Tested it a bit, and I think Sire of Insanity would net us an additional game win in ten, but likely not more. The thing is, we already have good Entomb targets in Iona, Griselbrand, and Void Winnower. Sire of Insanity would have to be raw drawn and discarded, so not much utility. And I feel like I need something more against Storm. So far I'm only testing even against ANT. Any suggestions? I only have 4 Thoughtseize for discard. Is another Duress or something in the board the best I can do?
I must disagree with you and your friend, AEMarling, as I have been running some goldfish tests and if you can get a turn 1 Sire, they (storm) literally cannot win if the Sire isn't bounced.
Furthermore, Sneak and Show is virtually unaffected by Void Winnower, which is much more of an issue than storm. I have beaten storm with Griselbrand + disruption enough that I think I am comfortable against it, moreso at least than with Void Winnower against SnS. Yes, it's good in the matchup(s?) it's good in, but for a more local meta; I'm never going to play this in a GP. Also, a play against storm when they pass the turn after grabbing a Past in Flames, Entomb the Coffin Purge and snag it, and some players even only play 1. They now have to topdeck another PiF or a second Infernal Tutor, and this is all with the predication of them drawing two lands right off the bat in the first place.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Hello,
I would like to ask the more experienced Reanimator players about sideboarding. In most matchups it's obvious what to board in (consider a generic sideboard that has some removal, needles, decays, bounce and 2-3 tunable slots), but how to determine what to board out? Also, when do people board in Ashen Rider? Inkwell Leviathan? And what matchups does the baby Jace shine in (for those who tried him out)?
Thanks in advance.
heat_wave, the convention is to take out Force of Wills, along with Dazes on the draw. However, I prefer a minimalist approach to sideboarding, and I will rarely side out much, especially on the play where I'm focusing on speed. On the draw, a few Careful Studies vs grindy matchups. Maybe take out a few Animate Dead / Exhume depending on the matchup, but I'm not happy about it. I believe we get the most value with more fatties in our sideboard, which can swap one for one. These we can search for with Entomb.
Speaking of sideboarding, I've been working on my sideboard plan against Death and Taxes. I see three potential strategies to aim for:
1) Use Pithing Needle to take out Karakas and win with legends. The downside is that sometimes the Needle does too little. And they can Flickerwisk the Needle then Karakas the legend.
2) Side out most legends. Use Thoughtseize/ Force of Will to protect non-legends like Grave Titan. I would also include Inferno Titan.
3) Use shroud creatures like Inkwell Leviathan and Empyrial Archangel plus Massacre to race. The downside is that Empyrial Archangel is pretty bad and likely only remotely playable in this mathcup. Also, they often side in Council's Judgment.
I tested these three plans a little, and of them the third felt the least terrible. The best option may be to abandon the matchup completely, perhaps cutting down to 1 Needle in sideboard, 1-0 Massacre. I could then have more cards against the more common matchups, like Storm. Any suggestions as to what my plan should be?
I pack 2 golgari charms, 1 dread of night, 2 massacre, 1 inkwell and I still loseOriginally Posted by AEMarling
I may just focus on destroying everyone else now. Or make sure I don't lose to delver matchups.
And I've been playing Archetype of Endurance and 2x Needle, 2x massacre, and 1x Golgari Charm to decent success against DnT.
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KobeBryan, what are you doing in the board to ice the Delver matchups? The only odd tech I could think of was subbing in Inferno Titan instead of a high cc creature, which would only be OK. Against Storm I could include discard spells 5-6, Sire of Insanity 1 and 2, or 2 Surgical Extraction / Faerie Macabre. The Sires would be nice in the sense that I'm terrified of putting Grave Titan into play then immediately dying. The Surgicals would be nice if they have two copies of a card and I make them discard one, then rip the other out of the hand. The Faerie don't cause loss of life and can't be countered. Both wouldn't matter against Storm but might be nice elsewhere.
Why is Griselbrand + countermagic and a follow-up fatty in the form of Iona on their removal color not good enough against Delver?
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
I tend to agree. The only thing I've felt I occasionally want is Duress over the painful Thoughtseize, but Duress is so less versatile it likely isn't worth it.
Tried Blood Baron against Death and Taxes. Didn't help enough.
Also, I like Flipwalker Jace. He does a bunch of cool things. He's good in grindier games, solid removal bait, chump blocker, etc. I am playing 2x and they feel good.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Can you give us details on how it went for you? How did they get around it?
The usual
Discard and hope i can outrace them. Drop a griselbrand and hope to race. I know they bring in submerge. So i hope that won't get there for them.
What we do need is sphinx as that card murders them.
I play that in my board. Also, only delver deck that brings in Submerge is RUG afaik.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Hey guys, after Hanks finish I figured I would post my list and get some feedback on it.
Not going to Seattle, but will be playing in the SCG Jersey open
Heres what I would sleeve up more than likely:
Reanimator:
3 griselbrand
1 Iona, shield of emeria
1 tidespout tyrant
1 elesh norn, grand cenobyte
1 grave titan
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
3 thoughtsieze
4 careful study
4 entomb
4 reanimate
4 daze
4 exhume
4 force of will
3 lotus petal
4 polluted delta
3 verdant catacombs
4 underground sea
1 tropical island
2 swamp
1 bayou
Board:
3 duress
3 abrupt decay
3 pithing needle
2 disfigure
1 thoughtsieze
1 massacre
1 empyreal archangel
1 sire of insanity
Still not sold on Jace, feel like in a field of decks that are tuned to thrive in the mid-late game, we shouldn't cater to their wishes. Still want to go under all of the other decks, and having something in your deck that costs two mana and doesn't become relevant until the next turn undermines what we are going for. There is definitely an argument for Jace in the board, but again I would rather be concretely killing them on turn 3 with permission (thoughtsieze, duress) than relying on something like Jace.
