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Thread: [Deck] Dark Depths

  1. #141

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Is that a new spoiler? i'm seeing just Opal Palace as a land on the spoiler at MTG Salvation.

  2. #142

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...822#post758822

    Basically this lands allow you to sac the token to deal 20 damage, so no more sword/terminus in resp, and it is a land so you can fetch it.

    Might see play as a two-three off.

    All the cards are uncounterable.

  3. #143

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Opal Palace is the land spoilered so far and it's not like you are saying (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1381982431). Can you give a link or source to the land you are talking to?

    EDIT: LOL those lands posted by Kayradis are CLEARLY fakes, he was just joking, really man...

  4. #144
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Those lands are mockups; the lack of artist signature and collector's number give them away (also the my little pony crossover references).

  5. #145

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Oh sheet i thouhgt it was real .... my bad

  6. #146

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Big tornament about 50 players, went 4-2.
    Beating BUG shardless 2-1
    Maverick twice 2-1 2-1 (one vial version and the other GSZ version)
    Random 'meule'
    and losing to B/R reanimator 2-0 and to stoneblade 2-0.

    I feel like I could have beat stoneblade, but didn't see my pyroclasme and he overhelms me with flying blockers (souls+strix) while I had a shroud marit lage (game one).
    Lost game 2 to restoration angel with sword of feast and famine found the seal of primordium too late.

    The changes I made were the followings -2 into the north -1 steely resolve -1forest +1 kessig wolf run +3 phyrexian crusader.
    Crusaders were very strong against maverick, and I won one game thanks to poison (with kessig).
    Still not 100% sure they need to be play, it was a choice against swords.decks, (death and taxes+maverick+miracle).
    The combo is pretty consistant but hate is huge.

    I am now testing slaughter games in sb for the miracle matchup.

  7. #147

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Heyall,
    Here's what I've been working on for quite a while, and will be running this weekend as SCG Indy:

    1 snow forest
    3 ancient tomb
    4 city of brass
    4 gemstone mine
    4 stage
    4 depths
    1 okina
    1 pendelhaven
    4 scrying
    4 pithing needle
    4 expedition map
    4 into da north
    4 not of this world
    4 crop rotation
    4 esg
    3 ssg
    4 petal
    3 fling

    Board
    1 tabernacle of pendrell vale
    1 bojuka bog
    1 sejiri steppe
    4 seal of primordium
    4 trinisphere
    4 ashen rider (or sphere of resistance)

    Anyone else going this weekend/representing?

  8. #148
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    This is an updated version I'm testing. The white has been removed for blue. Blue seemed like a good choice because it provides cantrips to replace dark confidant. Dark confidant just gets hit with all the removal because there are no other creatures to hit with it. Often times he doesn't even draw me a card because he dies. Rarely will a brainstorm / ponder get countered.

    another big change I've made is adding counter spells in blue. The cantrips support the force of will and they allow you to have game against combo decks like ant that you would otherwise have to race.

    I've cut the basic lands from the deck because pithing needle stops wasteland and you're not really worried about them wastelanding a bayou or something. They have been replaced with ghost quarters. Ghost quarters is favored over wasteland because you can use it under pithing needle and the replacement land it provides is irrelevant. Quarters targets karakas and maze mainly and can be tutored for with crop rotation.

    You'll notice there are 4 ponders and 3 brainstorms. That is not a mistake. Since the deck run's mire's guiles you want more ways to shuffle your deck than anything because it runs fewer fetches than most decks.

    Ratchet bomb/powder keg have been put in to replace deed because they come down a turn earlier which is huge against elves and goblins and belcher. Keg doesn't kill mire's guile but it doesn't kill planes walker either so i haven't figured out which I prefer. I think i might be leaning towards ratchet bomb cause you can add counters at eot when you have more information. It also hit Blood moon which is a complete blow out. But now with ratchet bomb you can kill blood moon even after its in play.

    Other considerations now include stifle, not of this world, and a whole new sideboard. The white version had combo protection in the form of canonist and thalia. Now that i have that combo protection main i can cut them and revamp the sideboard.

