how does nether void push elves in a winning position against the decks you are mentioning so that it does not lose its resiliancy to "go off". it feels like most arguments are that nether void is so powerful you play it along side a tribal deck with caverns and your beat some decks. this sounds like im rambling but i am having trouble wrapping my head around this as a better card..... its like the chaos version of NO but still takes up those slots that make chaos so chaosOriginally Posted by JermStudDog
oh i understand why. i was talking with my lgs owner and he was like its gone down, but.... before he said another word i know how good they are. i break it down that turn 3 u can with Natural Order/glimpse, and turn 2 with craddle. its bonkers
I've been playing a single disfigure in the board for the longest time, fatal push takes that slot for me.
Tusk up.
(Not so) Current Decks: GB Elves, GW Maverick, GWb Maverick, LED Dredge, ANT, TES, Jund Storm.
I've had my share of T2 kills w/o Cradle. You'll still need to Glimpse before going off b/c you'll have one creature w/o summoning sickness on T2 and by the time you need to drop your second land odds are Cradle'll just make 2 mana instead of the 1 your Forest'd make.
Cradle mostly makes it (a lot) easier to pull off the T3(+) kill out of the blue. It has very little to do with your ability to make a T2 kill.
Fatal Push can't touch Wren's Run Packmaster.
/edit: it can!
Last edited by Julian23; 02-10-2017 at 07:44 AM.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
I don't get it
plz explain
Special Forces Combo Elves
Julian was wrong. It was hammertime all along!
Because Elves is very often 2 plans mashed together into 1 deck. While Elves is often called a combo deck, it's quite bad at pulling off said combo and is not resilient at all when it comes to executing that plan at all. The resilience of the deck comes from plan B where you just wear your opponent down with 1/1 beats and evasive creatures, extending the shelf-life of these obviously outclassed elves well beyond what they deserve to be capable of executing, maybe drawing a card to kick the combo off again, but very often just drawing more elves to throw at your opponent and overwhelm their answers.
Chaos Elves already leans more heavily on plan B by simply cutting Natural Order. Nether Void pushes plan B a bit more by slowing down EVERYTHING that isn't a "tribal beats" plan after you've already got a toe-hold on the board. I'm not saying this is the future of the deck, but I think it is definitely worth exploring.
isn't this more or less what Teluin had built and reported on?
-rob
oh yeah... i have a play set of glimpses coming in. i cant wait to play with deck once those peices come in. i have everything but bayous and craddles for the deck. wifey wont let me spend that much on one card.. lol
I just won the Legacy Challenge on Magic Online
Check out videos of all 10 rounds on my website!
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
Congrats! You played against my podcast co-host round 1- he said he blinked, and he was dead.
I played a very similar list, although with a tropical island and MD Edric. Picked up two early losses to ANT- both won games through an early Leovold on my end, and my third loss came against Reid Duke style bug's triple marsh casualties in the deciding game.
How did you like the 3rd Thoughtseize? I opted for the second Nissa in that slot, but have been waffling on it's impact- sometimes I'll drop a nissa and it's immediately outclassed (and almost any elf would have been better), especially against BUG decks, where TNN snipes it or they can profitably work around a 5/5 land, while I would imagine the 6 discard spells would be good in some of our weaker matchups? It's certainly been a while since I've deviated from the 3 therapy/2 ts.
GG Julian
I haven't see all but Round 1 g1, Why do you play symbiot turn 1 and not Llanowar?
In final, game 2, why do you keep this hand? Your opponent in 6 discard (cabal therapy >>>> symboite in this mu) and you keep a hand without discard and just with one GSZ (you are lucky with your Cradle draw). The game plan GSZ for Hoof is so so slow for combo mirror... I don't understand this keep.
Your Thoughtseize choice in g3 is very interessant. Are you sure is the best? You can run Leovold next turn for blank Glimpse, you lose if he draw another creature (with behemot) very hard choice. I think I choose Heritage and gsz to Leovold next turn.
Last edited by blind; 02-12-2017 at 01:30 PM.
A small question, I can get all parts for the deck, but only 2 cradles. Is the deck playable and competitive with only 2 cradles?
Many thanks.
If you mix in like 3x Crop Rotation with 2 Cradles it will work; but I would recommend getting a full set as soon as you can if you like elves.
Hey, I player this list at the 4season (180 players) yesterday
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Natural Order
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Birchlore Rangers
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Shaman of the Pack
1 Wren's Run Packmaster
SB: 4 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Progenitus
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
Ended up with a promising 6/2, I lost against an omnitell which had a one turn faster combo in G1 and a turn 1 Kozilek Return into turn 3 Pyroclasm into turn 4 combo and a Miracles, that was able to beat me at exactly 1 hp in both games while I was 1 mana off for a lethal shaman of the pack.