Did some testing with 2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in reanimator with the Crhis Vanmeter list and so did my brother.
I like Jace a lot in Vintage Mentor and Standard Jeskai not so much in Ranimator.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is a bit slow but can get you there versus counterspells or be the discard outlet you need. I had it win me about 3 games so far. Twice as a discard outlet and once flashing back a reanimation spell that got countered. Thats in about 11 matches on MTGO. Bro said it won him 1 game in 4 matches when he tried it at a local event. Other times i played Jace it either ate removal happens quite often game 1 or was not relavant because of graveyard hate. I did use Jace to beat deathrite one game though.
Hitting too much Miracles at least online. Jace doesn't help too much versus Miracles.
Anyone else testing Jace, Vryn's Prodigy?
List for ref
Chris VanMeter
0th Place at Test deck on 10/21/2015
Legacy
Creatures (9)
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Lands (15)
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
Spells (36)
3 Lotus Petal
1 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
2 Ponder
4 Reanimate
1 Show and Tell
2 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Grave Titan
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Coffin Purge
2 Massacre
2 Show and Tell
2 Thoughtseize
2 City of Traitors
@Hank Zhong
Congratulations and thank you for the report. Interesting to go all in on reanimation with no Show and Tells. I usually ran some number of Show and Tells but haven't played Reanimator since shortly after Containment Priest was release.
@Sire of Insanity
Really is only good versus combo if you can get it out early. Too risky vs creature deck as Tarmogoyf often trades with it. And bad versus white if top deck a Swords to Plowshares or miracle a terminus. Sideboard versus Combo.
@Aetherling
Nice versus Miracles if they do not land a Containment Priest but with 15-16 lands you do not get the most out of Aetherling. This really depends on how much miracles you face.
@Jin-Gitaxis
Dies to Dismember and as a 4/4 may not trump whatever creature they may cast which Griselbrand usually does.
@Death and Taxes.
This match up is a pain period. Massacres, Needle, City of Traitors in the board and hope you have a counter for their Swords. Honestly haven't played this match up in a long time since it is almost non-existant online.
@Delver
Depends on the variant. BUG is the hardest between deathrite, discard, counters and Liliana. Might be worth going for Grave Titan here. If you see RUG often maybe board a Sphinx of the Steelwind. RUW you seldom see anymore but depends how many Containment Priests they have. Batterskull is actually quite slow compared to RUG or BUG.
I've been playing that creature suite with Inkwell instead of grave titan. It gives me a lot more game vs. DnT.
The trounle is, I expect to see plenty of both DnT and lilliana decks in SeaTac, and Grave Titan is our best creature vs Lilli.
I'm leaning towards Inkwell main, Titan board, because Inkwell has the added splash bonus of punishing the mentor miracles builds, but it's close, and I'd love to hear some thoughts.
Also, this may just be a difference in philosophy, but I won't be sleeving up my 75 without at least a couple Show and Tells. If I wanted to try to go under everything, I'd play TinFins. One of the great things about Reanimator is that we get to play Show and Tell, and for me, we're shooting ourselves in the foot by not leaving a couple slots for it. The card was always stupid good, and with Omni largely subdued, it's only gotten better for us.
Personally if i can put a grisel on the battlefield i've never had trouble beating delver
I'm really considering punting the DNT matchup.
How would you guys make your sideboard if you go this route
As a new player to this deck, can anyone shed some insight about which matchups you Reanimate some creature other than Griselbrand as your first fatty? There are a few obvious ones (for example, Elesh Norn versus Dredge, Iona versus Elves/Goblins/Merfolk), but in which matchups do you want Grave Titan before any other creature? Or Tidespout Tyrant?
Another question: do we have any good targets against Death and Taxes? It seems pointless to even try reanimating legendary creatures just because they can topdeck/sandbag Karakas, but then all the non-legends don't seem like they do anything impactful, including the "resilient" ones like Inkwell Leviathan or Aetherling, both of which get humiliated by Batterskull.
Last edited by iostream; 11-06-2015 at 11:45 AM. Reason: i accidentally some words
Off the top of my head:
Iona vs ANT game 1. Game 2 is riskier because they have access to bounce spells. There's also an argument for going for Griselbrand first, drawing immediately, and looking for discard. But if you don't find it, it makes their storm job much easier.
Iona vs Burn, as well. I find it's also just as good as Elesh vs Elves if you land it early.
Also, I like to find Iona naming white vs. Miracles, and put them on a "Jace or Nothing" plan. (Edit: or Karakas. That pesky card).
Grave Titan, to me, is for Lilliana decks. So Sharldess BUG, BUG control, maybe bug Delver as well.
Elesh Norn can be good against DnT. They might bounce it, but you do wreck their board at least.
Inkwell Leviathan is okay in a pinch for Miracles (though it still gets hit by terminus, unfortunately. It's also fine against DnT. You're correct, batterskull is no fun. But they won't always have it.
Some people try to dodge the DnT matchup. I prefer to just lean into it. Right now my board has
2 Massacre
2 Needle
1 Dread of Night
3 Abrupt Decay
Most or all of which come in against DnT. I've had a really high success rate this way in an otherwise difficult matchup.
Hope that helps. I'm by no means a grizzled veteran with this deck, so others feel free to correct any errors I made.
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