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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Pox

  1. #5141

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    My point was more that counting playing a land for turn as 0 for 1ing yourself, like it was a lotus petal, is absurd.

    But I could get on the ďpox is unredeemably badĒ train.

  2. #5142
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    5 for 1 is misleading, I apologize.

    I was counting in an opening hand/mulligan mindset of, "If 5 of 7 cards are these cards, then I can end the play with 2 cards in hand etc..."
    You get a land in play, Phyriexian Arena and they lose a card. All tangible benefits, so you're spot on there.
    FTW gets it, maybe there's a version of Pox that goes all in, dumps your hand right away and then reaps value of LotV +1 every turn.

    That's just not the Pox I build and play, so I can politely decline further assessments of 2 for 1 on purpose.

    Pox is not an easy deck to play
    It's punishing and that makes it easy to misinterpret pilot error with the deck's strength as a whole.
    So I can get where you're coming from.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  3. #5143

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Strategy question for pox players (I don't know the answer - looking to hear ideas):

    If you go T1 Thoughtsieze against UR delver and see Delver, cantrip, force, daze, and lands, is there an "always go for..." answer? Even though pox has lots of outs to creatures I've been plucking that out when I see it because all the digging and counters means I'll have to take a ton of hits by the time I can cleanly deal with it. But I wasn't sure if it might be better to pull the cantrip out and try to drain their hand instead.

    I don't play enough to have the experience doing both so thought I'd ask here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  4. #5144

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    Strategy question for pox players (I don't know the answer - looking to hear ideas):

    If you go T1 Thoughtsieze against UR delver and see Delver, cantrip, force, daze, and lands, is there an "always go for..." answer? Even though pox has lots of outs to creatures I've been plucking that out when I see it because all the digging and counters means I'll have to take a ton of hits by the time I can cleanly deal with it. But I wasn't sure if it might be better to pull the cantrip out and try to drain their hand instead.

    I don't play enough to have the experience doing both so thought I'd ask here.
    To some extent of course it depends on what the rest of your hand is. If you have other removal already then letting them keep the delver is (more) ok. Taking daze is fine to make sure your opponent can't easily stop your heavy hitting spells (Hymn/Smallpox/Liliana etc).
    Taking FoW is generally not the greatest, because the whole idea of the strategy is that all your cards are fairly interchangeable and you just want to 2-for-1 the opp until they die, but for example if you had the plan of ritual liliana on turn 2 then force would be the correct thing to take there

    I don't think I rate taking the cantrip super highly from that hand (compared to the Daze) but if you have a hand that can play around daze easily and removal for the delver then yea that's the pick probably

  5. #5145
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    The one situation I might consider taking the cantrip (if they only have 1) is if they only have 1 land and I have a Wasteland available. Even then I think the take is still delver. Yes you have redundant removal, but that just becomes insurance when all they have is reactive stuff and no pressure. Taking cantrips and interaction can slow their tempo but getting ahead of their threats can create inevitability.
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  6. #5146
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    Strategy question for pox players (I don't know the answer - looking to hear ideas):

    If you go T1 Thoughtsieze against UR delver and see Delver, cantrip, force, daze, and lands, is there an "always go for..." answer? Even though pox has lots of outs to creatures I've been plucking that out when I see it because all the digging and counters means I'll have to take a ton of hits by the time I can cleanly deal with it. But I wasn't sure if it might be better to pull the cantrip out and try to drain their hand instead.

    I don't play enough to have the experience doing both so thought I'd ask here.
    The baseline strategy for Delver is to stick a threat and protect the shit out of it to victory. I always nail their threat. Even if there's 2. Just remember every baseline strategy in MtG existence and you need not fear the outcome of 1000 battles. lol.
    Last edited by OmniStrata; 05-30-2021 at 12:40 AM. Reason: mispelling
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  7. #5147

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Appreciate the food for thought. Historically I haven't seen it much in my meta but now that play is starting again thought it might be wise to brush up on it. Just in case.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  8. #5148

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    The cook with the really long name is a recursive 1 mana 3/3 which draws a card if you can enable it. She also turns dead discard into lifegain or removal. DGA is performing much better than pox, because sfm both is card advantage, a clock, and stabilization. Most of poxís threats donít do that well; perhaps this can be our SFM.


