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Thread: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

  1. #6361
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Hello guys,
    what do you think about build with:
    4x Orcish Bowmasters
    4x Staff of the Storyteller
    4x Chrome Mox
    as a start?

  2. #6362
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    I've played around with BW Staff brews. Staff could be a viable card engine instead of Bob, giving you a chump blocker instead of life loss liability.

    Bowmasters are a decent hatecard and token engine.

    Maybe something like this


    //Mana: 24
    3 Chrome Mox
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Prismatic Vista
    4 Scrubland
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Castle Ardenvale
    3 Wasteland

    //Creatures: 13
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Orcish Bowmasters
    3 Dauthi Voidwalker
    3 Sedgemoor Witch

    //Artifacts: 7
    4 Staff of the Storyteller
    1 Lion Sash
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Kaldra Compleat

    //Spells: 16
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 March of Otherworldly Light
    2 Sheoldred's Edict
    1 Kaya's Guile
    1 Sevinne's Reclamation

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Nihil Spellbomb
    2 Deafening Silence
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Serenity
    2 Plague Engineer
    1 Tourach, Dread Cantor
    1 Torpor Orb
    1 Fracture
    1 Sudden Edict
    1 Serra the Benevolent


    Advantages of Staff over Bob:
    • Dies to less
    • When it does die, it trades positively with removal (leaves behind 1/1).
    • Can play on 3 mana so it always trades positively with removal (draw card in response), while Bob can die before the draw
    • No life loss. Can't suicide you.
    • Removes CMC restrictions for deckbuilding
    • Chump block mode can block big flyers like Murktide and Marit Lage
    • Pitches to March/Solitude


    Cons of Staff:
    • Uses more mana, especially white mana
    • Harder to get multiple draws out of it
    • Shut off by effects like Needle/Ouphe
    • Draw stopped by Hullbreacher (but not Narset)



    Ways to make tokens to trigger Staff:
    Bowmasters
    Stoneforge -> Kaldra
    Sedgemoor + spell
    Kaya's Guile
    Sevinne's -> Staff/Bowmaster/Sedgemoor
    Castle Ardenvale
    Serra
    Last edited by FTW; 06-18-2023 at 03:01 AM.

  3. #6363

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Hi everyone.

    This is my vision of Deadguy Ale. It is based on the consideration that by now dark ritual and dark confidant have become too slow to stay in a Mid-range, so I was inspired by the classic Deadguy, plus the modern monoblack.

    My game plan is no longer putting Liliana of the veil right away, because there are too many zero counters and if the deck loses its engine discart, it loses too much power.

    The game plan of the deck is to suck the opponent into the darkness with manadenial.

    I think it was a mistake to remove sinkhole from the deck, because over the years the cards to make manadenial have increased they have not decreased and we have not exploited them because of the Dark Confidant. We first had death Cloud which was an excellent out vs landeed, then Phyrexian obliterator which was a Zoo solution. Now we have shadow of doubt which is excellent both for manadenial and as a hate vs combo.

    Sinkhole and vindicate are also great hates vs prismatic endings.

    This game plan concludes with Karn, the great creator.

    Regarding board control I use damn

    This is my deck list.


    //Manabase 21 slots

    5 swamp
    4 scrubland
    4 godless shrine
    4 silent clearing
    4 wasteland

    //Creatures 4 slots

    4 Timeless dragon

    //Planeswalker 4 slots

    4 Karn, the great creator

    //Spells 31 slots

    4 mishra's bauble

    3 nihil spellbomb
    4 swords to plowshares
    4 thoughtseize

    4 hymn to tourach
    4 Shadow of doubt

    4 vindicate
    4 damn

    //Sideboard 15 slots

    4 abolish

    4 orim's chant

    2 Phyrexian metamorph

    1 mycosynth lattice

    1 wurmcoil engine

    1 the Stone brain

    1 cityscape leveler

    1 nihil spellbomb
    Last edited by Galad Arnor; 08-02-2023 at 02:29 AM.

  4. #6364

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Put up a few decent FNM performances in the last month. 3-1 and 4-0. Took out an Opposition Agent and a Plague Engineer main for 2 Orcish Bowmasters. And yesterday tried a Triumph of Saint Katherine (it replaced a Gurmag Angler).