    I've cut the discard from the deck because its subpar compared to having counter spells. The reason is that even though i discard something important from their hand they can always draw into something on their turn and it happens more often than i'd like to experience.

    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Powder Keg
    3 Rite of Consumption
    3 Pithing Needle

    4 Crop Rotation
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Vampire Hexmage

    4 Ponder
    3 Brainstorm
    3 Mirri's Guile

    4 Spell Pierce
    4 Force of Will


    1 Tropical Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Karakas
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Bayou
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Ghost Quarter
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  9. #149
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    I'd love to see Intuition and 1 Life from the Loam so you can get the Loam / DD / Stage package for some inevitability.

  10. #150
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    I'd love to see Intuition and 1 Life from the Loam so you can get the Loam / DD / Stage package for some inevitability.
    what do you suggest gets cut?
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  11. #151
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    what do you suggest gets cut?
    I'd probably say the Mirri's Guiles maybe?

    I think Living Wish also really works well for the DD combo since it gets any of the missing combo pieces you might need.

    Let me spend some time tomorrow brewing and see what I can come up with. I've had an idea on the back burner for awhile but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

  12. #152
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    I'd probably say the Mirri's Guiles maybe?

    I think Living Wish also really works well for the DD combo since it gets any of the missing combo pieces you might need.

    Let me spend some time tomorrow brewing and see what I can come up with. I've had an idea on the back burner for awhile but just haven't gotten around to it yet.
    heres the thing. intuition for life form the loam and / living wish both improve consistency but slow the deck down considerably.

    I've tested living wish quite a bit, and it produces a t4 token like 90+% of the time, but it will never improve consistency making a turn 2 token. Mirri's guile does and it helps get other answers like rite of consumption. Intuition id say is very similar to living wish.

    I'm not saying that they are bad but they are slower so you'll have to be prepared to have games last 4-5 turns instead of 2-4.

    Something that your post made me interested in was cutting black and running red. It would be GUR, red for punishing fires, green for living wish / crop rotation, blue for control against combo decks. Red gives you access to fling which functions like rite of consumption. It also has pyroclasm for fending off elves goblins and Death and taxes. Punishing fires are huge help to a lot of the matches id imagine. This version could also run gamble
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    Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi

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  13. #153
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Alright!

    This actually had me up pretty late last night because I couldn't sleep (hopped up on caffeine and brewing juices)!

    Here's what I ended up with:

    // Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

    // Lands
    1 [7E] Plains (1)
    1 [WWK] Sejiri Steppe
    3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
    1 [COM] Bojuka Bog
    1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
    4 [ON] Windswept Heath
    3 [CS] Dark Depths
    1 [M13] Forest (3)
    3 [MPR] Wasteland
    1 [LG] Karakas
    4 [R] Savannah
    3 [DGM] Thespian's Stage

    // Creatures
    4 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
    1 [JU] Sylvan Safekeeper
    1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
    4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
    3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
    3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
    4 [FNM] Mother of Runes
    1 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman

    // Spells
    4 [JU] Living Wish
    4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
    2 [MR] Sylvan Scrying
    3 [UL] Crop Rotation

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 1 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
    SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 2 [M13] Ground Seal
    SB: 1 [ISD] Fiend Hunter
    SB: 1 [CS] Dark Depths
    SB: 1 [COM] Bojuka Bog
    SB: 1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
    SB: 1 [MPR] Wasteland
    SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
    SB: 1 [JU] Sylvan Safekeeper
    SB: 1 [DGM] Thespian's Stage

    So currently, I've gone with a straight GW version. Here's the pros & cons as I see it:

    Cons:
    - Not as explosive as the black Hexmage versions (at fastest, it's a T4 kill vs a T3 kill)
    - Black offers nice anti-combo / combo protection options with hand disruption
    - Doesn't offer a Rite of Consumption / Fling option

    Pros:
    - Being focused on the DD / Stage kill means every card that tutors for a land now works for either half of the combo
    - Less susceptible to Wasteland / Stifle being a blowout (Stifle only temporarily stops our plan for a turn only if they Stifle the Stage activation, Wasteland only removes 1 of the combo pieces as opposed to both being a 2 for 1 on the Hexmage plan)
    - Mother of Runes / Safekeeper offers protection so the Rite of Consumption / Fling option may not be necessary.
    - Backup game plan of Knight beatdown in case we can't assemble the combo somehow.
    - Sneaky Show matchup is greatly improved with the inclusion of Knights and land searching for Karakas.
    - Wayfarer / Knight can find the entire combo on their own.

