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Thread: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

  1. #1161

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by zitical View Post
    Intuition is mostly there as a tutor for timespiral.
    I've used it to get a land and a scroll, I usually get spiral amply

  2. #1162

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Played a league on MTGO and went 4-1 (with 4x2-0 and 1x 0-2). Deck felt awesome with TiTi in the board. I cut 1 wipe away 1 snap and 2 teferi's realm for them (list is on previous page). The default sideboarding vs basicly anything has been -1 high tide -1 intuition (surgical extraction etc) -3 candelabra (games have not been about goldfishing and candelabra are the worst cards in the deck, also people have had null rod, needle, ancient grudges stranded) for +1 meditate (scroll replacement for intuition) +4 thing in the ice. I REALLY struggled against grixis delver with previous lists. Titi changes the dynamic a lot and I can just sculpt my hand and not worry about going off so much.

  3. #1163
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackan View Post
    Played a league on MTGO and went 4-1 (with 4x2-0 and 1x 0-2). Deck felt awesome with TiTi in the board. I cut 1 wipe away 1 snap and 2 teferi's realm for them (list is on previous page). The default sideboarding vs basicly anything has been -1 high tide -1 intuition (surgical extraction etc) -3 candelabra (games have not been about goldfishing and candelabra are the worst cards in the deck, also people have had null rod, needle, ancient grudges stranded) for +1 meditate (scroll replacement for intuition) +4 thing in the ice. I REALLY struggled against grixis delver with previous lists. Titi changes the dynamic a lot and I can just sculpt my hand and not worry about going off so much.
    TiTi helps with so many matchups, grixis delver is much easier with it, eldrazi is much better with TiTi.

  4. #1164
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by zitical View Post
    Hello guys! I have been playing High Tide for about 2 years now, and at GP Prague i won a GPT with it.


    something something

    PAST IN FLAMES

    Something something
    Explain how past in flames speeds up the combo turn? I'm curious.

    Also tell me about your sideboarding plans. I have only played high tide a few times, so insights on the sideboarding plan would be great.
    Emptying the Warrens: So YOU don't have to!

  5. #1165
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by monovfox View Post
    Explain how past in flames speeds up the combo turn? I'm curious.

    Also tell me about your sideboarding plans. I have only played high tide a few times, so insights on the sideboarding plan would be great.
    Past in flames turn intuition into a super tutor that creates significant card advantage.

    Post time spiral the obviously goal is to cast more high tides and untap effect to generate more mana in order to cast more and more spells, rinse and repeat until brain freeze or BSZ. The challenge is as you cast ponder into high tide and merchant scroll into turnabout you are burning cards to facilitate the combo (you could think of it as card disadvantage). This is why we need engines like meditate or more time spirals to "refill".

    Whats insane about past in flames is as you use cantrips and scrolls to keep the combo going you will get to reuse all of those. So rather than "burning a ponder to find High Tide you get to do that and then recast both after you PiF. So all you need to prioritize is finding intuition so you can search for PiF and more high tides or more turnabouts (or whatever else). You also get to flash back the intuition so if you opponent is dumb enough to give you PiF off the first intuition then you get to flashback PiF twice and chain even more spells. If they don't you get another mana generator that you will get to use twice b/c of PiF. Casting PiF drives the storm count up really fast. This shortens winning games by a lot.

    You also can combo without Time Spiral since with Pif on the combo turn you can flashback all the cantrips and tutors you have been casting for the preceding turns (which is often a lot). So from one perspective PiF acts like another copy of Time Spiral since it can straight up combo with High Tide, thus increasing your density of business spells. Because you also get so much value from intuition now as well you can run more copies which, greatly increases the chances of having both Time Spiral and High Tide in hand for a traditional combo by turn four or lets you super tutor for a PiF kill.

    PiF + Intuition also creates a more deterministic path to victory in a lot of corner situations post Time Spiral where you would otherwise need to have a specific MD construction or get super lucky or both (because the draw 7 is awkward).

  6. #1166

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I have a question to those who play with TiTi in the sideboard. When do you NOT sideboard it in and what do you usually cut for it? So far I have allways been happy about thing in the ice except for when I play agains combo (and even then it's pretty nice, especially if they have a lot of discard).

    In general I most often remove the MD intuition for a Meditate and put 1 high tide in the sideboard as a way to dodge Surgical extraction. Unless I know they don't have this type of effect or if I just want to set up a fast kill this has been my go-to strategy for years. Then if I need more space it's often between flusterstorm and candelabra of tawnos. Basicly I allways remove the candelabras unless I play against a chalice deck where flusterstorm is usually pretty bad. Candelabra is a card that does nothing on it's own, makes null rod/needle/ancient grudge etc a problem, and don't trigger TiTi. I could be very wrong about this so I am curious to see which cards you usually cut! I have played similar "non-combo"-cards like mystic remora, counterbalance and teferi's realm and this sideboarding of cards has allways been a tough task for me.

    I think that with TiTi you no longer have to sideboard any additional bounce to combat hatebears. This is why I felt confident in cutting some additional bounce to make room for them.

