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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #5041
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    That seems reasonable, for sure. Maindeck Plague Engineers alone would be very powerful. If Smallpox gets cut with a focus on spot removal then there is less reason to go deep into Ensnaring Bridge, but you would be more susceptible to top-decks. When your draw engine is a 4-drop it makes it a little dicey, depending on the matchup, but especially against Delver decks. I think it's generally better to play Smallpox, some spot removal, and Bridge. You want more removal/locks then they have threats, then it's just a matter of who wins the disruption war (counterspells vs discard) to see what sticks. The good news is that Pox has been historically good against Delver decks because of the absurd resource denial. Uro and Oko are big problems though. Smallpox strains their resources so well but Bridge is weak to Oko.

    Also, if you're playing Bitterblossom you could also include some number of Cabal Therapy. I don't see Bitterblossom as bad in a Bridge deck either; I think Bitterblossom is one of the best underplayed cards in Legacy.
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  2. #5042
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I've had to squeeze in Bottled Cloister to consider Ensnaring Bridge and Court of Ambition. When it becomes available in MTGO, I can get to testing it. It's highly mana intensive, but I'm hoping the advantage is worth the prices paid.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  3. #5043

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Any chance you Pox players going to update this premier? Its really old. On a side note, I think Karn Pox is currently the most successful variant of Pox. Been having a 50+% winrate at an MTGO League level in 11 events so far and plan to scale up the competition. Adachi Ryosuke returned back with Karn Pox and if you don't know him he is easily the best Pox player in the world.

  4. #5044

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I think there would have to be a new thread to do that, as OP doesn't post anymore I dont think. I'd do it but im far from the expert haha.

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  5. #5045
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    There seems to be a leaning in the discord thread to cut smallpox altogether and if I were to update the primer, I'd never do it. Otherwise, we'd just post in another thread. It's just mono-black control at that point. Pox would be dead as an archetype. I can't update the primer as I'd be too biased to hold onto an ancient outdated card aka Balance 3.0. The idea was to work with Balance 2.0 which was big Pox, but that one got cut for being inefficient. Smallpox is now the staple and the deck was evolved into Smallpox. Now people are saying Smallpox isn't good enough.

    My excessively loud opinion is that you can't call yourself a Pox player if you're not running a Pox effect: life + land + hand + creatures must die in one card. Death Cloud counts but the X is nasty. What other spell Searing touches, Sinkholes, Innocent Bloods and Raven's Crimes all at once?

    I fear the people that play to win must simply abandon the archetype and GTFO. Just my $0.02. Until WotC allows mass disruption to be fun again, we're going to see more Uro & Oko such nonsense without equal disruption to offset the advantages. I hoped that Kroxa could offset Uro but he just simply isn't. There is no equivalent Planeswalker to counter balance Oko. Instead, we'll see more free power spells like Force of Negation & Force of Vigor.

    Anyone else feel like WoTC is throwing disruption players under the bus and only allowing Permission and combo players to have all he fun?
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  6. #5046

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I think the far more serious problem for any mono black deck nowadays is Veil of Summer. Oko and Uro can all be solved somehow by adapting but Veil can't (untargeted discard sucks). Discard is not viable as anti-control and anti-combo measure anymore and this is a fundamental change to the format and mono black specifically. I argue that any mono black deck is unviable as long as Veil is legal.

    One can hope that wizards will ban it some day because they realize it's unhealthly that discard strategies are completely unplayable in such a combo heavy format. It's clear that the format wont stay the way it is right now because complaints are everywhere. My fear however is that it will only either hit either Oko or Uro while Veil stays untouched because R&D doesnt realize its devastating effect on this format.

  7. #5047
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Veil is actually not that common right now, it shows up as maybe a 2-of in some sideboards. It's a metagame dependent card: if people get blown out from Veil of Summer they adapt, then Veil of Summer gets worse, then people trim down on copies, then it opens up the door for black disruption again.

