playing scm so the only card I don't want out of my GY is my 2x Cabal Therapy which shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Here's the list I'm going to try out:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Death's Shadow
3x Dark Confidant
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
1x Flusterstorm
1x Spell Pierce
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
3x Gitaxian Probe
2x Thoughtseize
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Skeletal Scrying
2x Dismember
2x Snuff Out
4x Wasteland
4x Underground Sea
2x Watery Grave
2x Island
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
As much as I love Skeletal Scrying, I don't see it being anything major in a tempo deck. I mean if you could cast if for x=3 you would have 4 lands in play and you should have won by then.
I see what you mean, though I still intend to try it out with 2 of 'em :)
It's easy to lose sight of how little mana a deck like this needs to work off of :)
I play it on a regular basis, I think you'll find cards like Night's Whispers and Skeletal Scrying not as good as you'd think, compared to Dismember, Gitaxian Probe and to a lesser extent Snuff Out the deck really wants cards that can reduce its life total but don't have to reduce its life total once its low. Thought Seize aside, I find what makes Dismember better than Snuff Out, Gitaxian Probe worthwhile and Watery Grave better than Underground Sea is that they all give you controllable life loss.
Dark Confident is not ok in this deck, you will either not be able to reduce your life total when you turn over lands or you will kill yourself when you can't control the cards you turn over. There's a reason Gerry T plays Snapcaster instead of Dark Confident in his deck, and it's because Snapcaster does a much better job of controlling your life loss thru' recurring the Thought Seize, Gitaxian Probe or Snuff Out etc.
With Gitaxian Probe in the deck, I think it's kind of a shame not to play Tombstalker
I recently a very interesting Monoblack variant of this deck.
The main twist was that it ran tons of mana accelerants - Dark Ritual, Chrome Mox AND Mox Diamond - and 4 copies each of Infernal Contract and Cruel Bargain to compensate for that. The amount of of card advantage and mana it could churn out was rather impressive.
The sad thing about it was that the rest of deck was rather poorly constructed - tons of 1 mana discard and Probe, but no Cabal Therapy, the inclusion of Doomsday with 2 Death's Shadow as only wincon and folding in general to Chalice for 1.
With alternate wincons like Tombstalker or even Phyrexian Obliterator (the deck should easily be able to afford it) and more fine-tuning, it might actually become pretty solid - the core engine of the deck looked very strong.
This sunday someone got 1st out of 49 at our Legacy scene.
1. Bart Gielen
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Dark Confidant
4 Death's Shadow
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thoughtseize
2 Snuff Out
2 Ponder
2 Hymn to tourach
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Dismember
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Underground Sea
2 Watery Grave
3 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Darkslick Shores
Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Darkblast
1 Duress
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Dread of Night
3 Perish
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
I was wondering if you guys have seen my list in the evagreen forum? I got the idea from seeing Gerry Thompson's decklist. I didn't post it in here because there is no blue init, but I think we have the same goal in mind. I used more dscard instead of blue because I was wanted the chance to take out threats turn one and two with discard instead of waiting for them to be cast. this also alows me to use green which really resembles the old evegreen build. It does run death's shadow. I you want check it out in the evagreen forum. There has been intense debate over it. If you want I can post the list, but I won't do some thing like that until it is okay'd.
so this is the list i am playing as of now..its really good against miracles(really good)
3 deaths shadow
4 delver
3 deathrite shaman
2 snapcaster
1 scavenging ooze
13
3 sylvan library
1 lilliana
4
3 abrupy decay
3 thoughtsieze
1 inquisition
4 brainstorm
1 ponder
2 hymn
2 dismember
1 snuffout
2 spellpeirce
4 daze
1 life from the loam
24
2 underground sea
2 bayou
2 trop
1 watery grave
1 polluted delta
4 misty
3 verd cata.
4 wasteland
19
1 flusterstorm
2 surgical
1 creeping tarpit
4 force of will
2 e.e.
3 jace beleren
1 thoughtsieze
15
low land count and shaman make dazeing less probematic than it would be without( we have a higher curve than rug delver)
because of shaman and ooze library drawing three isn't as dangerous as it could be ..selective filtering and drawing all at the same cost as bob but harder to deal with sounds awesome ..it is...well hurricanes here and i dont wanna lose this so i'm just gunna post and let you guys ask questions if you have em..
Gerry Thompson had a really interesting U/B tempo deck in his latest SCG article. It adds Nivmagus Elemental to the U/B Death's Shadow shell. Since it's a premium article, I won't repost the decklist here, but it's worth looking at if you have an SCG Premium membership:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...Decklists.html
I think the free spells (Gitaxian Probe, Snuff Out) complement Nivmagus Elemental very well, since we often want to play many spells at once for the Nivmagus + Flusterstorm combo.
Josh Cho just won 2-0 against BUG Delver with the deck in a video feature match at SCG Legacy Open Baltimore, so the decklist might be published later on if it gets into TOP8.
Edit:
Deck tech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdHD2rztxEI
Edit again:
Decklist: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=51247
Last edited by SirTylerGalt; 12-03-2012 at 11:25 AM.
Josh wrote an article about his deck and his run at SCG Legacy
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...us-Primer.html
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote