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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Burn

  1. #1681

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    20 mountains

    4 golin guide
    4 monastery swiftspear
    4 eidolon of great revel

    4 lightning bolt
    4 chain lightning
    4 lava spike
    4 rift bolt
    4 fireblast
    1 skewer the critics
    3 price of progress
    2 sulfuric vortex
    2 exquisite firecraft

    SB:
    2 tormods crypt
    2 surgical extraction
    1 sulfuric vortex
    1 exquisite firecraft
    1 price of progress
    1 pyrostatic pillar
    2 pyroblast
    3 smash to smithereens
    2 karakas

    went 3-1-2 in 15 player tournament.
    Beat UW show and tell, bomberman and burn mirror, draw with aluren into top4, then lost to 4c phyrexian dreadgnouth deck (cant really beat 12/12 on turn 2/3 with counter backup). Screwed up in top 4 vs grixis reanimator losing pretty much already won game due to huge missplays for 1-2 score in the end. Maindeck felt pretty good, didnt play vs oko decks or at least they didnt have them in game.

  2. #1682
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Kriggy View Post
    20 mountains

    4 golin guide
    4 monastery swiftspear
    4 eidolon of great revel

    4 lightning bolt
    4 chain lightning
    4 lava spike
    4 rift bolt
    4 fireblast
    1 skewer the critics
    3 price of progress
    2 sulfuric vortex
    2 exquisite firecraft

    SB:
    2 tormods crypt
    2 surgical extraction
    1 sulfuric vortex
    1 exquisite firecraft
    1 price of progress
    1 pyrostatic pillar
    2 pyroblast
    3 smash to smithereens
    2 karakas

    went 3-1-2 in 15 player tournament.
    Beat UW show and tell, bomberman and burn mirror, draw with aluren into top4, then lost to 4c phyrexian dreadgnouth deck (cant really beat 12/12 on turn 2/3 with counter backup). Screwed up in top 4 vs grixis reanimator losing pretty much already won game due to huge missplays for 1-2 score in the end. Maindeck felt pretty good, didnt play vs oko decks or at least they didnt have them in game.
    on that phyrexian dreadnought!
    -rob

  3. #1683
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    $1K this weekend. I don't really know the meta but I'd expect a lot of Oko (unless Astrolabe gets banned tomorrow or something -- inb4?).

    This is what I'm thinking of taking:



    4 Monastery Swiftspear
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
    2 Sulfuric Vortex
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Fireblast
    4 Price of Progress
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Rift Bolt
    2 Exquisite Firecraft
    20 Mountain

    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Alpine Moon
    2 Pyrostatic Pillar
    3 Smash to Smithereens


    It's a standard list, but it deviates greatly from the Spectacle strategy that I'm used to. I feel like this will be better against an unknown meta but I'm still kind of unsure: do I go with what I'm better at playing, or what might give me an edge against control decks?

    It's been about eight years since I've played a tournament beyond a weekly, so I'm open to thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    He doesn’t have wasteland this turn, but he finds it the next. And wastes my Maze. I do get 1 zombie, but apparently stealing a zombie is just an act of petty theft? Seems like kind of a big theft to me since it stole the whole game... I die.

  4. #1684

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by alec View Post
    $1K this weekend. I don't really know the meta but I'd expect a lot of Oko (unless Astrolabe gets banned tomorrow or something -- inb4?).

    This is what I'm thinking of taking:



    4 Monastery Swiftspear
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
    2 Sulfuric Vortex
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Fireblast
    4 Price of Progress
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Lava Spike
    4 Rift Bolt
    2 Exquisite Firecraft
    20 Mountain

    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Alpine Moon
    2 Pyrostatic Pillar
    3 Smash to Smithereens


    It's a standard list, but it deviates greatly from the Spectacle strategy that I'm used to. I feel like this will be better against an unknown meta but I'm still kind of unsure: do I go with what I'm better at playing, or what might give me an edge against control decks?

