[Primer] Elves!

[resum]

the final triumph of daze elves!

[AznSeal]

At x=3, it costs the same as the other nissa but is free draw every turn.

[Flutschi]

At x=3, it costs the same as the other nissa but is free draw every turn.

Well it costs blue, but other than that yeah.. and it will most likely always put something on the board ^^

i will try it out here localy in a chaos elves shell.... we will see..

[Doneval]

I was thinking about the place of elves in the current meta filled with BUG/4c/Leovold decks and how Chaos Elves seems like it's a better fit.

I always read how Chaos Elves and NO Elves are kind of separate decks, but would it make sense to have a Chaos Elves main, but with something like 3 Natural Order and a Progenitus in the sideboard? That way, for the decks where we want to have access to an early combo, we can transform into it.

Has someone tested something like that? Any thoughts about it? (I'm trying it right now on MTGO, but I'm pretty new to elves, so I'd love to hear the thoughts of those of you who have a lot more experience).

[Lemnear]

I was thinking about the place of elves in the current meta filled with BUG/4c/Leovold decks and how Chaos Elves seems like it's a better fit.

I always read how Chaos Elves and NO Elves are kind of separate decks, but would it make sense to have a Chaos Elves main, but with something like 3 Natural Order and a Progenitus in the sideboard? That way, for the decks where we want to have access to an early combo, we can transform into it.

Has someone tested something like that? Any thoughts about it? (I'm trying it right now on MTGO, but I'm pretty new to elves, so I'd love to hear the thoughts of those of you who have a lot more experience).

Imo it makes more sense to start G1 with a quick build and SB into a grindy one than the other way round. In game 2 & 3 its unlikely that you will surprise ANYONE if you have NO in your deck or are able to run over them by turn 3 and your opponent will sideboard for that case. Stealing G1 with NO is fine, but for the sb games, I would not try such.

[Flutschi]

I was thinking about the place of elves in the current meta filled with BUG/4c/Leovold decks and how Chaos Elves seems like it's a better fit.

I always read how Chaos Elves and NO Elves are kind of separate decks, but would it make sense to have a Chaos Elves main, but with something like 3 Natural Order and a Progenitus in the sideboard? That way, for the decks where we want to have access to an early combo, we can transform into it.

Has someone tested something like that? Any thoughts about it? (I'm trying it right now on MTGO, but I'm pretty new to elves, so I'd love to hear the thoughts of those of you who have a lot more experience).

What else is in the sideboard?

It seems to me that you dont have 4 flexspots somehow.

[abombdiggity]

Personally, I love having access to NO against the 4-C/BUG builds with Leovold. Sure, it's a little worse against their countermagic, but the soft countermagic they bring to the table can be minimized with some patience- it's really only FoW and postboard Invasive Surgeries/Flusterstorms I'm worried about. Leovold shuts down both Visionary shenanigans and Glimpse- having that "I win" button in natural order really helps if you're locked out of your card advantage engines.

Had a rough weekend at Worcester with a 1 MD Nissa build, my losses were to the mirror, GB Depths, and a lands player who topdecked his only out while I was threatening lethal (I had let a creature die to his t1 tabernacle so I could stay alive with DRS when he 20/20d, but he savagely ripped a Punishing Fire). Was 3-0 against miracles over the weekend, though- including Joe Losset on the Legends build, which was a hell of a match. Overall, I really like going more midrange with scooze/nissa etc, but it's been a lot weaker to the more fringe matchups that seem to be more popular in paper than online due to the higher costs of switching decks.

[Shagstaman]

...Overall, I really like going more midrange with scooze/nissa etc, but it's been a lot weaker to the more fringe matchups that seem to be more popular in paper than online due to the higher costs of switching decks.

1. Congrats on your wins vs miracles-- your MTGO grinding paid off in that respect! Sorry you didn't do as well overall tho.. you'll get there!
2. I feel like I've seen this exact scenario occur multiple times for friends and players I respect who test almost exclusively on MTGO. For standard, and to a lesser extent modern, I feel like MTGO is the single BEST tool for testing competitively. However, for Legacy, Vintage, Commander, etc...older formats with cards/decks that people are so invested into (either monetarily or emotionally), the paper/IRL meta game is soooo much different. I play pox, affinity, enchantress, uwx stoneblade, etc etc in paper tournaments...matchups you cannot prepare for on MTGO (I think..). The bottom line is that for testing vs "tier 1 brainstorm decks," MTGO is also a great tool...but when you get pwned by a seasoned DnT player (since ports are a gagillion dollars on mtgo) or some other more fringe deck pilot in paper, it feels real bad.

TL:DR--test paper magic as much as possible, because the mtgo meta is warped atm.
side note-- I think the team events and more exclusive events like invitationals etc would reflect the mtgo meta much more (since all the spikey grinders are the same people on mtgo)

Imo it makes more sense to start G1 with a quick build and SB into a grindy one than the other way round. In game 2 & 3 its unlikely that you will surprise ANYONE if you have NO in your deck or are able to run over them by turn 3 and your opponent will sideboard for that case. Stealing G1 with NO is fine, but for the sb games, I would not try such.

::nod::
This has been my md/sb strategy for about 3 years now? :D I think being able to just run people out of the gym in game 1 is super important. We can become what we need (faster or slower!) in sb games.