    I've been on Lantern Pox for a few months now, albeit with no serious testing, and I love it. Smallpox synergizes with that strategy perfectly by denying resources and getting me hellbent so I can leverage Ensnaring Bridge and the Lantern/Mill rock combo. My one real issue with the deck is its lack of velocity; I can usually play around disruption and lock up the game with Bridge and Ashiok, Dream Render but I don't always draw into them. The Lantern/Mill rock engine can really churn through my top-decks nicely, but it doesn't give me what I really need which is some sort of cantrip-like filtering. I could always splash green for Ancient Stirrings, Abrupt Decay, and Sylvan Library again but I wasn't super happy with that setup.

    Any suggestions for ways of gaining velocity in mono-black? I already have 1x Castle Locthwain in the list, which is decent, but all of the velocity currently is in the mid-late game. I'm looking for something early, like turns 1-3.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  8. #5048

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Veil is actually not that common right now, it shows up as maybe a 2-of in some sideboards. It's a metagame dependent card: if people get blown out from Veil of Summer they adapt, then Veil of Summer gets worse, then people trim down on copies, then it opens up the door for black disruption again.

    I've been on Lantern Pox for a few months now, albeit with no serious testing, and I love it. Smallpox synergizes with that strategy perfectly by denying resources and getting me hellbent so I can leverage Ensnaring Bridge and the Lantern/Mill rock combo. My one real issue with the deck is its lack of velocity; I can usually play around disruption and lock up the game with Bridge and Ashiok, Dream Render but I don't always draw into them. The Lantern/Mill rock engine can really churn through my top-decks nicely, but it doesn't give me what I really need which is some sort of cantrip-like filtering. I could always splash green for Ancient Stirrings, Abrupt Decay, and Sylvan Library again but I wasn't super happy with that setup.

    Any suggestions for ways of gaining velocity in mono-black? I already have 1x Castle Locthwain in the list, which is decent, but all of the velocity currently is in the mid-late game. I'm looking for something early, like turns 1-3.
    It's pretty old tech, but has Bob been tried? Doesn't play well with smallpox, but great as a follow up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  9. #5049

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Veil is actually not that common right now, it shows up as maybe a 2-of in some sideboards. It's a metagame dependent card: if people get blown out from Veil of Summer they adapt, then Veil of Summer gets worse, then people trim down on copies, then it opens up the door for black disruption again.

    I've been on Lantern Pox for a few months now, albeit with no serious testing, and I love it. Smallpox synergizes with that strategy perfectly by denying resources and getting me hellbent so I can leverage Ensnaring Bridge and the Lantern/Mill rock combo. My one real issue with the deck is its lack of velocity; I can usually play around disruption and lock up the game with Bridge and Ashiok, Dream Render but I don't always draw into them. The Lantern/Mill rock engine can really churn through my top-decks nicely, but it doesn't give me what I really need which is some sort of cantrip-like filtering. I could always splash green for Ancient Stirrings, Abrupt Decay, and Sylvan Library again but I wasn't super happy with that setup.

    Any suggestions for ways of gaining velocity in mono-black? I already have 1x Castle Locthwain in the list, which is decent, but all of the velocity currently is in the mid-late game. I'm looking for something early, like turns 1-3.
    My Pox draw engine is Bloodghast with either Faithless Looting and/or Village Rites.

  10. #5050
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    I've tried Dark Confidant before, usually out of the sideboard. I think there are plenty of ways to create actual card advantage in the setup; I mean, the Lantern + Mill rock combo essentially invalidates anything that isn't an answer to Ensnaring Bridge. What I need is velocity, a way to see more cards in the early game to craft turns that lead to the endpoint of Bridge + Lantern engine. Ancient Stirrings may just be the literal best card for the strategy, I just don't know if it's worth splashing green for it. Abrupt Decay is definitely a good option, but there are lots of colorless lands right now in the list. Mishra's Factory has been very good at staving off early aggression and stonewalling Arcanist and Wasteland speaks for itself. I have plenty of uses for the colorless mana so they are essentially a free-role in this deck. Even with Mox Opal, the deck had color issues.

