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Thread: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

  1. #341

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Did you consider 1x Epic Experiment?

    You play with red, you play without candelabras: I think resolving one big e.exp. would allow you to USZ kill more frequently. Also it's extremely fun

  2. #342

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    It's sacreligious, but have other people considered removing Force of Wills for Swan Song in the deck in order to better maintain parody vs Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach or cutting a Force of Will for 5 1cc counter spells MD? I really feel the card helps us the most in aggro-control and control match ups where we don't have a Red Elemental Blast equivalent other than Pact of Negation, which isn't that great when decks are running combinations of Force of Will and Inquisition of Kozilek, Force of Will, Daze and Hymn to Tourach or Force of Will and Counterbalance where it only hits one set of disruption but not the other.

  3. #343

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I don't think it is a good move. Cutting Force of Will entirely makes you more vulnerable to cards like Thalia or Ethersworn Cannonist and combo-decks. I think I will play some Swan Songs in my sideboard, but I will continue playing with Force of Will and Flusterstorm in the maindeck. I also tinhk I will add one MisD to my side against Hymn to Tourach.

  4. #344
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Cutting Force of will(Best Counter in the Format) is the biggest missplay you can do in this deck. Swan Song is cool but not better than FoW and Flusterstorm in this deck.

  5. #345

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Pdingo View Post
    Cutting Force of will(Best Counter in the Format) is the biggest missplay you can do in this deck. Swan Song is cool but not better than FoW and Flusterstorm in this deck.
    I really don't think so, I SB out Force of Will vs every aggro-control and control deck for Swan Swong at the moment.

  6. #346
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I never side out fow against blue decks. That's just bad.
    You wan't to have a free counter.

  7. #347

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Pdingo View Post
    I never side out fow against blue decks. That's just bad.
    You wan't to have a free counter.
    I really don't know what you're talking about, the card disadvantage in counter wars leading up until the combo is a serious disadvantage of Force of Will, there's no reason to RFG another card when you could simply spend U and still be able to Turn About or Candleabra of Tawnos off the remaining two untapped lands and Force of Will doesn't really do anything vs Inquisition of Kozilek or Hymn to Tourach in any U/b deck. So far my match ups vs RUG and BUG are noticeably better with Swan Song over Force of Will.

  8. #348
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by feline View Post
    Don't know why I haven't shared this here yet. Though the deck is foil/promo'ed/etc out, the one card that's unique are the High Tides. Each alter took around 3 hours but it was worth it, been using these for about 9 months now:

    I'd rather prefer the Amy Weber artwork or http://bgaltered.deviantart.com/art/...usai-347827297 .

  9. #349
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I really don't know what you're talking about, the card disadvantage in counter wars leading up until the combo is a serious disadvantage of Force of Will, there's no reason to RFG another card when you could simply spend U and still be able to Turn About or Candleabra of Tawnos off the remaining two untapped lands and Force of Will doesn't really do anything vs Inquisition of Kozilek or Hymn to Tourach in any U/b deck. So far my match ups vs RUG and BUG are noticeably better with Swan Song over Force of Will.
    Against blue-based control, I'd much rather be playing with Flusterstorm and Pact of Negation. You're really only worried about countering their spells during your combo turn (aside from discard spells in UBx decks, in which case Flusterstorm is the nuts), and Force of Will is significantly worse in those games.
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  10. #350

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by astormbrewing View Post
    Against blue-based control, I'd much rather be playing with Flusterstorm and Pact of Negation. You're really only worried about countering their spells during your combo turn (aside from discard spells in UBx decks, in which case Flusterstorm is the nuts), and Force of Will is significantly worse in those games.
    I'd play Pact of Negation if people didn't play discard along with their Force of Wills, unfortunately I don't think Pact of Negation is any more than a 1x in the SB for Cunning Wish at this point, maybe 2x if you want to SB 1 in for Merchant Scroll vs RUG and Miracles - and even vs RUG and Miracles I still think Swan Song is better because it stops Stifle and Counterbalance. That's why I really like Swan Song, it's essentially a Pact of Negation on your combo turn that stops your opponent's other annoying shit turns 1 thru' X.

  11. #351

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I'd play Pact of Negation if people didn't play discard along with their Force of Wills, unfortunately I don't think Pact of Negation is any more than a 1x in the SB for Cunning Wish at this point, maybe 2x if you want to SB 1 in for Merchant Scroll vs RUG and Miracles - and even vs RUG and Miracles I still think Swan Song is better because it stops Stifle and Counterbalance. That's why I really like Swan Song, it's essentially a Pact of Negation on your combo turn that stops your opponent's other annoying shit turns 1 thru' X.
    Not many decks pack discard AND fow. Esper Stoneblade would, definitely, but not a full set. Esper deathblade doesn't even bother, it has not the right amount of blue card to sustain fows.
    The only deck that comes to mind is bugcascade.
    But yeah, I mean, sometimes I too feel like pact is sitting in my hand doing nothing; many other times t3 merchant into pact was simply gg. As for me, 1 md copy is worth running but it can definitely be cut; but if you cut it, swan song is not the ideal replacement for sure.

    The fact is PoN is invaluable against tempo+counters, while Swan Song is as bad as any non-free counterspell. You know those situations when you're forced to go off t3-t4 and they start dazing and piercing multiple things: in those matches you don't want to tax yourself for 1+1card just to counter their tax 2 counter.

    As already pointed out, Swan Song is the perfect replacement for Spell Spierce, which is in our sideboards for the sole reason of hitting CB (mostrly, and then Chalice). I wouldn't run pierce/swan song for any other reason, flusterstorm is better in any other case except against hatebears, where all the three counterspells are equally useless. Swan Song is not a replacement for PoN in my opinion, they serve different purposes.