    -Didn't see Triumph at all yesterday. Figured I'd give her a shot. A resilient card with lifelink that could be cast for 2 mana. Awkard if I have to cast it for 5 but I do that already for Batterskull a fair bit.
    -Bowmasters has been really good. Most people are smart enough to not Brainstorm blindly when I have 2 open mana unless they really need to. And even though Death and Taxes doesn't draw extra cards (outside of maybe Palace Jailer), it's been a house vs them. But there are matchups where it's kinda meh. Such as vs Initiative and most stompy decks.
    -Bob has still been ok so far. lol. Only died once to an opposing Bowmasters so far. Unfortunately, there's not a good Bob substitute. Thought about Call of the Ring, but not quite good enough although I still might try one.
    -Lion Sash has been really good. Got it as big as a 7/7. I'm always partial to Graveyard hate and the fact it's tutorable too is nice.
    -Karn's Sylex continues to get people. I think I've had 3 opponents not respond to Karn's Sylex by using their fetchlands.

    -Going to 3 Chrome Mox and 22 lands (it was 21 lands before) has been much better for me since I run quite a few 3 drops. Very rarely has my Castle Lochtwains came into play tapped. Only once or twice. And the card draw has been huge.


    Galad. If the gameplan is mana denial, perhaps a Karn's Sylex or 2 could work. I've been liking it for removal, mana denial, good vs force etc. and this is in a deck that plays fetches. Your list could run it risk free.

  5. #6365

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Thank you for your reply. There's no need for karn's sylex anymore, because now I've replaced the fetches with mishra's bauble and the deck is better performing. Want to see the list? Now I make heavy denial. It had no sense to play mishra's bauble with more then 18 lands. Now I play 17. Also karn trasnsforms opponent's planeswalkers (and lands) into creatures and i can destroy them with STP and damn.

    For drowing you could test Sorin the mirthless, it's stronger then prismatic ending.
    Last edited by Galad Arnor; 08-06-2023 at 05:14 PM.

  6. #6366

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Galad Arnor View Post
    Thank you for your reply. There's no need for karn's sylex anymore, because now I've replaced the fetches with mishra's bauble and the deck is better performing. Want to see the list? Now I make heavy denial. It had no sense to play mishra's bauble with more then 18 lands. Now I play 17. Also karn trasnsforms opponent's planeswalkers (and lands) into creatures and i can destroy them with STP and damn.

    For drowing you could test Sorin the mirthless, it's stronger then prismatic ending.
    Yeah sure. It's always interesting to see different takes on the deck.

  7. #6367

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I've played around with BW Staff brews. Staff could be a viable card engine instead of Bob, giving you a chump blocker instead of life loss liability.

    Bowmasters are a decent hatecard and token engine.

    Maybe something like this


    //Mana: 24
    3 Chrome Mox
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Prismatic Vista
    4 Scrubland
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Castle Ardenvale
    3 Wasteland

    //Creatures: 13
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Orcish Bowmasters
    3 Dauthi Voidwalker
    3 Sedgemoor Witch

    //Artifacts: 7
    4 Staff of the Storyteller
    1 Lion Sash
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Kaldra Compleat

    //Spells: 16
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 March of Otherworldly Light
    2 Sheoldred's Edict
    1 Kaya's Guile
    1 Sevinne's Reclamation

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Nihil Spellbomb
    2 Deafening Silence
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Serenity
    2 Plague Engineer
    1 Tourach, Dread Cantor
    1 Torpor Orb
    1 Fracture
    1 Sudden Edict
    1 Serra the Benevolent


    Advantages of Staff over Bob:
    • Dies to less
    • When it does die, it trades positively with removal (leaves behind 1/1).
    • Can play on 3 mana so it always trades positively with removal (draw card in response), while Bob can die before the draw
    • No life loss. Can't suicide you.
    • Removes CMC restrictions for deckbuilding
    • Chump block mode can block big flyers like Murktide and Marit Lage
    • Pitches to March/Solitude


    Cons of Staff:
    • Uses more mana, especially white mana
    • Harder to get multiple draws out of it
    • Shut off by effects like Needle/Ouphe
    • Draw stopped by Hullbreacher (but not Narset)



    Ways to make tokens to trigger Staff:
    Bowmasters
    Stoneforge -> Kaldra
    Sedgemoor + spell
    Kaya's Guile
    Sevinne's -> Staff/Bowmaster/Sedgemoor
    Castle Ardenvale
    Serra
    List looks awesome with one caveat.

    Imo, the scam reanimate troll package is very strong here and a better alternative to cabal therapy with a few slots freed up by cutting some of the 1/2 ofs.