    I love the Bloodghast + value cards engine, I've used off/on for years in Pox. I wish I had the room for it, but I just don't with the Lantern setup. For reference, here is my current (very budget!) list.

    4x Lantern of Insight
    4x Codex Shredder
    4x Ghoulcaller's Bell
    4x Ensnaring Bridge
    2x Pithing Needle
    3x Mox Opal
    2x Cursed Scroll
    4x Smallpox
    2x Dark Ritual
    2x Collective Brutality
    2x Surgical Extraction
    3x Ashiok, Dream Render
    4x Thoughtseize

    4x Wasteland
    3x Mishra's Factory
    1x Buried Ruin
    4x Vault of Whispers
    1x Castle Locthwain
    9x Swamp
    Brainstorm Realist

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  11. #5051
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Bob was ancient tech used by Reid Duke in his last published Pox lists. He just took out the Innocent Bloods after siding them in. I've been using Asylum Visitor as a budget replacement in my non-ensnaring Bridge lists. She hits like a truck and plays very well with Lilianas, Smallpoxes, and Dark Ritual. Drawing extra cards during your opponent's turn also dodges Narset.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  12. #5052

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    To match Uro's power level, why cant Kroxa have had, when it enters play each player sacrifices a land, discards a card, and loses 3 life? Kroxa is so underpowered compared to Uro. And it would have helped push Pox decks to a playable deck in the current era of legacy.

  13. #5053
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Is Mishra's Bauble good enough? It creates velocity, works with the Mill rocks as a 1-use Lantern, and it's free. I might grab some and try it out.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  14. #5054
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    To match Uro's power level, why cant Kroxa have had, when it enters play each player sacrifices a land, discards a card, and loses 3 life? Kroxa is so underpowered compared to Uro. And it would have helped push Pox decks to a playable deck in the current era of legacy.
    They must have only noted that Kroxa does 9 damage on Hellbent and thought, "This is enough" derp... Each Player losing resources when he attacks wouldn't offset Uro. Defending Player only would be best since Uro affects only 1 side.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  15. #5055

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    They must have only noted that Kroxa does 9 damage on Hellbent and thought, "This is enough" derp... Each Player losing resources when he attacks wouldn't offset Uro. Defending Player only would be best since Uro affects only 1 side.
    I figured just your opp sacrificing would be seen as OP.

  16. #5056
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Actually, the balance would have been: discard a land card or sacrifice a land, otherwise defending player loses 3 life. This way, Kroxa would be card advantage. Uro is always advantage just for the draw effect. Just getting bolted if they can't discard isn't enough.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  17. #5057

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by OmniStrata View Post
    Actually, the balance would have been: discard a land card or sacrifice a land, otherwise defending player loses 3 life. This way, Kroxa would be card advantage. Uro is always advantage just for the draw effect. Just getting bolted if they can't discard isn't enough.
    Your Kroxa is still way worse then Uro. There are tons of discard/sac OR lose life. They are all bad.

  18. #5058
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittplayer View Post
    Your Kroxa is still way worse then Uro. There are tons of discard/sac OR lose life. They are all bad.
    Uro has a lower escape cost than Kroxa, never forget. Escape 5 = escape 4 when you draw a bonus card. Kroxa is much worse than Uro, and much much worse than Cling.

  19. #5059

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Uro has a lower escape cost than Kroxa, never forget. Escape 5 = escape 4 when you draw a bonus card. Kroxa is much worse than Uro, and much much worse than Cling.
    Implying cling is better than uro is pretty crazy

  20. #5060
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    He's saying Cling is better than Kroxa, which is debatable. It might be a better effect in the metagame but Kroxa is definitely a more powerful card than Cling to Dust.
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