    The maindeck & sideboard can use work, of course, but I think it's an interesting direction to go. Ground Seal in the board is there to give some more yard hate as well as protect you from Extirpate / Surgical effects. I'm not certain it's needed though?

    The Teegs over Thalias in the main help protect from FoW as well as hurts your land searching spells less.

    I have a lot of redundant Wishboard pieces simply because I'm not certain which direction I wanted to go so I figured I'd just play a bunch of silver bullets.

    Some potential improvements:
    - I'd love to add black to add Hexmage / Urborg without hurting our mana searching consistency, but I'm not sure we can do it. Black also lets us play Dark Confidant and hand disruption too.
    - A Cavern of Souls for Humans seems really good.
    - I'm not certain if the Sejiri Steppe is too cute as way for KoTR to protect Merit Lage from StP.

  14. #154
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    Alright!



    Cons:
    - Not as explosive as the black Hexmage versions (at fastest, it's a T4 kill vs a T3 kill)
    - Black offers nice anti-combo / combo protection options with hand disruption
    - Doesn't offer a Rite of Consumption / Fling option

    Pros:
    - Being focused on the DD / Stage kill means every card that tutors for a land now works for either half of the combo
    - Less susceptible to Wasteland / Stifle being a blowout (Stifle only temporarily stops our plan for a turn only if they Stifle the Stage activation, Wasteland only removes 1 of the combo pieces as opposed to both being a 2 for 1 on the Hexmage plan)
    - Mother of Runes / Safekeeper offers protection so the Rite of Consumption / Fling option may not be necessary.
    - Backup game plan of Knight beatdown in case we can't assemble the combo somehow.
    - Sneaky Show matchup is greatly improved with the inclusion of Knights and land searching for Karakas.
    - Wayfarer / Knight can find the entire combo on their own.

    The maindeck & sideboard can use work, of course, but I think it's an interesting direction to go. Ground Seal in the board is there to give some more yard hate as well as protect you from Extirpate / Surgical effects. I'm not certain it's needed though?

    The Teegs over Thalias in the main help protect from FoW as well as hurts your land searching spells less.

    I have a lot of redundant Wishboard pieces simply because I'm not certain which direction I wanted to go so I figured I'd just play a bunch of silver bullets.

    Some potential improvements:
    - I'd love to add black to add Hexmage / Urborg without hurting our mana searching consistency, but I'm not sure we can do it. Black also lets us play Dark Confidant and hand disruption too.
    - A Cavern of Souls for Humans seems really good.
    - I'm not certain if the Sejiri Steppe is too cute as way for KoTR to protect Merit Lage from StP.
    rite of consumption / fling is preferable only because it solves all of the issues regarding targeting and the blockers. As you play test you'll notice that while Mom can give it colored protection and push through blocking tokens your token is still open to karakas / maze of ith. Sylvan safe keeper solves those problems but doesn't allow it to push through tokens. Because you have a lot of redundancy you may find that you have what you need in the right situation.

    White has good anti combo such as thalia, and canonist, and with your heavy creature presence you should be fine. When i built my aggro version of the deck it was similar but I scrapped it cause I'm a combo player and got annoyed with how grindy some of the match ups felt. I felt like blue had more to offer in terms of combo protection / finding the combo.

    if you don't run black senjiri is probably fine, but I ran black and it got cut.

    If you do choose to run black, -3 canopy -1 senjiri -2 savannah -1 wasteland +4 urborg +2 verdant catacombs, +1 bayou

    you may find bojuka bog to be underwhelming since the decks you want it against are almost as susceptible to karakas. While bojuka helps your dredge matchup your main deck teeg probably helps just as much. Dredge doesn't have much interaction with you either and your knights are big enough to block their tokens. I think you'd find that 1 md ooze does better than the bog especially if you choose not to run black.

