Oops, All Spells! (Formerly The Rogue Hermit)

[mistercakes]

So lets discuss , what is the best win combo in current meta :)

We got:

Angel --> Lab Man + Azami

Cerberus --> Lab Man + Wraith

Mimeoblast --> walking ballista/triskelion + lord of extinction

Goblin Dark-Dwellers --> Haunting Misery

What do you think :) ?

just talk about merits of each.

pros
angel -> gets through chalice, gets through double removal.
cerberus -> 6/5 unblockable (sorta), wraith adds to better maindeck as a cycle effect
mimeoplasm -> all are black/green, which might enable some sb stuff. if ballista is in hand when milling deck, you can play it to generate a zombie.
dark dwellers -> not sure why anyone would play this

cons
angel -> clunky outside of combo
cerberus -> loses to chalice on 1, # of street wraiths in deck determines how many removal spells you can play through
mimeoplasm -> loses to leyline of sanctity

feel free to add to it.

for a list with pact and chancellor check hareruya, i think there's one over there.

[FFreak]

So we can say:

Best plan is play Garna (dominaria) so we dont loose chalice 1 .

But we loose the PLAN B beater ^^

[Darklingske]

So we can say:

Best plan is play Garna (dominaria) so we dont loose chalice 1 .

But we loose the PLAN B beater ^^

Can you explain why you would play Garna in the list?

[mistercakes]

garna still loses to chalice @1. the chalice @1 stops casting wild cantor, which is how you produce the blue mana for casting laboratory maniac.

[TTX]

Can you explain why you would play Garna in the list?

Unlike Cerberus, Garna doesn't not have an obligatory Cabal Therapy sacrifice required.

garna still loses to chalice @1. the chalice @1 stops casting wild cantor, which is how you produce the blue mana for casting laboratory maniac.

This is solved by pairing Garna with Ingot Chewer. Chewer is returned to hand and then eats the Chalice, clearing the path for Cantor.

[FFreak]

nice idea :) It makes the deck a little bit more consistent ^^

[mistercakes]

I guess. I'd prefer not to run ingot chewers maindeck as it adds another card to an already pretty tight list.

[caprino]

I don't see list cerberus pact of negation and chancellor main deck

[mistercakes]

http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD28091S/

you can just swap out the win condition:

4 Balustrade Spy
1 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Lord of Extinction
4 Narcomoeba
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 The Mimeoplasm
2 Tinder Wall
1 Triskelion
4 Undercity Informer
2 Wild Cantor
28 Creatures
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Pact of Negation
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Summoning Trap
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal

-1 cantor -1 summoning trap, -1 triskelion, -1 lord, -1 mimeoplasm, -1 tinder wall

+1 BR guy (your choice), +1 lab man, +1 street wraith, +3 chancellor

you can choose to cut both tinder walls as well for a 2nd street wraith, that way you can beat a bolt.

[caprino]

http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD28091S/

you can just swap out the win condition:

4 Balustrade Spy
1 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Lord of Extinction
4 Narcomoeba
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 The Mimeoplasm
2 Tinder Wall
1 Triskelion
4 Undercity Informer
2 Wild Cantor
28 Creatures
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Pact of Negation
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Summoning Trap
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal

-1 cantor -1 summoning trap, -1 triskelion, -1 lord, -1 mimeoplasm, -1 tinder wall

+1 BR guy (your choice), +1 lab man, +1 street wraith, +3 chancellor

you can choose to cut both tinder walls as well for a 2nd street wraith, that way you can beat a bolt.

Thanks. 1br guy sorry I did not understand

This list is competitive?

I think 4 pact and 4 chancellor is good vs blu deck.


My idea of the side is as follows

4 lions eye
3 Belcher
3 empty the w
3 rite of flame
2 tinder

Empty is an alternative win coin a Belcher. What do you think?

[FFreak]

normaly instead of empty u just play spoil of the vault :P

[mistercakes]

You can try it.

For empty you're lacking rite of flame, seething song, desperate ritual, burning wish, land grant. Might be hard to get empty for more than 3 or 4 storm.

