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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #3241
    Remnant of the worst Case Scenario, an Immortal

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Quitrex View Post
    So, has anyone given thought to the new zombie one drop? it looks like a reasonable run if we want to go a more aggressive rout with gravecrawlers (and possibly a reliable enough recursion engine to make contamination a serious consideration)
    http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/am...dread-wanderer
    personally, i'm not sure it's good enough to de-throne nether spirit in hard-ball grindy pox, but the fact that it's a self-recurring 2 power 1 drop is relevant. it would be infinitely better if it was a cheaper recur mana wise or was instant speed, or could come back untapped at the 'cost' of being a 2 drop, but i'm at least thinking it could be worth looking at.
    A 2/1 for 3 cmc that can BLOCK?! Damn shame it's not instant speed, otherwise, it'd be the best card since Nether Spirit. I'm in on this thing. It's like hard casting Nether Spirit from your GY and with sniping backup from Cursed Scroll, should be able to kill anything you need so Innocent Blood/Pox/Liliana can sac the fatty. 1 cast-from-hand CMC for 2 power is a good thing as well.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  2. #3242

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    So shadow of the grave isn't for us. It's for people who want to abuse things like the dreams and/or seismic assault. It's likely not the best at those things, but it's very entertaining for that purpose.
    Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings."
    —Ratadrabik of Urborg

  3. #3243

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox



    Translation:
    Start // Finish
    2W // 2B
    Instant // Sorcery
    Start
    Create two 1/1 white Warrior creature tokens with vigilance.

    Finish
    Aftermath (Cast this spell only from your graveyard. Then exile it.)
    As an additional cost to cast Finish, sacrifice a creature.
    Destroy target creature.

    Could see this in a BW Pox list...one end "lingering souls" other end removal...

  4. #3244

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by streetMage View Post


    Translation:
    Start // Finish
    2W // 2B
    Instant // Sorcery
    Start
    Create two 1/1 white Warrior creature tokens with vigilance.

    Finish
    Aftermath (Cast this spell only from your graveyard. Then exile it.)
    As an additional cost to cast Finish, sacrifice a creature.
    Destroy target creature.

    Could see this in a BW Pox list...one end "lingering souls" other end removal...
    Ehh, you could try it. But pox already has a large amount of removal and I think waiting for the card to hit the graveyard to just get eaten by DRS is gonna suck... And the tokens aren't flying so I personally wouldn't play this over lingering souls + any kind of removal already in the deck.

  5. #3245

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    There's also the mono-black one which is sorcery Hero's Downfall on the front end and 4-mana-Vile-Rebirth on the back end which is not too bad either (if you decide that killing PWs is very important)

  6. #3246

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadWills View Post
    I may be a little late but I'm a total noob on the source. I'll be honest I'm here for NicFit and any dabbling I do is really to further my goals there. I want to take that deck toward GB and I'm curious if maybe something convergent between here and there is where I'm headed. Also I'm a big fan of the card Smallpox as a "pet" card.

    I think this quote is not totally correct but also I think it has some merit. I'ts ok to be... (I'll use miracles for example) a great counterbalance deck but not -the best- Sensei's Divining Top deck. But still you want SDT, and overall miracles is still a great deck. So for smallpox I don't think that 'not' being Turbo Depths precludes us from using the Dark Depths combo; but it is relevant to consider why we would want it and if we should want it. And it may be useful to consider why and how "the best deck doing that thing" is doing it. And I think your totally right in that we need to consider what -are- we the best at? And I think your right that pox might be the best resource denial deck (though I like D&T for that as well).

    I've tried the DD combo in GB builds before and while it is like "Ooops, I win!" sometimes, it has not been consistent enough for me. That said I do still like Crop Rotation despite it's weakness to counterspell (Force of Will).

    Also, as (NicFit is) a deck with Pernicious Deed, I'm also "particular intrigued by the idea of collective brutality and maximixing our graveyard happy cards." (alongside smallpox, but that is obvious here.) Deed kills Rest in Peace so good. I've seen some people here using Pernicious Deed. (NicFit is so good with Deed because Veteran Explorer makes tons of mana for that deck)
    (also NicFit runs Cabal Therapy which I have seen some people recommend and has been graveyard happy enough for me.)
    *It seems I may be recommending someone put a NicFit package in their Pox deck and playtest it for me ;) That seems to be where I'm trying to go.
    FWIW, there's old school heavy control bug lists that are basically:
    Veteran explorer, cabal therapy, Innocent blood, deed, jace and liliana.
    They are really fun lists. And, while not truly competitive in today's landscape, you could make your opponents miserable while both using pox themes and nic fit themes.

