I personally think that it is the way to go if you play high tide. I'm a proponent of pyromancer ascension, which in my opinion is one of the best way to fight Counterbalance in the legacy card pool. I'm no high tide expert but I played this deck a long time ago.Originally Posted by Chatto
I also think that the intuition/Past in flames package is very cluncky and shouldn't be in there. R for ascension, reb, and 1 bolt maybe in the sideboard.
Ascension is only very good versus Miracle though but it isn't a sideboard card in my opinion (I may be wrong about this) because it isn't only an answer to CB but also a gameplan on its own. Here is what I tried post dig ban :
2 [R] Volcanic Island
4 [KTK] Polluted Delta
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
8 [UNH] Island
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [ZEN] Pyromancer Ascension
1 [TE] Meditate
3 [JU] Cunning Wish
3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
3 [US] Turnabout
4 [] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [FE] High Tide
4 [8E] Merchant Scroll
4 [M12] Ponder
4 [] Preordain
4 [US] Time Spiral
SB: 1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [PLC] Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 [5E] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [M11] Lightning Bolt
SB: 1 [10E] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 [] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [SC] Brain Freeze
SB: 1 [] Blue Sun's Zenith
SB: 4 [9E] Defense Grid
SB: 1 [TE] Meditate
SB: 1 [US] Turnabout
SB: 1 [CMD] Flusterstorm
It is not polished at all. Volcanic island is a very bad card and we can't play mountain. That was my main concern, hence the 4 defense grid for tempo.
Going 1 volc 2 ascension in the sideboard is a plan I don't like (as already said), going up to 19 lands md (1 more island) looks better (but what to cut ? I love the singleton Meditate, especially with ascension).
Well, anyway, I dropped the idea, but I'm following it closely.
Anybody else not really feeling Cunning Wish anymore? It's so clunky and the wish board takes up so many slots. I'm always bummed out when I have wish in my opening draw.
I'm with you, I don't like wish at all. Sure it's handy to have a wish board but I often feel that it is far to slow.
I'll be on the other side of the fence. I really like Wish.
IMO have cards like BSZ or Brainfreeze in my hand feel even more clunky because they have less utility. I'm stating the obvious when a Wish can turn into either one of those spells plus a counter, a bounce spell, graveyard hate, etc. All those thing's I think are necessary so that you can dodge Surgical post board, deal with Chalice on 1 in game 1, force Dredge to win before you have 3 lands, have extra counters available post Time Spiral vs permission heavy decks. I understand the desire to lean the deck out, I honestly do. The challenge is navigating to turn 4 (typically) and being in a positive combo situation and maximizing the odds post Time Spiral. I think the flexibility of Wish does this.
I think the Wish board can be as leaner than some of the ones you see, ie 6-8 cards. It just depends how much you want to invest in Wish. Regardless of how much or little the investment is still worth it.
My 2 cents. Still love all versions of this deck.
On the topic of Cunning Wish, my builds that included Dig Through Time went down to 0 or 1 copy of Cunning Wish. The feeling of freeing up even a few sideboard slots is a good feeling - iGrok had some awesome builds with a transformational Show & Tell sideboard this past year!
If I were to drop down from 3 Cunning Wishes I would put in more copies of cantrips because I am trying out a main-deck Intuition and Capsize (took the place of two Preordains). What would you add if you took out the wishes? What cards do you want to put in the wishboard spots?
Last edited by Zazorf; 01-09-2016 at 03:49 PM.
My honest take on Cunning Wish is also coming from a Spring Tide and Solidarity perspective, so please bear that in mind. Even if you want to cut Cunning Wish completely (and I'm using the bare minimum here), you would have to justify going from:
Maindeck
2 Cunning Wish
3 58th, 59th, and 60th card (Wipe Away, Preordain, Top, Flusterstorm...)
Sideboard
1 Brain Freeze
1 Zenith
1 Wipe Away
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
to this:
Maindeck
1 Brain Freeze
1 Zenith/Brain Freeze
1 Wipe Away (Capsize, as your only bounce spell game one, won't be good enough)
2 59th, and 60th card - although at least one should be the Meditate or Turnabout that was originally in the sideboard
Sideboard
5 new cards
I can't personally justify that trade IMHO. You become so much more vulnerable to discard and Extirpate effects (which was bad enough years ago and is far worse now), you have to run two bad choices maindeck (I don't see the luster of either kill-con maindeck personally when you have so much tutor power and Spiral), you have far less removal game one in a format loaded with Counterbalances, Chalices, and Thalias, and you have to hope that you draw the right card between Meditate and Turnabout when you need to win in a pinch or are in the middle of comboing instead of having the tutor effect to fall back on.