    Also, you are essentially using a two card combo (Sedgmemoor Witch + Staff) to draw a card each turn, Dark Confidant or The One Ring also draw cards by themselves.

    Those freed slots could instead be used to play a powerful one sided hate bear like Opposition Agent (swapping with Plague Engineer or anticombo hate card from the board for certain metas/matchups).

  8. #6368

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Dark Confidant is so bad to play these days with Orcish Bowmasters around. LOL, even before bowmasters hardly anyone played Bob anymore. I've cut down to 2 bobs atm. Replaced one with a Stoneforge Mystic (back to 4 Mystics now) and the other with....Mindblade Render. Yep, desparate times. And believe me, I looked up every 2 mana Bob Variant....and they are all crappy.

    B1. Azra Warrior. 1/3. Whenever one of your opponents is dealt damage by a warrior, you draw a card and lose 1 life. So it's kind of like a bad Shadowmage Infiltrator except that it has no evasion and is 1 mana cheaper. I did happen to look up the Warrior type in black and white creatures. I've only tried out 2 of them before, Gatekeeper of Malakir and Triumph of Saint Katherine. Mindblade Render doesn't immediately die to a Bowmasters but attacking into a flash bowmaster is almost just as bad as they can trade for your render, you don't draw a card and they are left with either the Orc Army or the Bowmaster.

    Tried it out a few times and it hasn't been the worst. Since I play an insane amount of removal I've been able to clear the path for the Mindblade Render to connect and draw me a card. Had it versus Painter and Maverick and was able to draw 5 cards Against painter and 3 against maverick before they found a Swords to Plowshares.

  9. #6369

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkin View Post
    Dark Confidant is so bad to play these days with Orcish Bowmasters around. LOL, even before bowmasters hardly anyone played Bob anymore. I've cut down to 2 bobs atm. Replaced one with a Stoneforge Mystic (back to 4 Mystics now) and the other with....Mindblade Render. Yep, desparate times. And believe me, I looked up every 2 mana Bob Variant....and they are all crappy.
    Breaks my heart, but I think Bob´s gonna go where hypnotic spectre, vampire nighthawk and nantuko shade went...

  10. #6370
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Bob's dead. Call of the Ring or Staff of the Storyteller are the 2cmc draw engines that are still competitive.

    Mindblade Render seems pretty bad, maybe better than other Bob variants but not great either.

    BW Scam is quite competitive, but it's far enough from Deadguy that it should be a distinct deck.

    I'd look into Staff more.

    Staffguy Ale

    //CORE: 47
    //Lands: 21
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Prismatic Vista
    4 Scrubland
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains
    1 Karakas
    4 Wasteland

    //Creatures: 11
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Dauthi Voidwalker

    //Artifacts: 7
    4 Staff of the Storyteller
    1 Lion Sash
    1 Batterskull
    1 Kaldra Compleat

    //Disruption: 8
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    That leaves 13 flex slots which could include the 22nd land, more removal, more discard, Grief scam package, PWs, a token package, card draw. Ex:
    Prismatic Ending
    March of Otherworldly Light
    Hymn to Tourach
    Sheoldred's Edict
    Sudden Edict
    Kaya's Guile
    Kaya, Orzhov Usurper
    Serra the Benevolent
    Bitterblossom
    Castle Ardenvale
    Timeless Dragon
    Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
    Grief
    Reanimate
    Sevinne's Reclamation
    Sedgemoor Witch
    Monastery Mentor
    Cabal Therapy
    Cling to Dust
    Call of the Ring
    The One Ring

    There are many potential directions to go with the other cards, but those first 47 seem like auto-includes if building with Staff instead.
    Last edited by FTW; 11-17-2023 at 09:28 PM.

  11. #6371
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    I've been experimenting with Staff Bowmaster brews and decided to splash red:


    //Lands: 20
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Arid Mesa
    3 Scrubland
    3 Plateau
    2 Badlands
    1 Plains
    1 Mountain
    1 Swamp
    1 Karakas

    //Spells: 17
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Prismatic Ending
    2 Cling to Dust
    2 Forth Eorlingas!
    1 Kaya's Guile

    //Creatures: 11
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    3 Timeless Dragon

    //Artifacts: 7
    4 Staff of the Storyteller
    1 Lion Sash
    1 Batterskull
    1 Kaldra Compleat

    //Enchantments: 4
    4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker

    //Planeswalkers: 1
    1 Comet, Stellar Pup


    Tokens are all tier 1 cards:
    Bowmasters
    Stoneforge -> Germ
    Fable
    Forth Eorlingas!
    Comet
    Timeless eternalized

    Staff should have the potential to draw a lot of cards, but none of the enablers are bad without Staff. Other card draw comes from Fable and the Monarch. So you don't need Bob, aren't fully dependent on Staff, and aren't that weak to Bowmaster. But T2 Staff does nicely curve into T3 Fable, Forth!, or Bowmasters.