I managed to beat 2 team america, even with a non specific sideboard I felt in control of those games, 2 of them ended up in a really close race and only thanks to a recursive Shaman of the Pack (with cavern) I won them (got turn 1 Caged in one of those games), 1 aluren, 1 DnT (progenitus gave me a win despite mulling to 5 cards against a turn 1 vial into turn 2 revoker into turn 3 jitte + plowshares), 1 Junk Nic Fit and 1 Mirror against a blue version.
It still feels like the sideboard is a little off, I decided to play 3 surgicals mainly because BR Reanimator is a thing and we basicly autolose that with no specific sideboard but the lack of a different angle of attack is driving me crazy in the miracle MU (it's also worth noting that I am a decent miracle player, so I think I am playing the MU correctly, but it's just too hard to beat a decent pilot imho).
I am thinking about giving up the combo MU for a better Miracle MU, still unsure if there is a well rounded sideboard able to fight well against the meta honestly.
"You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"
good job Julian and Noctalor!
anybody playing Silkweaver Elite? Seems like no one is playing the card.
noct: what do you find yourself losing to in the miracles matchup the most?
-rob
I can explain very well how the MU works, and as a pretty good miracles player (Top8 some 250> events with it) I know pretty well why elves has basicly no chance to win whatsoever against a decent pilot.
Firslty, a good way to hit miracles is by having a problematic manabase, we have no good denial (mainly port) and we can't afford the fullset of Caverns, (by the way, if we land a cavern our chances are much higher), so let's start by pointing out that anything we try against miracles is something he can teoretically handle.
The nature of our deck is to overextend, and surely we can't do that agains a playset of terminus, but going for a grindy game will probably lead to a loss aswell, the value of most of our cards is pretty low if they can't interact with each other and we can't abuse two of our most powerful tools because both order and cradle are not really going to work most of the times, so we are left with zenith, simbiote and glimpse to carry the rest of the deck.
Going slowly will pretty much guarantee an optimal setup for the miracle player, there is nothing we can do about that unless we stop sdt but it's also true that miracle is still left with at least 8 more cantrips and that anyone is going to board in wear/tear to solve the problem, so going into late game will result in miracle going for a huge tempo play that we have almost no chances to overcome.
Those big tempo plays are mostly based on terminus of course, a terminus plus mentor/jace/entreat leaves us with no board and no easy way to respond directly in the following turn, and our best shot at coming back in the game is to play directly into a second terminus which is still likely to be found in time.
That's basicly how the MU works, our small boards are no more threatening than a tarmogoyf and we have a good chance to lose both if we go fast and if we go slow, it's also a nightmare to figure out our best move in each turn while it's honestly the easiest possible MU for our opponent (for example in top8 at the last ovino I decided not to split the top8 just because I was on miracle and I knew that even playing against a really good elves player the MU is close to a free win).
So, talking about what is best to fight miracles.
We can go for needles and rods, if we manage to block sdt and than to hit pretty hard we have a decent chance to win before our opponent recovers, if we chose this path we instalose to a random terminus/wear, if we chose to block sdt and then play slowly we get a decent advantage in the early game but we are likely to end up in the same exact spot in the late game, our opponent will have less perfect answers but we have to consider he will still have some.
Going for surgical/extirpate is also pretty reasonable, if we get our opponent to waste a single terminus we can try to overextend quickly, leading our opponent to some bad shuffles/turn into a second terminus that we can try to stop, surgical wont work most of the times unless we have some disruption or we force miracles to burn counters elsewhere but extirpate is a solid bet, if our opponent is on a 2 KReturn list we are still likely to lose but the game gets much easier.
Another plan is to go for lock pieces such as choke/gaddock and winter orb, in my experience a good pilot can play around those kind of cards and they are not that effective unless we go full aggressive and hope for the best, it's still reasonable to chose this cards is we expect average opponents.
Lastly we have plainswalkers if we want to, in my experience is not that easy to get them on board, but then they help immensely, Nissa is super good but it's not that easy to reach 5 mana without extending the board.
To sum it up, we have decent tools to fight back in this MU, if we really wan't to get somewhere we need to have a good mix of them which means playing basicly 10 cards or more just for this MU and even doing so we are still not even close to be favourites.
"You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"
I actually ran the 1-of in the MB at a weekly yesterday. He did exactly what I expected. Was a 3 mana Elvish Visionary that I eventually championed into Wren's Run Packmaster. The Board got wiped later in the game and he drew me a second card, then started swinging in for 2. Nothing crazy, but the card did everything I wanted from it and was part of my game-winning formula.
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