    Mox diamond, ravens crime, small pox and LOTV all enablers that we kinda want to play anyways.

    It might be decent in my poxfait brew. Draft:


    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Land Tax
    4 Ravenís Crime
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Asmod...........
    2 The Underworld Cookbook
    4 Myth Realized
    1 Cursed Totem
    4 Smallpox
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Kaya, Orzhov Usurper

    4 Silent Clearing
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Plains
    8 Swamps
    4 Wasteland
    2 Urzaís Saga

  9. #5149
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Sho, is Liliana Waker of the Dead just because we can't run LotV #5 or do you have any special purpose otherwise?


    Interesting thought in Torpor Orb. Skyclave Apparition continues to be an issue for keeping a Liliana based lock going, this would definitively solve that.
    I run her for more consistent Liliana's Triumph. And having 3 Liliana's in play seems to force concessions.

    Torpor has saved my arse from many a StoneForge Mystic, Hullbreachers, and Apparitions. Goblins love the Orb too. Snapcaster Mages, Thassa's Oracles... The list is ginormous for Legacy's EtB nonsense.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  10. #5150
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar
    So stupid... The name I meant...
    But, It's a madness 3/3 for 1 mana. Not sure how good the cookbook is in Pox.

    I suppose, Chef Pox can be a thing.

    Unfortunately, my Sedgemoor witch testing has come up as a failure.
    Pros: the Chain of Smog Combo. Power. Menace. Immune to own Pox effects.
    Cons: oddly, Chain of Smog sux in Pox, jams Nether Spirit without Last Hope in play, if only casting spells at normal pace, Pox's spell casting is too slow once hellbent state is reached, clashes with Cursed Scroll since you never want to stop casting spells can't be discarded to Smallpox/Liliana etc. Bitterblossom or even Dreadhorde Invasion coupled with Cling to Dust spamming is superior it would seem. I cry for her, now the witch is an ex-waifu for Pox.

    Current build:

    4 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Liliana, Waker of the Dead
    1 Nether Spirit
    1 Nether Void
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Innocent Blood
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Smallpox
    3 Sinkhole
    1 Cursed Scroll
    2 Liliana's Triumph
    3 Cling to Dust
    1 Blast Zone
    2 Castle Locthwain
    4 Mishra's Factory
    9 Snow-Covered Swamp
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Wasteland

    SB:

    1 Torpor Orb
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Yixlid Jailer
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Damping Sphere
    1 Murderous Rider
    1 Hex Parasite
    1 Dystopia
    1 Void Mirror
    1 Dauthi Voidwalker

    Why so many singles? With 5 reusable cantrips in the deck, running 4-ofs felt less necessary. What's jarring is now, we need mana open between turns to either Scroll Damage or draw cards or heal ourselves by eating their dead creatures.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  11. #5151
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    Strategy question for pox players (I don't know the answer - looking to hear ideas):

    If you go T1 Thoughtsieze against UR delver and see Delver, cantrip, force, daze, and lands, is there an "always go for..." answer? Even though pox has lots of outs to creatures I've been plucking that out when I see it because all the digging and counters means I'll have to take a ton of hits by the time I can cleanly deal with it. But I wasn't sure if it might be better to pull the cantrip out and try to drain their hand instead.

    I don't play enough to have the experience doing both so thought I'd ask here.
    That depends on what type cantrip it is. If it's a brainstorm then the opponent can play a land and then put the other two lands back in his deck in exchange for better cards. (Also brainstorm help trigger Delver. Remember it is really no threat if it remain a 1/1.)

    I recommend a sudden edict if you fight many Delver decks.
    Last edited by Hardcore; 06-15-2021 at 06:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  12. #5152

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    That depends on what type cantrip it is. If it's a brainstorm then the opponent can play a land and then put the other two lands back in his deck in exchange for better cards. (Also brainstorm help trigger Delver. Remember it is really no threat if it remain a 1/1.)

    I recommend a sudden impact if you fight many Delver decks.
    Sudden Impact? That card is unplayable.

  13. #5153

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    I recommend a sudden impact if you fight many Delver decks.
    Do you mean Sudden Edict?