    IDK if you have access to cockatrice but i'd be willing to help you test on that if you wanted.
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  15. #155
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Thanks for the thoughts!

    Yeah, Rite / Fling does get around having to attack, but then you get blown out if it gets countered, which I wasn't a fan of. The GW version I threw together is definitely grindier and takes more time setting up protection before going off.

    I don't use Cockatrice, but thanks for the offer! I mainly just enjoy theorizing about tweaking different decks and seeing how far they can go.

    I'm surprised no one has really tried pushing the Thespian's Stage / DD combo yet since it's much harder to stop than the old Hexmage / DD combo. I guess people are still into attacking with 3/1's as opposed to 20/20's. With how much land searching out there, I actually had to cut a bunch of tutors simply because there are just way too many good ones (Expedition Map didn't even make the cut!).

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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    Thanks for the thoughts!

    Yeah, Rite / Fling does get around having to attack, but then you get blown out if it gets countered, which I wasn't a fan of. The GW version I threw together is definitely grindier and takes more time setting up protection before going off.

    I don't use Cockatrice, but thanks for the offer! I mainly just enjoy theorizing about tweaking different decks and seeing how far they can go.

    I'm surprised no one has really tried pushing the Thespian's Stage / DD combo yet since it's much harder to stop than the old Hexmage / DD combo. I guess people are still into attacking with 3/1's as opposed to 20/20's. With how much land searching out there, I actually had to cut a bunch of tutors simply because there are just way too many good ones (Expedition Map didn't even make the cut!).
    Its not that no one is pushing the combo, its just they are putting that combo in a lands shell.

    Any way what do you think about the following deck list that just won a 77 person event.

    4x Vampire Hexmage
    4x Crop Rotation
    4x Punishing Fire
    3x Life from the Loam
    4x Exploration
    4x Manabond
    4x Mox Diamond

    1x Bojuka Bog
    1x Glacial Chasm
    1x Misty Rainforest
    1x Savannah
    1x The Tabenacle at pendrell Vale
    1x Tranquil Thicket
    1x Verdant Catacombs
    1x Windswepth Heath
    2x Taiga
    3x Maze of Ith
    4x Dark Depths
    4x Grove of the Burnwillows
    4x Rishadan Port
    4x Thespian's Stage
    4x Wasteland
    4x Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth

    Sideboard
    2x Cotv
    1x Cruciable of Worlds
    3x Ethersworn Canonist
    3x Seal of Primordium
    4x Sphere of Resistance
    2x Trinisphere

    Thoughts?

  17. #157
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Man, was there no combo in that meta? Even with that sideboard, he's probably losing almost all his Game 1's and the G2 / G3's don't seem that guaranteed against fast combo...

  18. #158
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    I have no idea, but I bet the deck makes a monster on turn three pretty consistently. Having loam in the deck makes mulliganing much easier.

  19. #159
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Esper3k View Post
    Man, was there no combo in that meta? Even with that sideboard, he's probably losing almost all his Game 1's and the G2 / G3's don't seem that guaranteed against fast combo...
    agree, i can't play any deck unless it has game against combo decks. You are giving up 1/3rd of your match ups. I really don't see how that did so well in a tournament.
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  20. #160
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    I've been testing a lot and came up with this list

    1 Underground Sea
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
    4 Swamp
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Thespian's Stage

    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Pithing Needle
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Thougthseize
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Vampire Hexmage
    2 Crucible of Worlds

    Sideboard
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    4 Engineered Plague
    2 Nihil Spellbomb
    4 Surgical Extraction
    3 Massacre

    I've been playing this deck online and I've had a lot of success with it. It is linear and focused, with only one game plan. With Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Pithing Needle, and Hymn to Tourach, there is a lot of disruption. Chrome Mox and Dark Ritual provide acceleration, with Dark Ritual usually being removed for Chrome Mox when both are drawn. Dark Confidant and Crucible of Worlds provide resilience against opposing disruption and are great for drawing out answers from the opponent. I run the full four of each combo piece because there is only Sensei's Divining Top to manipulate the library.

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