    Check out "Pernicious jace" and "veteran planeswalker " lists. :-)

  7. #3247
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I've been practicing with a list that feels pretty good. My sideboard is still in flux but overall this version has shown solid consistency.

    Lands - 23
    7 x Swamp
    4 x Mishra's Factory
    4 x Wasteland
    4 x Polluted Delta
    3 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 x Verdant Catacombs

    Creatures - 3
    2 x Bloodghast
    1 x Nether Spirit

    Spells - 23
    4 x Smallpox
    4 x Thoughtseize
    3 x Dark Ritual
    3 x Hymn to Tourach
    3 x Sinkhole
    3 x Innocent Blood
    2 x Collective Brutality
    1 x Darkblast

    Planeswalkers - 4
    4 x Liliana of the Veil

    Artifacts - 6
    3 x Sensei's Divining Top
    2 x Cursed Scroll
    1 x Crucible of Worlds

    Enchantments- 1
    1 x Night of Souls' Betrayal

    Thoughts?

  8. #3248

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiptoon View Post
    I've been practicing with a list that feels pretty good. My sideboard is still in flux but overall this version has shown solid consistency.

    Lands - 23
    7 x Swamp
    4 x Mishra's Factory
    4 x Wasteland
    4 x Polluted Delta
    3 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 x Verdant Catacombs

    Creatures - 3
    2 x Bloodghast
    1 x Nether Spirit

    Spells - 23
    4 x Smallpox
    4 x Thoughtseize
    3 x Dark Ritual
    3 x Hymn to Tourach
    3 x Sinkhole
    3 x Innocent Blood
    2 x Collective Brutality
    1 x Darkblast

    Planeswalkers - 4
    4 x Liliana of the Veil

    Artifacts - 6
    3 x Sensei's Divining Top
    2 x Cursed Scroll
    1 x Crucible of Worlds

    Enchantments- 1
    1 x Night of Souls' Betrayal

    Thoughts?
    It might work for you, but I'm against any pox list that runs nether spirit along other creatures in the deck. It's just such a feel bad when nether spirit gets stuck in the graveyard and being useless. I'd just run bloodghasts or just a nether spirit.

  9. #3249
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFrowny_ View Post
    It might work for you, but I'm against any pox list that runs nether spirit along other creatures in the deck. It's just such a feel bad when nether spirit gets stuck in the graveyard and being useless. I'd just run bloodghasts or just a nether spirit.
    I was actually in the same boat with Nether Spirit. I've been on the Reid Duke list since I picked up the deck and I've really only meddled with the 3-4 flex slots he left in the deck. However, as a concession to playing Thoughtseize and Collective Brutality the deck needs more cards for Escalate. I've found that with Top and fetch lands it's fairly easy to keep Bloodghast out of the yard and it's very helpful to keep pressure on the opponent.

  10. #3250

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiptoon View Post
    I've been practicing with a list that feels pretty good. My sideboard is still in flux but overall this version has shown solid consistency.

    Lands - 23
    7 x Swamp
    4 x Mishra's Factory
    4 x Wasteland
    4 x Polluted Delta
    3 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 x Verdant Catacombs

    Creatures - 3
    2 x Bloodghast
    1 x Nether Spirit

    Spells - 23
    4 x Smallpox
    4 x Thoughtseize
    3 x Dark Ritual
    3 x Hymn to Tourach
    3 x Sinkhole
    3 x Innocent Blood
    2 x Collective Brutality
    1 x Darkblast

    Planeswalkers - 4
    4 x Liliana of the Veil

    Artifacts - 6
    3 x Sensei's Divining Top
    2 x Cursed Scroll
    1 x Crucible of Worlds

    Enchantments- 1
    1 x Night of Souls' Betrayal

    Thoughts?
    I keep wanting to run multiples of Collective Brutality (waiting for them to drop online) as it seems like such a perfect fit for Pox. 2 mana and 2 of my cards for 2 of my opponents is right where we want to be. The feel bad is if it gets hit by Daze or Spell Pierce. I would be curious to see how far you could push the synergy. I will be attempting the following to start
    4 Collective Brutality
    4 Smallpox
    4 Bloodghast
    1-2 Nether Spirit
    X Cabal Therapy
    X Lingering Souls

    We are already making Smallpox powerful by breaking symmetry and Brutality is like a form of Smallpox. With so many choice cards to discard I hope it will be easier to get pressure.