There is no rule that says you have to run 10 Wish targets either. IMHO, you only have to run four-seven cards really (and we pretty much all have a counter in that sideboard somewhere so there's that).
Last edited by TheRock; 01-14-2016 at 09:39 AM.
WHAT? No, just no.
So I've been playing High Tide for a bit now, and I'm struggling to fine tune my list. I just cannot make up my mind.
Here is my list
Lands
12x Island
6x Fetches
Can-trips
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x preordain
2x sensei's divining top
Tutors
4x Merchant Scroll
3x Cunning Wish
Mana engines
3x Candelabra of tawnos
2x Turnabout
4x Timespiral
4x High Tide
Protection
4x Force of will
2x Flusterstorm
1x Swan Song
I'm missing a final card to put in the list. I've usually put in a third Turnabout and that has been working well, But I'm not sure if an eight counter or another Top would be better suited here. I'm not keen on putting a BSZ for the 60th, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
-1 preordain
+2 Sensei's Divining Top?
Then you can have the counterbalance option in the sideboard. It's what feline does I believe, it seems pretty nice.
If you don't like that option, I kind of like +1 intuition in the mainboard, turn 2 merchant scroll, turn three intuition for missing high tide/time spiral, turn 4 combo can be nice.
Also you can't go wrong with +1 wipe away mainboard, especially if you have a lot of miracles in your meta :)
Look up Feline Longmore. She's an absolute expert on this deck. Also it's awesome to watch her play. She's a whirlwind. I've never seen anyone play at that pace when going off.
Personally, in order to use Counterbalance you really only need 3 Tops, and Top is still a great card to side in believe it or not.
I think the ideal 60th card for that list is Meditate. I still use that card to go off more often that most players want to give it credit for, and there are plenty of games where you need to find Cunning Wish or a significant amount of countermagic in order to win and 12-15 filters just won't be enough to find three or four cards.
You may truly need Merchant Scroll to find draw power, and you may not be able to even afford that.
WHAT? No, just no.
I actually don't have a meditate on hand, I honestly forgot about that card. I need to try it sometime. The only reason I'm hesitant on more than 2 tops is because I do not want to see double, but that could be a moot reason.
Since I've asked the question, I've tried an eighth counter, a BSZ in the main, and an eight counter with a BSZ ( took away one preordain ). Although my testing has been very limited, I like the eighth counter so far. I haven't felt much of a difference with a BSZ in the main, hasn't really been a problem, but hasn't helped much either. Is the main reason people run this main is in case your wishes get extracted?
I think I'm gonna stick with an eighth counter, but remove and BSZ for another Top and see how that works out. If i like it, counterbalance could defiantly come in.
I also need to try an intuition main, God, there is just too many options.
Thanks for your input guys.
I think this deck does have many options all right! That's part of the fun (and the responsibility when trying to play it at a tournament) in that there are so many ways to look at the same problem because your card selection pool is so big, and there are lots of opportunities for surprise tech. One card I try currently run Misdirection in my sideboard because it essentially answers Eidolon by itself (and doesn't cost you mana after you Wish), Shardless doesn't consistently run Daze and/or FoW maindeck and I love getting hold of some of their cards, and I think it's a useful enough card in a counterwar. I don't know how consistent it is in getting hold of Miracles' Disenchants though.
I feel that BSZ is a good card when you are winning big or have lots of mana, and small to really small compared to Meditate when you are not, and Surgical Extraction (and discard + Cunning Wish more realistically) is not popular enough game one to merit running a card that just doesn't offer much utility like the driver said. I just see the merit in running a Meditate, Intuition, Top, extra counter, Time Walk-ish card...instead.
To be fair, as much as I swear by Meditate, I don't know if anyone needs one MD and one SB. Having a plan when Spiral gets Extracted is really great since it's going to happen, but maybe BSZ in the sideboard is enough or maybe having one Predict is enough extra help to reach the needed storm count.
WHAT? No, just no.
here there's a brand new card:
Pore Over the Pages
3UU
Sorcery
Draw three cards, untap up to two lands, then discard a card.