    It's been about eight years since I've played a tournament beyond a weekly, so I'm open to thoughts.
    Great list!
    I think that it's better to have some edge against control decks only due to the meta right now. Your list seems really perfect, I run a very similar one with a few differences but the major one being: 3 Fireblasts and 3 Exquisite Firecrafts (and 19 Mountains).
    My goal with this is not getting so "flooded" with Fireblasts in hand that are going to get countered when I cast them (considering that the meta is full of control decks and you're playing against one). I also run some Flame Rifts on the maindeck and 2 REBs on the sideboard, but your sideboard is really very precise and neat.

  5. #1685
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    So ... Rest in Peace to a real one! Won't be playing against Breach this weekend ... not surprised but a bit sad. That deck was pretty fun (though monstrous).

    With Breach dead in the ground, likely never to escape its B&R prison, how much Hogaak can we expect moving forward? And is it a bad matchup for Burn? I've never actually played against Hogaak and want to know more about it, especially if there's the possibility of it appearing on Saturday.

    Would 3 Grafdigger's Cages and 1 Tormod's Crypt be enough?
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    He doesn’t have wasteland this turn, but he finds it the next. And wastes my Maze. I do get 1 zombie, but apparently stealing a zombie is just an act of petty theft? Seems like kind of a big theft to me since it stole the whole game... I die.

  6. #1686

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Well, I think its enough for a SB.
    From mtgtop8 a deck playing with Hogaak had this SB:

    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Assassin's Trophy
    4 Force of Vigor
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Leyline of the Void

    Which completely destroys 3 Cages and 1 Tormod, IF they manage to draw everything, but their manabase is very vulnerable to Price of Progress and they don't have lifelink or much board interaction on the main deck.
    So your strategy should be: burn to the face, and hold your resources to deal a huge amount at once, so they won't have time to cast the big boys like Hogaak or Vengevine.

    Ideally with three mana you can: Bolt, PoP (for 4 or more), Fireblast, 11 damage by turn 3. Considering that you Spiked or Goblin Guided on T1 and T2+ fetch lands from your opponent, that should do it.
    It's not easy of course, but with the right hand, you can manage to win. If you are going with this sideboard, I would also add the Ensnaring Bridges on G2 and G3 just to make sure you lock him even more.

  7. #1687
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by mulletsss View Post

    Ideally with three mana you can: Bolt, PoP (for 4 or more), Fireblast, 11 damage by turn 3. Considering that you Spiked or Goblin Guided on T1 and T2+ fetch lands from your opponent, that should do it.
    It's not easy of course, but with the right hand, you can manage to win. If you are going with this sideboard, I would also add the Ensnaring Bridges on G2 and G3 just to make sure you lock him even more.
    This is really helpful; thank you!

    How differently does Hogaak pilot from, say, Dredge? I know that Eidolon of the Great Revel isn't amazing against Dredge for instance, so that's probably sideboard bait against Hogaak too (though I think Hogaak actually "casts" more spells on average?). Just trying to gauge my approach to these decks because I wouldn't be surprised if they return in wider metas.

    If anyone wants to boot up ye olde Cockatrice so I can see it in practice, let me know.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    He doesn’t have wasteland this turn, but he finds it the next. And wastes my Maze. I do get 1 zombie, but apparently stealing a zombie is just an act of petty theft? Seems like kind of a big theft to me since it stole the whole game... I die.

  8. #1688

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by alec View Post
    This is really helpful; thank you!

    How differently does Hogaak pilot from, say, Dredge? I know that Eidolon of the Great Revel isn't amazing against Dredge for instance, so that's probably sideboard bait against Hogaak too (though I think Hogaak actually "casts" more spells on average?). Just trying to gauge my approach to these decks because I wouldn't be surprised if they return in wider metas.

    If anyone wants to boot up ye olde Cockatrice so I can see it in practice, let me know.
    About Cockatrice, I really would like to play with you, but currently I've been struggling to find time even to relax.

    Hogaak is more of a combo deck, based on creatures. The decklist has its 1 and 2 drops that Eidolon of the Great Revel would work, but I guess you should probably try to board it out for more graveyard hate and burn spells. Not saying that its not great, it's great indeed. But you have to know when to play. Ideally, on turn 2 so it can work its way up on your opponents life total

    https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=24710&d=372864&f=LE

    Check this for example. Of course, Gravecrawler, Hedron Crab and other stuff that enable discarding and the deck engine to work are going to trigger Eidolon, but once those fatties are on the field, Eidolon will be playing against you, but it'll also be a blocker.
    So, again, ideally, what you have to do is drop Eidolon on the field and hold your spells to go all-in to the face

  9. #1689
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    So ... as you can expect, that $1k did not happen. Well, it didn't get cancelled, but my teammates got sick so we made the executive decision to call it.