    I like the above list to a degree but just wonder how it would play out by cutting Hymn and Sinkhole. We have witnessed lists in the past succeed without these golden cows.
    Anyone experiment with anything like this?

  11. #3251
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by sppabin View Post
    I keep wanting to run multiples of Collective Brutality (waiting for them to drop online) as it seems like such a perfect fit for Pox. 2 mana and 2 of my cards for 2 of my opponents is right where we want to be. The feel bad is if it gets hit by Daze or Spell Pierce. I would be curious to see how far you could push the synergy. I will be attempting the following to start
    4 Collective Brutality
    4 Smallpox
    4 Bloodghast
    1-2 Nether Spirit
    X Cabal Therapy
    X Lingering Souls

    We are already making Smallpox powerful by breaking symmetry and Brutality is like a form of Smallpox. With so many choice cards to discard I hope it will be easier to get pressure.

    I like the above list to a degree but just wonder how it would play out by cutting Hymn and Sinkhole. We have witnessed lists in the past succeed without these golden cows.
    Anyone experiment with anything like this?
    I definitely like Collective Brutality's versatility however I don't think it's strong enough to cut Hymn or Sinkhole altogether for it. I mainly play it to recoup some of the life lost to Thoughtseize and Smallpox or as removal in a pinch. The inability to hit lands, planeswalkers, and artifacts comes up often and a resource denial deck like Pox can't have too many narrow discard cards. If you want to build around Collective Brutality I would probably recommend something along the lines of Reanimator or Zombardment instead that focuses on really abusing the graveyard.

  12. #3252

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiptoon View Post
    I definitely like Collective Brutality's versatility however I don't think it's strong enough to cut Hymn or Sinkhole altogether for it. I mainly play it to recoup some of the life lost to Thoughtseize and Smallpox or as removal in a pinch. The inability to hit lands, planeswalkers, and artifacts comes up often and a resource denial deck like Pox can't have too many narrow discard cards. If you want to build around Collective Brutality I would probably recommend something along the lines of Reanimator or Zombardment instead that focuses on really abusing the graveyard.
    So imo you cannot cut Hymn, no matter what you do. It's just such a blowout in every matchup. On the other hand, a lot of lists lately have been cutting sinkhole, I personally love sinkhole for the nostalgic factor but with how mana efficient the format is, most decks can run on 1 land to drag themselves out of our grasp. So I believe its reasonable to cut sinkhole, but not hymn. It's too valuable.

  13. #3253

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    So this is a list I saw on mtgtop8 a few days ago, http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15182&d=292071&f=LE
    I like how he diversified his threats and ran quite a bit of utility. I made a few changed since I didn't like the Disk, because it's too slow imo. And I cut the tabernacle since I don't have one lol.

    Lands-26
    9 Swamp
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Cabal Pit
    1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
    1 Maze of Ith
    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Spawning Pool
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Wasteland

    Spells-20
    1 Beseech the Queen
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Innocent Blood
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Smallpox
    4 Thoughtseize

    Enchantments-4
    2 Nether void
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 The Abyss

    Artifacts-6
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Cursed Scroll
    2 Phyrexian Totem

    Planeswalkers-4
    4 Liliana of the Veil

  14. #3254
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I also thought Disk was random, until last week during playtesting I cast Ritual, Ritual, Disk to clean up a Thalia, Vial, Mom and something else (I think a Mirran Crusader).

    Then I realised it's probably a good 1-off for a build running Rituals, as it's the only way (Ratchet bomb being even more slow + vulnerable) for mono-B to beat a variety of Artifacts (Batterskull anyone?), Enchantments etc, randomly also providing a wipe against swarm strategies that go over the top of your sacrifice-1s.