What do you think about it?
I curse t2 for not allowing this card to be an instant. Also, it seems pretty decent, good as dodging CB, but I'm not sure it's better than something Meditate. Still, not a bad card by an means.here there's a brand new card:
Pore Over the Pages
3UU
Sorcery
Draw three cards, untap up to two lands, then discard a card.
What do you think about it?
Started building this deck so any tips how to deal with meta containing:
1-2 D&T, 1-2 RUG Delver, 1 Reanimator, 1 Storm, 1 Eldrazi, 1-2 Burn, 1-2 Dredge and some other decks, but those are the usual suspects.
"Everything is better topless"
I'd put a few grafdigger's cage in my sideboard for your metagame with both reanimator and dredge. Vs burn just try to be faster... a blue blast can come in handy as an answer to eidolon/pyrostatic pillar/red elemental blast. Also try not to keep a hand without either high tide or time spiral. You will often die with cards in hand in this matchup. One way to make sure you will "allways" go off turn 4 is to play 1 intution main. Turn1 cantrip for looking at 3-4 cards out of 9/53 hits in the deck+3 drawsteps gives a high probability to find the missing piece, merchant scroll or intuition. Vs DnT a hurkyll's recall to deal with canonist and vial@2 + snap for thalia is usually enough. I recommend having a snap both to scroll and to wish for. Remember that thalia/thalia horse can be answered with a second high tide. Teferi's realm could also work. It's slower but answers Mother of Runes and multiple hatebears in just one card. The best thing you can do vs RUG delver is to play Defense grid and flusterstorm.
Thing in the Ice
Blocks all Hatebears until you are ready to bounce them. Hell, probably blocks Goyf if you never counter another creature. Forces them to keep in removal, not only to get through, but you have e 3 turn clock if they don't. And even if they keep Plow, which is suspect, if you can flip him in response wipes their board and gains a bunch of life. Even deals with all non-Iona reanimate or Show targets. All for 1U, and doing what your deck does naturally. I like it.
~ Team Unicorn Motto
Hey guys, not super active on here anymore but here's some recent video coverage of a match where I'm back on High Tide. It's not my deck of choice for large events anymore but it's still the most fun deck to play at locals. Not much tech, playing Candleless High Tide, practically the same list I made day 2 with in the Dig Through Time era except -3 Dig main and one side, went up to 3 meditates and 4 Wishes main and added Rebuild to the side due to Aggro Loam/Eldrazi chalice decks. The commentators don't particularly understand High Tide but if you want to watch it just for the technical play aspects I think its worth viewing. I have a sweet play where I Wish, maintain priority, Flusterstorm, maintain priority, Flusterstorm one copy on each flusterstorm and the extra on the original Flusterstorm, decline to pay just to add Storm count and Brain Freeze him since he was getting bored. The commentators also allude to my "finest hour" last year, where I killed someone after they Slaughter Games'd all my High Tides and I just went off manually netting 1-2 mana per Turnabout and Time Spiral, which has kind of become a local myth of sorts. Hope you guys dig it!
https://youtu.be/vyd3Cm0XGMY?t=7621
I played high tide for years ... the banishment of DTT did the deck imbalance, because with meditation buying 4 cards you may have the misfortune to only buy lands and counters, and unfortunately it happens a lot, and also combo, and spiral team only buy lands and counters, but that's part ...
I have not found any effective search engine as DTT ...
Hi guys, I´m a fan and supporter of High Tide deck for a long time and I´d like to share my newest experience. Maybe this will read somebody in a few days, maybe in a few months, but it can be helpful...I hope.
Anyway, I was attending quite a big event in Prague (Prague Eternal, 12.3.2016) with 104 players, many of them from Germany and Polland. I got 5:2 (20th place) and I was just one win from top8.
My deck was the following one:
1 Pact of Negation
4 Brainstorm
4 High Tide
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Swan Song
4 Merchant Scroll
3 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
3 Turnabout
4 Force of Will
4 Time Spiral
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
3 Flooded Strand
12 Island
3 Polluted Delta
SB: 1 Pact of Negation
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Brain Freeze
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Snap
SB: 1 Blue Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Meditate
SB: 1 Teferi's Realm
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Turnabout
SB: 2 Sphinx of the Final Word
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
My build includes some „classics“ and it is a build without Candelabras. They would have been nice, but I didn´t need them and it worked well without them. Just don't be afraid of playing CandelLess versions. The key card was Sensei's Diving Top, which is great to set up the combo pieces but mainly it is great after Time Spiral resolves, because it helps you to see more cards. Swan Songs could be Flusterstorms, sure, but they can counter Eidolon, Counterbalance or Sneak Attack, which is useful as well.