  14. #5154

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    This deck is another possible option for Urza's Saga possibly, replacing Mishra's Factory
    - Soulguide Lantern / Relic
    - Cursed Scroll
    - The Rack
    - Meekstone

    Goes well with Crucible too

  15. #5155
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    Do you mean Sudden Edict?
    Right. Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    hardcore is our resident aggro pox master, hopefully he can help you

    "Pox early, Pox often, and Pox hard!" - Le_Lepreux

  16. #5156
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    This deck is another possible option for Urza's Saga possibly, replacing Mishra's Factory
    - Soulguide Lantern / Relic
    - Cursed Scroll
    - The Rack
    - Meekstone

    Goes well with Crucible too
    I think it's ok there as a tutor, but not taking advantage of the construct token generation makes it a lot more fair than what other decks are doing with it. It's safe to say that if we are tapping out our lands to make constructs we aren't playing Hymn/Liliana/Smallpox. Not to mention it is really bad with Smallpox, sacrificing our dude we made to get full tempo value out of it. I think in order to really make it worthwhile you need to be able to use all 3 modes of the card (mana, dudes, tutor.) I could be way off on this, but even Mishra's Factory, ubiquitous as it is, has always caused tension with casting spells in Pox. I love getting The Rack, Meekstone, grave hate, and even Pithing Needle with a tutor like Urza's Saga but there is real tension unless you get into late game usage. I think there is potential for a re-build around Urza's Saga, but I have no idea what that would look like.
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    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  17. #5157
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Urza's Saga feels unreliable as a card for Pox. Decks that run it obviously pack artifact lands to add more oomph to the token and 0 MV mana rocks It also kills itself unless you want to make a cute combo with Hex Parasite. The tension mentioned by Safety is real. Mana tension is why I really miss Chimeric Idol as a win condition. But for some reason, it's been decided that swinging for 2 damage using 2 mana (factory) is better than swinging for 3 damage for 0 mana. Cursed Scroll EoT is also better hence why the Idol sings for nobody anymore.

    Ultimately, to run Cursed Scroll & Mishra's Factory, Idol goes outdated. I've also noticed recent lists abandoned the Phyrexian Totem. Finding reliable win cons for Pox is a big part of the adventure. Nether Spirit, C Scroll & M's factory have withstood the test of time. Liliana seems to have been considered for abandonment much like the original big Pox.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  18. #5158
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Current list that's kicking serious arses. Original build by Zolgia whose skeleton resembles Reid Duke's old build but replace the Cursed Scrolls with Lilianas.

    4 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Liliana, Waker of the Dead
    1 Nether Void
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Innocent Blood
    2 Liliana's Triumph
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Smallpox
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Baleful Mastery
    9 Snow-Covered Swamp
    3 Castle Locthwain
    1 Maze of Ith
    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard

    1 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Baleful Mastery
    2 Null Rod
    2 Ashiok, Dream Render
    2 Dauthi Voidwalker
    2 Extirpate
    2 Engineered Plague
    1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

    In paper magic, the deck is a fortune so I only play on MTGO. The sideboard originally ran Leylines but I went for something with more resistance to Force of Vigor. Having a double Leyline start cooked by Vigor is very discouraging but using Voidwalker and Ashiok gave far more versatility.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

  19. #5159

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Would you run multiple Tabbies in the board, if you had access? And is The Abyss something we don't want anymore?
    oh and I just saw, no Nether Spirit and the list dropped Cling to dust... I'm curious

  20. #5160
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Pox

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlenasty View Post
    Would you run multiple Tabbies in the board, if you had access? And is The Abyss something we don't want anymore?
    oh and I just saw, no Nether Spirit and the list dropped Cling to dust... I'm curious
    No to the Tabernacles as multiples. Legend Rule won't help. It's used to stop decks that creature flood without payment. Aether Vial, GSZ, Madness, Affinity. Pop the lands and Tabernacle will help. No Clings seems odd but from what I can tell, the maker of Archetype B built the deck to have the least weakness, Cling can be attacked via GY hate but not Locthwain, they have to Wasteland or needle it. Nether Spirit is a less resilient threat than a trio of walkers. I've brought in Hive of the Eye Tyrant for an 8th threat in place of a Castle. It improves Slow GY resource decks matchups. Eats Uro, Hogaak, Vengevine & Bloodghasts with every attack.
    Last edited by OmniStrata; 07-27-2021 at 11:43 AM.
    Three Lilianas to rule them all. One Pox to find them. Smallpox to bring them all and in the Sinkhole bind them!

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