    I'd much rather face something random like Enchantress, DnT etc with something like Disk in my main. Except for non-ETW combo, it does at least *something* against 90% of legacy decks.

  15. #3255

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjaulnir View Post
    I also thought Disk was random, until last week during playtesting I cast Ritual, Ritual, Disk to clean up a Thalia, Vial, Mom and something else (I think a Mirran Crusader).

    Then I realised it's probably a good 1-off for a build running Rituals, as it's the only way (Ratchet bomb being even more slow + vulnerable) for mono-B to beat a variety of Artifacts (Batterskull anyone?), Enchantments etc, randomly also providing a wipe against swarm strategies that go over the top of your sacrifice-1s.

    I'd much rather face something random like Enchantress, DnT etc with something like Disk in my main. Except for non-ETW combo, it does at least *something* against 90% of legacy decks.
    Hmm... I've never tried it so I guess I will have to, I think I'll just replace The Abyss with Disk then. I'll try and jam some games with my group and give feedback..

    Also, I didn't think about this until now. But wouldn't Grim Tutor be a strictly better upgrade to Beseech the Queen? Or do you think the difference wouldn't matter too much.

  16. #3256
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFrowny_ View Post
    Hmm... I've never tried it so I guess I will have to, I think I'll just replace The Abyss with Disk then. I'll try and jam some games with my group and give feedback..

    Also, I didn't think about this until now. But wouldn't Grim Tutor be a strictly better upgrade to Beseech the Queen? Or do you think the difference wouldn't matter too much.
    Since Grim costs you 3 life, I wouldn't call it "strictly"



    Grim Tutor:
    +Always costs 3 mana
    +Always tutors any card in your deck
    -You lose 3 life (while already running Thoughtseize etc)
    -Costs like 150€

    Beseech:
    +Don't lose life (life is a precious resource for Pox to buy time to stabilize)
    +Costs like 0,50€
    -May be harder to cast for 3 without Urborg online or Dark Rit - f.ex. with 2 Swamps + 1 Wasteland in play.
    -Is not guaranteed to tutor *everything* in your deck at any moment.

    I'm guessing the last one will not occur too often (as usually you won't need to tutor the more expensive cards like Ensnaring Bridge, Disk turn 1-2), and you still get your turn 1 Dark Rit tutor Surgical against fast GY decks etc;
    but against SnT/Marit Lages it's good to be able to drop Bridge off their SnT turn 2'ish, not having to wait for turn 3 to tutor and 4 to play (that's the most relevant scenario I can imagine where you need expensive cards early game to survive).

  17. #3257

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFrowny_ View Post
    So this is a list I saw on mtgtop8 a few days ago, http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15182&d=292071&f=LE
    I like how he diversified his threats and ran quite a bit of utility. I made a few changed since I didn't like the Disk, because it's too slow imo. And I cut the tabernacle since I don't have one lol.
    There is also some discussion of this list beginning from post 3207 in this thread.

  18. #3258

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    So I played in my local LGS legacy tournament last night with the list I posted above. Nev's Disk is way better than I gave it credit for. In every one of my matches, Disk got me back into the game.

    Against D&T I was facing a mom, Bskull, and 2 vials. And I was able to blow everything and get back into the game.
    Against Miracles I was able to get out of a double counterbalance he had on me.
    Against Mono-Red Sneak I was able to destroy a sneak attack, chalice, blood moon, and a few lotus petals.

    Overall I'm very satisfied with how Nev's Disk performed and will continue to keep it in the maindeck.

  19. #3259
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFrowny_ View Post
    So I played in my local LGS legacy tournament last night with the list I posted above. Nev's Disk is way better than I gave it credit for. In every one of my matches, Disk got me back into the game.

    Against D&T I was facing a mom, Bskull, and 2 vials. And I was able to blow everything and get back into the game.
    Against Miracles I was able to get out of a double counterbalance he had on me.
    Against Mono-Red Sneak I was able to destroy a sneak attack, chalice, blood moon, and a few lotus petals.

    Overall I'm very satisfied with how Nev's Disk performed and will continue to keep it in the maindeck.
    Did you need the rituals to play it?
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  20. #3260

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Did you need the rituals to play it?
    No, I never used rituals to play the Disk

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