To the sideboard. Next to the obvious cards (Snap, Echoing Truth, Meditate, Brain Freeze, Blue Sun's Zenith, Wipe Away, Hurkyl's Recall...) I added Sphinx of the Final Word and Teferi's Realm. Sphinxs are there just for Miracles, which are quite a bad matchup especially with Pyroblasts. But resolved Sphinx in turn 4/5 means that opponent have actually no answer to it and you can do your combo business uninterupted or just swing the opponent in couple turns. It usually means a win. Mentor makes the Miracles quite a fast deck, but against High Tide they often play a slow control strategy. A Sphinx can be sided in even for a Show and Tell matchup, because you can put into play alongside his/her Emrakul or Griselbrand and try to win on your following turn. Sure, it is not the typical way how to beat Show and Tell, but it is a way. Teferi's Realm showed itself as a very powerful card, especially against Death and Taxis, Eldrazi, Lands, because it can help you to get rid of the taxing permanents at once (for DnT you usualy name creatures and for other matchups the artifacts).
Matches:
1) Death and Taxis (0:2)
First game I lost to my misplay, because I didn't take my Force of Will from Ponder and was not able to counter Thalia, which caused me a big trouble due to my lack of bounce spells in MB. Second game, he drew a very good hand and I was not able to find Teferi's Realm or Echoing Truth to deal with his multiple threads.
2) Goblins (2:0)
Super fun match. Goblins can be very fast, but had not many interactions. The second could be better for him because of his white splash, but he never made it to the sideboard cards.
3) Death and Taxis (2:1)
Definitely a Teferi's Realm game. First game I had a very good hand and after countering his hardcasted Thalia I had nothing in my way to combo off. Second game I lost to multiple Vryns and Thalias. Third game I found Teferi's Realm when he was like Vryn, Thalia, 2 Mothers and Flickerwisp and was easy from that spot to win in two turns.
4) Boros Burn (2:1)
Very fast and cruel deck, but my opponent didn't know what he is playing against in the first game and died out of nowhere. Second game, I fizzled during my combo (actually it was the only time I had) and he killed me in return. Third game he got mana screw and I just won.
5) Elves (0:2)
Mainboard Gadock Teeg suprised me and I have a slow answer to it in the first game. Second game, I was ready but he was too fast and with Cabal Therapies. This happens, I should have won the first game, playing more carefuly.
6) HexDepths (2:0)
Much faster than ordinary Lands, but it relies to much on Crop Rotation, so a few good counterspell were enough. In the secong game I resolved Time Spiral once and found out that I am not sure about going on, so I took a bounce spell, passed turn and when he tried to kill me with his Dark Depths token I bounced it and won in the next two turns, because I had a quite a good hand from the previous Time Spiral.
7) Lands (2:0)
Honestly, this is a good matchup. Very slow deck with little disruption pre-board and after that it had few Thorns of Ametyst, Chalice of the Void and Choke. If you counter carefuly and you have Hurkyl's Recall or Teferi's Realm as I had, you are fine. We never made it to the turn five.
Notes expost:
- High Tide can be a comeptitive deck if you train with it and you carefully think of you sideboard
- everytime I was playing I had a felling I can play against my opponent, that I have the answers
- sure, I had no matches against Delver, Miracles or Eldrazi, but prior this event I had tested pretty much and I was ready for them (Delver is probably the worst matchup ever due to its fast clock, discard and counterspells)
- I am considering MD bounce spell, but it is mainly because of the Elves match, generally it was not need (Cunning Wish is enough), still it is a serious consideration
- everytime you start your combo, you need to know exactly what you are up to (what kind of answers your opponent can have pre- and post-Time Spiral)
It would be all from my side. I know I was little bit lucky in my matchups, but still a good preparaton and a courage to use a deck which infavourable in current meta can give you some nice MtG moments and a serious chance to get you to top8.
If you had any questions about my card selection, just ask me.
LONG LIVE HIGH TIDE :-)
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