    (on a sidenote, does anyone know any good Island card to run? Atm i'm stuck with 12x zendikar #236 (Meignaud) and i'd like to upgrade to foils soon, but I don't know if I want to go on with these.)
    Last edited by Cave; 09-25-2013 at 03:24 PM.

  12. #352
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Cave View Post
    (on a sidenote, does anyone know any good Island card to run? Atm i'm stuck with 12x zendikar #236 (Meignaud) and i'd like to upgrade to foils soon, but I don't know if I want to go on with these.)
    Beta is always best. If you don't want to spend the money, then Uzra's Saga #335 is great (it's a storm, and we're storm!). If you want foil, then Invasion #335 is beautiful.
    L2 Judge

  13. #353

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Against Control I prefer side out some untap effects (2 Candelabras usually), a High Tide and maybe a bouncer to add more counterspells, but I don't like side out Force of Will. Against control is rarely need a untap effect before Time Spiral and I think with 2 Turnabouts and maybe another one via Cunning Wish is enough to combo with six or seven islands.


    I have 25 signed Alpha Island I use to run on my decks.

  14. #354

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    I love the old island artworks so it's not a question: beta.

    But you might have a look at these:
    Onslaught #338: The boiling sea.
    Tenth Edition: The Storm, which is actually a reprint from Urza's Saga. The foil card is just stunning.
    Unhinged. Of course.

  15. #355
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Even though I haven't played High Tide since March when I sold it, I'm borrowing my friend's High Tide deck to play this Saturday in a local event. I'll type a brief report after the event.
    L2 Judge

  16. #356

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    -It might sound blasphemous but I don't really like alpha and beta islands. I prefer more elaborated artworks.

    -Zendikar ones: as I said i'm packing 12x #236 atm. If i don't find anything cooler, think i'll slowly upgrade to foil #236's.
    Those are the ones I like best; all the other zendikar full art are almost as good anyway, except #235 (jung park) which is pretty boring.

    -I don't like the unglued one to be honest, unhinged is very cool yet foils are very expensive (40+ each I think).

    -Guru's are nice but i don't even consider them to be an option since they cost almost as much as a candelabra and i'm still saving for my first one. European Lands Program, same story (the #7 with that island near Venice is incredible): I wouldn't even know where to find those.

    -Other islands: I briefly researched around. I really like the invasion one, which has been pointed out by a user 2-3 posts ago, but I also like:

    - Avacyn Restored #234
    - Ravnica (th first one, not RtR) #291 and #293
    - Lorwyn #287 and #288
    - Mirage #300

    I'll just ponder around these a bit more i guess (pun).

  17. #357

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Cave View Post
    […] European Lands Program, same story (the #7 with that island near Venice is incredible): I wouldn't even know where to find those.[…]
    Hey,

    you can get them (Euro Lands) here, though they're rather expensive:
    Euro Island 2

    Then there are the MPS “Magic Premier Shop” Promos (Japanese):
    e.g. MPS Island5

    And the “APAC” Lands (Asia Pacific):
    e.g. APAC island 1

    The Guru Island, starting from 165€:
    GURU

    The “ALP” (arena league promo) lands including a foil alpha artwork (hot!):
    ALP foil

    a foil misprint without an edition symbol starting from 30€:
    Misprint

    Simplified Chinese Alternate Art Cards:
    e.g. Island 2

    All to be found here:
    MCM search island page1

    This shall not be advertisement, it's just easier there because MCM has 1 list including ALL islands. Guess there are plenty ways to get them (ebay, scg, …).

  18. #358
    It's an ugly pile of bones... like me.
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    It's sacreligious, but have other people considered removing Force of Wills for Swan Song in the deck in order to better maintain parody vs Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach or cutting a Force of Will for 5 1cc counter spells MD? I really feel the card helps us the most in aggro-control and control match ups where we don't have a Red Elemental Blast equivalent other than Pact of Negation, which isn't that great when decks are running combinations of Force of Will and Inquisition of Kozilek, Force of Will, Daze and Hymn to Tourach or Force of Will and Counterbalance where it only hits one set of disruption but not the other.
    This is pretty rad. But like DuKeLiO said, you need to be able to counter artifacts and creatures. Losing to death and friggen taxes because I'm holding my dick with swan song when they cast some dumb hate bear seems like a bad time.

  19. #359

    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Went to european-level event in Milan (I). Last updates inform about 406 players attending.

    Went 3w-1d-2l, with that draw being unintentional. I had sloppy score but I could aim for top32. However, my head was aching for I had too much party last night so I decided to call it a good-night-guys

    The deck is really solid even without dem 250$ untappers, and the average european player is basically unprepared for the matchup.

    Many midrange, really few controls, quite a lot more of High Tides than I imagined; I believe there is one spanish high tide pilot in particular, he is fighting for top8 atm.

    The list I brought is pretty much the same i've already posted, except I swapped preordain #4 for a top, and I've been really satisfied with it.

    Greetings.
    Cave

  20. #360
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] High Tide

    Quote Originally Posted by Cave View Post

    (on a sidenote, does anyone know any good Island card to run? Atm i'm stuck with 12x zendikar #236 (Meignaud) and i'd like to upgrade to foils soon, but I don't know if I want to go on with these.)
    I took my High Tide deck with me to the GP Straßbourg with german fbb Islands of Mark Poole. Amazing picture, which he changed for me to 12 Islands with birds of paradise ;)
    He did a great job and the manabase looks so amazing!

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