    It's hard to say something for certain but in general, which cards do you most often side out for these type of non-combo cards?

  7. #1167

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    @The driver, do you run candles when you run PiF?

  8. #1168
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_D View Post
    @The driver, do you run candles when you run PiF?
    I don't since I want to have a maximum number of spells for PiF. This includes running 3 turnabout main to work with Intuition (plus the intuitions themselves) so there actually isn't much space for them anyways. Even if there was I wouldn't run them. I also win the majority of the time with Brain Freeze so spell count is important in my eyes. I'm trying to work in Gitaxian Probes at the moment.

  9. #1169

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I have now played 10 leagues with High tide. 1X 5-0, 2X 4-1, 4X 3-2, 3X with 2-3 or worse.
    The deck is quite good, actually. Some of my losses have been really close too. I struggle a lot vs miracles... I can sometimes steal a game1 here and there but overall I haven't won a match against them. I have a legacy challenge this weekend on modo and if I can solve the miracles matchup by then I'll play high tide!
    I prefer not to splash so I'm looking into solving this using only blue or colorless cards... (unless they ban top before saturday:=).
    What do you guys suggest?

    1) gigadrowse as a wish-target. sidesteps cb compared to turnabout and can also tap tops.
    2) Sphinx of the last word. Should be really awesome if it ever hits play. I doubt it though... 7 mana is a lot.
    3) Teferi, mage of zhalfir. Can get pyroblasted and don't help vs cb/top.
    4) Vendilion clique (or basicly any creature) to just aggro/disrupt them before they can set up the soft-lock.
    5) Swan song over flusterstorm main. I thought about this but I think a 2/2 is a significant clock in most matchups, also super-tilting against cabal therapy.
    6) Defense grid. Very good if you have a fast kill and they don't have cb or any hate-bear. Seems way to narrow in today's legacy. Even the delver-decks have discard so it's not really great against tempo anymore.
    7) Splash in the sideboard? I'm thinking one tropical island and 3 krosan grip +2 mistcutter hydra. or red for blast and pyromancer ascension like some people mentioned before. what are the black and white options? Maybe mentor? I hope there's something else besides splashing...
    8) more wipe away?
    9) what else?

    SORCERIES (16)
    4 Preordain
    4 Ponder
    4 Merchant Scroll
    4 Time Spiral
    INSTANTS (23)
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Flusterstorm
    4 High Tide
    3 Cunning Wish
    1 Intuition
    3 Turnabout
    4 Force of Will
    ARTIFACTS (3)
    3 Candelabra of Tawnos
    LANDS (18)
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Polluted Delta
    12 Island
    SIDEBOARD (15)
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Meditate
    1 Pact of Negation
    1 Snap
    1 Wipe Away
    4 Thing in the Ice
    1 Hurkyl’s Recall
    1 Blue Sun’s Zenith
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Swan Song
    1 Turnabout
    1 Grafdigger’s Cage

    current sb vs miracles;
    -1 high tide
    -1 candelabra of tawnos
    -1 intuition
    +1 wipe away
    +1 swan song
    +1 meditate

    I tried TiTi but I think it's not good enough in this matchup. Candelabras are meh but without a long-term plan against CB I just have to try and be fast. Going off t3 with fow+flusterstorm is "ideal".

    I have been really happy with my list overall, it's just miracles that is a big issue.

  10. #1170
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackan View Post
    I have been really happy with my list overall, it's just miracles that is a big issue.
    I'm afraid there is no "miracle" cure (Pun intended).

    I don't play Spiral Tide as I'm a Solidarity player.
    Anyway, my wins against Miracle are bound to a balanced mix of the following (side included):
    - Repeal (this is easier for Solidarity here because I usually play 4 Repeal MD)
    - Wipe Away (not always the best because a competent Miracle player will usually let a 3 CMC spell on top with CB in play)
    - Spell Snare (between 2 or 3 in the side)
    - Snapcaster Mage (yeah I know, Solidarity again...)
    - 3 or 4 Brain Freeze in your deck (Storm does not care about CB)

    Thus for Spring Tide, I guess the best way will always be the obvious one ->The old (very old) multiple Brain Freeze route.

  11. #1171

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    I'm thinking about dusting off High Tide. It's been a few years. Is there a consensus stock list nowadays? (I already have my 4x Candles for 12 Post, so that's not an issue.)


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  12. #1172

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube View Post
    I'm thinking about dusting off High Tide. It's been a few years. Is there a consensus stock list nowadays? (I already have my 4x Candles for 12 Post, so that's not an issue.)


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    The stock 55-56 cards is

    18 land including 6 fetchlands
    4 high tide
    4 time spiral
    4 merchant scroll
    4 brainstorm
    4 ponder
    3-4 preordain
    3-4 candelabra of tawnos
    1-2 turnabout
    3 cunning wish
    4 force of will
    3 flusterstorm

    the leftover spots are flex depending on your preferences, most of the flex revolves around not having candelabras; adding another turnabout (to 3 main), going up to 4 preordain, and 1-2 pore over the pages/meditate. there is also piledrivers idea of splashing red for past in flames a page or two back.

    with candelabras, you can run either a 4/1 split to candelabra:turnabout, or a 3/2 split; add 2-4 sensei's divining top; and finish off with a singleton maindeck blue sun's zenith, or intuition, or neither.