    Red also improves sideboard options and allows Prismatic Ending, although the mana is less stable.
    Last edited by FTW; 11-20-2023 at 12:41 PM.

  12. #6372

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Interesting idea FTW. The land count seems a bit low to me though. I've seen non blue Scam lists run 20 lands but they have 4 trolls to help out. I see there are dragons in there but you'll probably get quite a few 1 land hands imo.

    Sadly, you are right about Bob, although stubborn me is still trying. Melded my Dead guy Ale list with Scam. Went 2-2-1 with it. Made a few mistakes with it but it felt alright. Feels so much better vs Initiative decks, being able to take their Chaos of Caves Adventurer and then reanimate it.

  13. #6373
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    22 lands might be better. I got manascrewed in a few games, especially against Wastelands.

    Edit:
    +1 Bloodstained Mire
    +1 Castle Ardenvale

    -1 Lion Sash (move to SB)
    -1 Fable?
    Last edited by FTW; 11-23-2023 at 06:38 AM.

  14. #6374

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Fable, sure you can cut one. I wouldn't cut Lion Sash. I find it to be very good. Had it as big as an 8/8 in games.

  15. #6375

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Hi.

    The metagame Is very changed and this could be a God deck to build. But I wont to play It black based style.

    This Is my deck list


    //Manabase 18 slots

    4 Marsh flats
    2 swamp
    4 scrubland
    4 wasteland
    4 godless shrine

    //Creatures 15 slots

    4 stoneforge Mystic
    4 orcish bowmasters
    4 timeless dragon
    3 bitterblossom

    //Equipment and artifacts 7 slots

    4 mishra's bauble
    1 kaldra compleat
    1 batterskull
    1 umezawa's jitte

    //Spells 20 slots

    4 Thoughtseize
    4 swords to plowshares

    4 hymn to tourach
    4 sinkhole

    4 vindicate

    //Sideboard 15 slots

    4 orim's chant
    4 nihil spellbomb
    4 dauthi voidwalker
    2 toxic Deluge
    1 drach'nyen



    Bitterblossom Is a solution to murktide.
    In side orim's chant play well vs storm, counter deck and terminus. Drach'nyen Is a solution at Emrakul.
    Last edited by Galad Arnor; 02-02-2024 at 04:55 PM.

  16. #6376
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    I like your strategy!

    The manabase could be improved. There's no reason to lose life to Godless Shrine in Legacy.


    //Manabase 20 slots
    4 Marsh flats
    4 Prismatic Vista
    4 Scrubland
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    4 Wasteland

    You may want even more than 20 lands with Wasteland, but that should be the minimum.

    Otherwise the deck looks strong with Hymn and Vindicate.

    Karakas is already a solution to Emrakul.

    Bitterblossom is weak these days. You can beat Murktide with Sheoldred's Edict, Swords to Plowshares, Vindicate... easy matchup.

  17. #6377

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I like your strategy!

    The manabase could be improved. There's no reason to lose life to Godless Shrine in Legacy.


    //Manabase 20 slots
    4 Marsh flats
    4 Prismatic Vista
    4 Scrubland
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    4 Wasteland

    You may want even more than 20 lands with Wasteland, but that should be the minimum.

    Otherwise the deck looks strong with Hymn and Vindicate.

    Karakas is already a solution to Emrakul.

    Bitterblossom is weak these days. You can beat Murktide with Sheoldred's Edict, Swords to Plowshares, Vindicate... easy matchup.
    Manabase Is good, I have 8 manafixer. Godless shrine Is necessary for timeless dragon. This Is a suicide. Plains? The deck no Need, it's a black based. About bblossom, stp and vindicate are not sufficient to contain murktide, marit lage, etc. I have perfectioned my deck list. I removed bowmasters becouse the deck don't wont remain open, also bowmasters have no sinergy with damn Who I play in side. So I prefear bblossom. I sobstituited mishra's bauble with cling to dust 'couse Is recursive and manabase have no problems. If I had problems remove Lion sash and duress for lands, but there isn't This necessity. This Is the new deck list.