    My city is in quarantine, I'm living with my family, and the future is looking ... hazy. So two things:

    1) Let me know if any of y'all wanna playtest sometime. I'm using Cockatrice daily nowadays.

    2) I'm unsure if a full new thread for Burn would be premature, but I'd love to channel this restless home-bound energy into a primer-writing project, and would be down to revitalize the Burn primer if anyone is interested in a rewrite.

    Anyway, nothing new to report -- though I have been contemplating pimping out my Burn build when all is said and done. (Call it a post-apocalypse project.) The addition of so many new-bordered cards (a la Exquisite Firecraft) makes adherence to the old border kind of a pain, though . . . Suggestions?

    Stay safe and well.
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    He doesn’t have wasteland this turn, but he finds it the next. And wastes my Maze. I do get 1 zombie, but apparently stealing a zombie is just an act of petty theft? Seems like kind of a big theft to me since it stole the whole game... I die.

  10. #1690

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    1) I don't promise that I am going to be playing there, it's more likely I won't be there, but PM me with your ID on chickatrice

    2) I am not quite sure about if this is premature or not, but it seems like the burn players are all vanishing.

    . . . Suggestions?
    If you want to pimp your burn you have some cool options and like everything in Magic, some way more expensive than the others:

    • Kamigawa's Lava Spike (if you already don't have those)
    • Grand Prix Goblin Guide
    • Legends Chain Lightning
    • Textless Searing Blaze
    • Ice Age Snow-Covered Mountain
    And if you want to make things really interesting:
    Lightning Bolt either textless or fourth edition black border or even Alpha/Beta if you will
    • Arabian Nights Mountain (this one is expensive as shit)


  11. #1691
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    I recently played in a 6-man King of the Hill Style invite tournament after hours at my LGS. So long as you kept winning you stayed up. I rolled high enough that I led off the tournament. I played against GB Nic Fit (2-0), Omni-Tell (2-1), and Death & Taxes (1-2) before exiting the tournament. Overall Burn is very strong in small tournaments. The D & T player that knocked me out was taken out by a Burn player who ended up winning. It's definitely a lot of fun, and it's optimal for anyone who doesn't have a ton of patience and just wants to sling old cardboard.

    Anyhow, my list is below. I'm not sure how to do the tags to link the cards, but I figure most people viewing this probably have a good sense of what the cards do already considering how little the deck has changed over the last few years.

    Main Deck
    18 x Mountain

    2 x Exquisite Firecraft
    3 x Flame Rift
    4 x Lava Spike
    4 x Lightning Bolt
    4 x Rift Bolt
    4 x Chain Lightning
    4 x Price of Progress
    4 x Fireblast

    1 x Sulfuric Vortex

    4 x Goblin Guide
    4 x Monastery Swiftspear
    4 x Eidolon of the Great Revel

    Sideboard
    1 x Pyrostatic Pillar
    1 x Take Possession
    1 x Angel of Despair
    1 x Dead // Gone
    4 x Leyline of the Void
    3 x Searing Blood
    4 x Smash to Smithereens

    The matchup against Nic Fit was fairly straightforward. So long as you draw enough gas you can outrun their Gitrog Monster or whatever other beater they play. I was Cabal Therapy'ed three times and still managed to win - I'm really not sure how. The Show n' Tell/Omni-Tell matchup probably calls for Agent of Treachery over Take Possession, I just didn't have any on-hand to take with me. The amount of lifegain that Batterskull presents is problematic, obviously. Every meta is a little different. Mine has a Death & Taxes player that relies more heavily on Recruiter of the Guard to search for answers such as Paladin en-Vec. I was considering a sideboard more like so:

    3 x Smash to Smithereeens
    4 x Leyline of Punishment
    4 x Agent of Treachery
    2 x Red Elemental Blast
    2 x Pyroblast

    The rest of my local meta consists of another Burn deck and a Sultai Control deck. Occasionally we see Eldrazi Stompy, Tin Fins, or another Omni-Tell. Let me know what your thoughts are. I appreciate the feedback in advance.