    The stock sideboard includes minimum

    1 blue sun's zenith
    1 brain freeze
    1 turnabout
    1 pact of negation
    1 wipe away

    the other 10 can include from

    1 capsize (great when playing with both sensei's diving tops and candelabras, basically allows you to go infinite mana + draw your entire deck)
    1 intuition
    1 snap
    1 additional wipe away
    1 surgical extraction
    additional counterspells, grafdiffer's cage, defense grid, counterbalance, etc

    the one true sideboarding rule is every game 2 and 3 you swap out 1 high tide for (usually) 1 blue sun's zenith, in case of surgical extraction/extirpate

  13. #1173

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube View Post
    I'm thinking about dusting off High Tide. It's been a few years. Is there a consensus stock list nowadays? (I already have my 4x Candles for 12 Post, so that's not an issue.)


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    With how prevalent miracles is, this isn't the best time to be running tide. But I believe with some experience, practice and deck building that it could potentially be an ok match up. Just seems to require a lot if you can stop counterbalance from hitting the board. In my experience it's a poor match up.

  14. #1174

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by mykatdied View Post
    With how prevalent miracles is, this isn't the best time to be running tide. But I believe with some experience, practice and deck building that it could potentially be an ok match up. Just seems to require a lot if you can stop counterbalance from hitting the board. In my experience it's a poor match up.
    Yeah, I suppose that would be a poor matchup. I mostly thought I could take some people by surprise, since they'd assume I was on 12 Post. My local meta usually has a lot of Miracles, Delver, and D&T. How are the other matchups for Tide?


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  15. #1175

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Hohosaikou View Post
    The stock 55-56 cards is

    18 land including 6 fetchlands
    4 high tide
    4 time spiral
    4 merchant scroll
    4 brainstorm
    4 ponder
    3-4 preordain
    3-4 candelabra of tawnos
    1-2 turnabout
    3 cunning wish
    4 force of will
    3 flusterstorm

    the leftover spots are flex depending on your preferences, most of the flex revolves around not having candelabras; adding another turnabout (to 3 main), going up to 4 preordain, and 1-2 pore over the pages/meditate. there is also piledrivers idea of splashing red for past in flames a page or two back.

    with candelabras, you can run either a 4/1 split to candelabra:turnabout, or a 3/2 split; add 2-4 sensei's divining top; and finish off with a singleton maindeck blue sun's zenith, or intuition, or neither.

    The stock sideboard includes minimum

    1 blue sun's zenith
    1 brain freeze
    1 turnabout
    1 pact of negation
    1 wipe away

    the other 10 can include from

    1 capsize (great when playing with both sensei's diving tops and candelabras, basically allows you to go infinite mana + draw your entire deck)
    1 intuition
    1 snap
    1 additional wipe away
    1 surgical extraction
    additional counterspells, grafdiffer's cage, defense grid, counterbalance, etc

    the one true sideboarding rule is every game 2 and 3 you swap out 1 high tide for (usually) 1 blue sun's zenith, in case of surgical extraction/extirpate
    Is no mainboard Zenith a thing now?


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  16. #1176

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube View Post
    Is no mainboard Zenith a thing now?


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    It makes 1 less wish target for the win but if I took my list I'd drop 1 meditate for a main usz.
    But it's not good to draw in the first few turns.

  17. #1177

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube View Post
    Is no mainboard Zenith a thing now?


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    it's optional.

  18. #1178

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide, version, Spiral Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube View Post
    Yeah, I suppose that would be a poor matchup. I mostly thought I could take some people by surprise, since they'd assume I was on 12 Post. My local meta usually has a lot of Miracles, Delver, and D&T. How are the other matchups for Tide?


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    Miracles can be terrible between counter-top, force, counterspell, pyroblast, snapcaster-> aforementioned counter magic. Death and Taxes isn't terrible since thalia is really the only card that slows us down, although Spirit of the Labyrinth can be a blowout in response to time spiral. Delver can be tough if they can turn 1 delver and flip and go from there doing their tempo thing.

    Zenith is just poor before the combo turn.

  19. #1179

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Anyone else looking at Curious Homunculus for the SB? Might be decent alongside TITI.
    Re: Eldritch Moon and Emrakul

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    You're right that the set symbol is a pretty big giveaway though, and it's not like anyone was expecting anything else after the last block. It's like they brought out Neil Pert and Alex Lifeson, then announced a "mysterious special guest" would be joining them. Well of course it's fucking Geddy Lee.

  20. #1180
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    With everything else going nuts, I was waiting for this to happen:
    http://www.mtgstocks.com/cards/11803
    Candelabra of Tawnos, the next card a victim to the price spiking.
    Primary legacy deck High Tide primer

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