    //Creatures 12 slots

    4 stoneforge Mystic
    4 timeless dragon
    4 bitterblossom

    //Equipment 4 slots

    1 kaldra compleat
    1 batterskull
    1 umezawa's jitte
    1 Lion sash

    //Spells 26 slots

    4 swords to plowshares
    4 cling to dust

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 duress

    4 hymn to tourach
    4 sinkhole

    4 vindicate

    //Manabase 18 slots

    4 Marsh flats
    4 scrubland
    4 godless shrine
    4 wasteland
    2 swamp

    //Sideboard 15 slots

    4 orim's chant
    4 damn
    4 nihil spellbomb
    2 toxic Deluge
    1 drach'nyen

  18. #6378
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    What if opponent has Blood Moon or Back to Basics? Magus of the Moon?

    Need Plains to cast answers.

    What if opponent uses Price of Progress after you suicide to Godless Shrine, Bitterblossom, Thoughtseize? Concede and go home? Basic land is good.

    With 4 Scrubland + 2 Plains, Timeless Dragon does not need Godless Shrine. If you draw all Plains, cast the 5/5 for 3WW.

    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Prismatic Vista
    4 Scrubland
    3 Swamp
    2 Plains
    4 Wasteland
    = 15 black sources, still black-based!

    Easy to cast Hymn to Tourach, Damn, etc.

  19. #6379

    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    What if opponent has Blood Moon or Back to Basics? Magus of the Moon?

    Need Plains to cast answers.

    What if opponent uses Price of Progress after you suicide to Godless Shrine, Bitterblossom, Thoughtseize? Concede and go home? Basic land is good.

    With 4 Scrubland + 2 Plains, Timeless Dragon does not need Godless Shrine. If you draw all Plains, cast the 5/5 for 3WW.

    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Prismatic Vista
    4 Scrubland
    3 Swamp
    2 Plains
    4 Wasteland
    = 15 black sources, still black-based!

    Easy to cast Hymn to Tourach, Damn, etc.
    Bblossom can go on side for bowmasters. Plains Is horrible in this deck, I tested, but in some things you are right. For Blood Moon there Is no solution. A corrected list could be this:



    //Creatures 8 slots

    4 stoneforge Mystic
    4 timeless dragon

    //Equipment 4 slots

    1 Kaldra compleat
    1 batterskull
    1 umezawa's jitte
    1 Lion sash

    //Spells 29 slots

    4 swords to plowshares
    3 cling to dust

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 duress

    4 hymn to tourach
    4 sinkhole
    4 damn

    4 vindicate

    //Manabase 19 slots

    4 Marsh flats
    4 wasteland
    4 scrubland
    2 godless shrine
    4 swamp
    1 plains

    //Sideboard 15 slots

    4 orim's chant
    4 nihil spellbomb
    4 orcish bowmasters
    2 toxic Deluge
    1 drach'nyen


    Edit. the deck draws little, it doesn't swarm, so it is preferable to play damn mains and bowmasters in the side
    Last edited by Galad Arnor; 02-10-2024 at 09:53 AM.

  20. #6380
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    Re: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    I decided I wanted to try and play Land Tax in Legacy and this is what I came up with:

    4 Orcish Bowmasters
    4 Samwise the Stouthearted
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Solitude
    3 Stalactite Stalker

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Land Tax
    3 Raven's Crime
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Kaldra Compleat
    1 Andúril, Flame of the West

    4 Scrubland
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Wasteland
    1 Windswept Heath
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire
    2 Karakas
    4 Swamp
    3 Plains

    Sideboard:
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Deafening Silence
    2 Stony Silence
    2 Serenity
    2 Force of Despair
    2 Plague Engineer

    The Stalactite Stalkers are new and replaced a pair of Reanimates and one Call of the Ring I was trying out (it wasn't very good), so I'm not sure how good they are yet. I also just swapped in the Takenuma to replace a Castle Locthwain that was underperfoming, so we'll see how good that is too. We have a Legacy league here in Milwaukee every Tuesday and this has been performing pretty well and is a ton of fun, I'm going to keep working on it for a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by danpo View Post
    At minimum I'd say it outclasses Beetleback Chief.

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