There's a lot of lists in this thread with a Belcher sb. Just take the time to read through the whole thing.

The br guy is bc there's the Underworld Cerberus and there's a new guy from dominaria.

[caprino]

You can try it.

For empty you're lacking rite of flame, seething song, desperate ritual, burning wish, land grant. Might be hard to get empty for more than 3 or 4 storm.

There's a lot of lists in this thread with a Belcher sb. Just take the time to read through the whole thing.

The br guy is bc there's the Underworld Cerberus and there's a new guy from dominaria.

Which side you advise me?

4 Belcher
4 led
And?

[mistercakes]

read the thread. it's all in there.

[caprino]

read the thread. it's all in there.

Ok thanks

[caprino]

Today double 4 1 list pact and chancellor main deck

W first league vs elf, death and taxes, miracle, 4c... Lose vs sneak and show

W second league vs ant, reanimator br, eldrazi, threshold.... Lose vs tes

[colzdude]

Garna is the best of all worlds with the only downside you cant cast it as a 6/6 unblockable.
Smaller package than both angel and cerberus (can ditch therapy)
With ingot chewer the package is the same size as cerberus with the upside of playing around chalice

With the flex spots of therapy removed, we can play better protection (pact/chancellor/summoning trap)

Commenting on the old bayou plan, I think most people moved away from it because it required another "must have" piece to the combo, hurting consistency. Now not only do you need mana and a wincon, but you need mana, a wincon and land tutor. I havent done the math, and I do realize the bayou plan shores up some weaknesses of the low black source count, but I am sure there is a pretty objective answer to this situation. Reanimate allows us to much more easily recover from failed combos, gives us a "t1 discard, t2 reanimate", and can combo with entomb as a 2 mana win combo. It isn't good vs chalice on 1 obviously. Maybe due to the black mana requirements, it fits with bayou lists?

That old Hareyuya list with the gambit is really cool. I assume you side it in vs decks with low creature counts, or large creatures, which is going to be centered around control and miracles. I think we handedly beat non delver aggro decks already, so there isnt much need for sb tech there.

(edit looks like people here have considered reanimate as well and found it to be bad upon searching through the thread)

[caprino]

Garna is the best of all worlds with the only downside you cant cast it as a 6/6 unblockable.
Smaller package than both angel and cerberus (can ditch therapy)
With ingot chewer the package is the same size as cerberus with the upside of playing around chalice

With the flex spots of therapy removed, we can play better protection (pact/chancellor/summoning trap)

Commenting on the old bayou plan, I think most people moved away from it because it required another "must have" piece to the combo, hurting consistency. Now not only do you need mana and a wincon, but you need mana, a wincon and land tutor. I havent done the math, and I do realize the bayou plan shores up some weaknesses of the low black source count, but I am sure there is a pretty objective answer to this situation. Reanimate allows us to much more easily recover from failed combos, gives us a "t1 discard, t2 reanimate", and can combo with entomb as a 2 mana win combo. It isn't good vs chalice on 1 obviously. Maybe due to the black mana requirements, it fits with bayou lists?

That old Hareyuya list with the gambit is really cool. I assume you side it in vs decks with low creature counts, or large creatures, which is going to be centered around control and miracles. I think we handedly beat non delver aggro decks already, so there isnt much need for sb tech there.

(edit looks like people here have considered reanimate as well and found it to be bad upon searching through the thread)

Garna is interesting.

What do you cut for Garna? Cerberus and all cabal therapy and bridge?

[mistercakes]

You need therapy and bridge in case you have combo cards in hand (therapy for dread return, therapy for garna, bridge in case you draw narcomoeba.)

I think you should goldfish the deck on cockatrice, you'll understand the card choices more.

[caprino]

You need therapy and bridge in case you have combo cards in hand (therapy for dread return, therapy for garna, bridge in case you draw narcomoeba.)

I think you should goldfish the deck on cockatrice, you'll understand the card choices more.

Garna playing the rest of the deck is same?
I wanted to ask this

Reading the articles above say that therapy is not indispensable