  12. #1692

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyPenguin007 View Post
    I'm not sure how to do the tags to link the cards
    [ cards ] Lightning Bolt [ /cards ]
    without spaces
    Lightning Bolt

    Cool deck list.

  13. #1693
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Can you use the tags around the entire deck list or can you use it only on individual cards?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #1694

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    whole list can be tagged with a pair of brackets.

  15. #1695
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by mulletsss View Post
    If you want to pimp your burn you have some cool options and like everything in Magic, some way more expensive than the others:
    Beta Bolts and Arabian Nights Mountains will made your 75 cost more then the average Legacy pile without a doubt.
    Any time my opponent shows up with nonsense like that I know they're intimately familiar with ever corner case of every match-up, no missed triggers from them!

    Regarding the overarching problem of permanent removal, I've been jamming Chaos Warp as a sideboard option if I'm facing an unhealthy meta of truly degenerate decks. It's proved useful 50% of the time, which is better than other sideboard options, but even then, it's very specific to your 3-round weekly. Kudos to those that sleeve up against a GP but I'm not sure it;s that swell.
    Just posting for information sake. Since Burn is the champion of the local Meta is most instances, seems fitting to mention here.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  16. #1696
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Regarding the overarching problem of permanent removal, I've been jamming Chaos Warp as a sideboard option if I'm facing an unhealthy meta of truly degenerate decks. It's proved useful 50% of the time, which is better than other sideboard options, but even then, it's very specific to your 3-round weekly. Kudos to those that sleeve up against a GP but I'm not sure it;s that swell.
    Just posting for information sake. Since Burn is the champion of the local Meta is most instances, seems fitting to mention here.
    Chaos Warp is one of my favorite sideboard wild cards. I've been playing it on and off for a few years on MWS/Cockatrice; never picked up any copies on paper though, haha. It doesn't feel all that usable right now when so many problematic permanents can flip into others ( Omniscience into Emrakul?! Hahaha), but to me it's always been one of the most flavorful and fitting red cards of all time, so I condone its use on principle.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Beta Bolts and Arabian Nights Mountains will made your 75 cost more then the average Legacy pile without a doubt.
    Any time my opponent shows up with nonsense like that I know they're intimately familiar with ever corner case of every match-up, no missed triggers from them!
    After performing some Deep Analysis over the last few weeks, I think this would be my dream pimp deck:

    Regular foils:
    4 Monastery Swiftspear
    4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
    4 Goblin Guide (I deeply adore the Masters art, even more so than the Grand Prix foil.)
    4 Lava Spike (My Burn-playing playtest partner has a few Kamigawa foil copies of this card and they're gorgeous.)
    2 Exquisite Firecraft (Promo of this when? Hahaha.)

    Promo foils:
    3 Light Up the Stage (The above friend also has four borderless copies of these. They're really lovely.)
    4 Rift Bolt (Time Spiral is my favorite set of all time, so I might go for regular Time Spiral foils of this. But I actually really like the FNM foils of this card and I, contrary to most "pimp" opinions, find the FNM logo to be rather homely.)
    4 Fireblast (Old border > new border. Old border foil with the little shooting star is literally >>>>> all.)
    4 Lightning Bolt (Yes, the Judge foils. See the Fireblast parenthetical.)

    Four black-bordered Legends Chain Lightnings are practically a requirement, and I'd probably pick some regular old Exodus Price of Progress as well. That just leaves the Mountains...

    These are my favorite Mountains of all time. There are a few that come close, but for some reason the 346es are just gorgeous to me. To that end I could get either the basic foils of these ... or the Arena promos! There isn't that much difference between the two, though, other than a slightly smaller shooting star. So I'll probably just go with the regular ones.

    Anyway, that's what I've come up with over the last few weeks. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyPenguin007 View Post
    I recently played in a 6-man King of the Hill Style invite tournament after hours at my LGS. So long as you kept winning you stayed up. I rolled high enough that I led off the tournament. I played against GB Nic Fit (2-0), Omni-Tell (2-1), and Death & Taxes (1-2) before exiting the tournament.