[abombdiggity]

I play pox, affinity, enchantress, uwx stoneblade, etc etc in paper tournaments...matchups you cannot prepare for on MTGO (I think..). The bottom line is that for testing vs "tier 1 brainstorm decks," MTGO is also a great tool...but when you get pwned by a seasoned DnT player (since ports are a gagillion dollars on mtgo) or some other more fringe deck pilot in paper, it feels real bad.

TL:DR--test paper magic as much as possible, because the mtgo meta is warped atm.
side note-- I think the team events and more exclusive events like invitationals etc would reflect the mtgo meta much more (since all the spikey grinders are the same people on mtgo)

Agreed- and it's one of the things that we all love about legacy- at GPs, I've played the gate, goblins, and enchantress all in the X-1 bracket. While I do understand the need to have a plan for both the "top 32 meta" of a GP and the random day one surprises, it really is a matchup lottery- one of the things I noticed about Nissa (which is why it was cut to a 1x in the MD, as well as leovold, amongst other reasons) is that it is just not very good in the non-mainstream matchups.

One thing I do notice about what these matchups have in common is that other than the combo decks, they're all very weak to NO and to a slightly lesser extent, progenitus. The more traditional elves builds, cutting all the spice and running the 4 ofs seems to end up usually finishing out better at bigger events. Definitely something I'll have to keep in mind as I prepare my list for Vegas.

[Shagstaman]

good points all around..... ...Vegas.

Seeya there I hope! :D I enjoy watching all my elvish brethren, especially when winning!

[Julian23]

Won a MKM Trial for Frankfurt today. Played a super straight forward list with 4x of each of the core Elves and a 1/1 split of Birchlore Rangers and Llanowar Elves. I think except for the Penndelhaven, that might be the same maindeck Jessup recently played at SCG. My SB was super-geared towards the local meta:

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Winter Orb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Progenitus

My matchups:

Miracles, 2-1 WIN
4c Loam, 2-1 WIN
GWb Maverick, 2-1 WIN
Food Chain, 2-0 WIN
Food Chain, 2-0 WIN
Food Chain, 2-0 WIN

Holly Food Chain, Batman. The deck is super popular in Germany right now and I knew there would once again be tons of it. I certainly enjoyed the super straightforward approach to the maindeck; most importantly because it made sideboarding much easier. When you play all this sweet/cute stuf fin the maindeck already, sideboarding often becomes way harder. A randomm thought I had during the tournament was how I would actually love to have more Phyrexian Revokers. If you manage to Surgical Swords to Plowshares vs Miracles, Revoker becomes a very real solution to JaceTMS.

[Flutschi]

Miracles, 2-1 WIN
4c Loam, 2-1 WIN
GWb Maverick, 2-1 WIN
Food Chain, 2-0 WIN
Food Chain, 2-0 WIN
Food Chain, 2-0 WIN

Do you remember what you boarded out?

[Julian23]

Against Food Chain:

-2 Heritage
-2 NS
-2 QR
-2 GoN
-1 GSZ

+4 Decay
+2 Grip
+2 Needle
+1 Revoker

[Julian23]

Finally finished my report about my Top8 finish at Eternal Weekend. Very detailed, lots of pictures and some puzzle-like crucial situations I found myself in. Really enjoyed writing this piece and I hope it's gonna provide some valuable insight to some of you!

http://itsjulian.com/eternalweekendtop8withelves/

[mistercakes]

Was the junk guy named Stephane(abyssal persecutor) and also had a demonic attorney watching over the match?

[Julian23]

I went to the PWP page to check, but it doesn't show my opponents' names for this tournament. Only thing I remember was that he was French.

[danyul]

Great report as usual, Julian! I read it this morning on the way to work.

Bummer to hear about that broken tooth. I also had some dental issues blowout my bank account recently. Hopefully you're still able to make it to GP Vegas. I'll be there but I'm not sure if I'll be on Elves just yet.

[dte]

Congratulations for another great performance and a much appreciated report.

Keep winning and writting!

[abombdiggity]

http://itsjulian.com/eternalweekendtop8withelves/

Congrats on the solid finish, I really appreciate the work you put in.

The play VS. GB Hexdepths is very interesting. Against many of the format's faster combo decks, we are forced into being more reactive, just because we're a little bit slower. Like you said- we do have to set the tone to some extent, so I like that you went for the more agressive line to set the tone of the match- at that point, unless he finds some gold (the combo or any of his SB hate- golgari charm/deluge/discard) you're golden, and a lot of it depends on his build- I've seen anything from Walking Ballista to Inquisition of Kozeliks coming out of Turbo Depths- all of which are very rough, but I do like the line of guaranteeing a win next turn over a more conservative line (GSZ into rec sage or Symbiote to gate visionary and hope to draw gas over your next turn cycle with 3 draws)- well played, the allure of killing sylvan library is real there.

[Tormod]

Finally finished my report about my Top8 finish at Eternal Weekend. Very detailed, lots of pictures and some puzzle-like crucial situations I found myself in. Really enjoyed writing this piece and I hope it's gonna provide some valuable insight to some of you!

http://itsjulian.com/eternalweekendtop8withelves/

Love this quote from you:

"You sometimes get so busy with all the cute, tricky and grindy stuff Elves can do, you tend to forget that in most matchups, you are the one who knocks. You are the danger. A lot of your opponent are sitting their shitting their pants while all you are worrying about is how to draw an additional card from Elvish Visionary on the next turn. There are situations where you have to force yourself to live up to your potential: be the danger your opponent sees"