    This is such a cool tournament idea; congrats on the satisfying finish! I've literally never thought to use Take Possession/Agent of Treachery before. I'd be a little wary of using Take Possession given that it can't target Emrakul, but if they're going to be showing off Omniscience first I guess it's a decent casual choice -- and I have some just lying around from Time Spiral Standard. Cool!

    How did you like the Flame Rifts? I feel like they're a little lackluster with the required Eidolons and in more aggro-oriented metagames, but I'd like to hear your thoughts and experiences. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    He doesn’t have wasteland this turn, but he finds it the next. And wastes my Maze. I do get 1 zombie, but apparently stealing a zombie is just an act of petty theft? Seems like kind of a big theft to me since it stole the whole game... I die.

  17. #1697

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Regarding the overarching problem of permanent removal, I've been jamming Chaos Warp as a sideboard option if I'm facing an unhealthy meta of truly degenerate decks. It's proved useful 50% of the time, which is better than other sideboard options, but even then, it's very specific to your 3-round weekly.
    I really like Chaos Warp but one of the most complicated board issue that I've faced when playing with burn is the white Leyline.
    Chaos Warp sadly can't handle that as well. Luckily, you dont see white Leyline on sideboards that much, so Chaos still is a great card, but the drawback sometimes might hit you hard, that's why we don't see it that often as SB plans.

    EDIT: I was wrong about Chaos Warp, misread and thought it targeted the player


    Quote Originally Posted by alec View Post
    How did you like the Flame Rifts? I feel like they're a little lackluster with the required Eidolons and in more aggro-oriented metagames, but I'd like to hear your thoughts and experiences. :)
    I am going to share my experience with Flame Rifts also: there was a time that I played with 4. The idea was that Flame Rift + Fireblast was a 8 damage bomb with only 2 mana. Then I started to loose a lot because of the life loss that it deals to you, specially against aggro decks, it's like cutting your own throat, and gets even worse with Eidolon on the battlefield (funny fact that I've tied 2 matches against 2 burn decks because Flame Rift was the last spell on the stack). After a lot of testing, I am happy with 2 on my mainboard. It's very good as a finisher combined with Fireblast. Even though the best scenario is Exquisite + Fireblast, Flame Rift sometimes does the trick. Heck, even Vexing Devil would do it.

    The master Patrick Sullivan still plays with 4 if I am not mistaken (but the dude knows all about it, so he understands when to play). Overall, I like it (and I can't cut it of my main deck )
    Last edited by mulletsss; 03-31-2020 at 05:46 PM.

  18. #1698
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by mulletsss View Post
    I really like Chaos Warp but one of the most complicated board issue that I've faced when playing with burn is the white Leyline.
    Chaos Warp sadly can't handle that as well. Luckily, you dont see white Leyline on sideboards that much, so Chaos still is a great card, but the drawback sometimes might hit you hard, that's why we don't see it that often as SB plans.
    Do you mean Leyline of Sanctity? Chaos Warp can absolutely turn Leyline of Sanctity into a maybe-somethine-else. It targets the permanent, not the player, so they don't interact at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  19. #1699
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Do you mean Leyline of Sanctity? Chaos Warp can absolutely turn Leyline of Sanctity into a maybe-somethine-else. It targets the permanent, not the player, so they don't interact at all.
    Yeah, can confirm for mullets: Chaos Warp is one of my favorite SB cards specifically because it can deal with Leyline.

    It's just kind of a shame that it can flip into something so much more problematic nowadays!
    Quote Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi View Post
    He doesn’t have wasteland this turn, but he finds it the next. And wastes my Maze. I do get 1 zombie, but apparently stealing a zombie is just an act of petty theft? Seems like kind of a big theft to me since it stole the whole game... I die.

  20. #1700

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Do you mean Leyline of Sanctity? Chaos Warp can absolutely turn Leyline of Sanctity into a maybe-somethine-else. It targets the permanent, not the player, so they don't interact at all.
    You are 100% right. I read it wrong and thought it targeted the player.
    After all, seems like a good option depending on your meta.

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