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Thread: Grixis Tempo

  1. #21

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I've been testing this deck myself with my buddy and have come up with this list so far.

    12 Creatures
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Young Pyromancer

    30 Instants/Sorceries
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Stifle
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Gitaxian Probe
    3 Cabal Therapy
    4 Lightning Bolt

    18 Lands
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Wasteland

    SB (Work in progress)
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 REB
    2 Shattering Spree
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Perish
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Disfigure

    The Shattering Sprees may be too cute, but I've wanted to try them with Pyromancer. Smash to Smithereens is probably a better choice here. Might try more burn or Dismembers/Disfigures in the board as well. It's still early testing, but so far I think the Pyromancer is legit. I wonder about using a Dark Triumph or two somewhere in the 75, probably just win more(and plays not so nice with Bob) but may be worth a shot. I'm still not sure what's better in this build; the Stifles or some extra Probes and Discard. I really love Stifle though...

  2. #22
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I think Badlands is unneeded, and I'm hesitant to run one in a deck with 4 Dazes.

    Also, Shattering Spree doesn't work the way you want - the copies are placed on the stack, not cast. This allows the copy to kill Chalice@1, but it won't trigger Young Pyromanacer, so it is not worth costing multiple R in my opinion.

  3. #23

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Yeah, I missed the wording on Shattering Spree, and it is probably better to run Volcanic instead of Badlands. Any thoughts on Dark Triumph? I've played about 5 games with it in and its really not that hard to set up effectively, but it may be better off in the sideboard (or not in the deck at all?). I'm still not quite sure about it.

  4. #24

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Been testing a bit more and currently have come to this build. Pyroman is good, and really plays well with Bob as Bob just draws more gas for Pyroman, but DRS is just too good not to play if you have black. I find that he really does everything we want Pyromancer to do (damage) plus a hell of a lot more. That 1cmc + mana accel, + shocks is just too good to pass up. You lose chump blockers, but I really don't want to stall the board. Maybe Pyromancer can fit in instead of Bob, I think that will be the next thing I try.

    4 Delver
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman

    4 Stifle
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 FoW
    4 Daze
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Spell Pierce

    18 Lands
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    8 Blue Fetches
    4 Wasteland

    SB
    4 Submerge
    2 Fire Covenant
    2 Flusterstorm
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Winter Orb

  5. #25
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    DRS + Pyroman = Decktype

    // Creatures: 10
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Young Pyromancer
    2 Tombstalker

    // Spells: 30
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Ponder
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Abrupt Decay
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    // Lands: 20
    2 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Bayou

    This is what I've been testing, and it seems sweet. It looks kind of unlikely I'll be able to take it to this weekend's tournament, which is a shame, but currently I'm struggling against Wasteland, and a lack of Stifle. I'm very tempted to cut Lightning Bolt, but I have stolen enough games to understand why that may seem like a bad idea, and when the Wastes catch up on the later turns after I've managed to power through it, they do become my main method of just closing the game out. However, Stifles would not only protect against Wastelands and provide the mana denial that may be intrinsic to the Legacy Tempo strategy, but they also just mess up various Deatrite Shamans and Delvers, alongside hitting Jace, and even the odd Chrome Mox here and there, and also having an additional hate card for Storm is nice.

  6. #26
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I've found this deck to be really fun to play with, as I saw a lot of potential in Young Pyromancer. But this deck has one MAJOR issue. As a tempo deck (and in the Legacy format), this deck tends to empty its hand in the first few turns of the game, leaving us to topdeck mode. As a pseudo-combo, Young Pyromancer requires you to play lots of spells, and if you're in topdeck mode, this is just not enough. Making one 1/1 token per turn after a Pernicious Deed or Terminus isn't enough.

    The only advantage I see in Grixis over RUG Delver is the discard options, as Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy are really strong options. But lacking a resilient threat (Goose) and a thug (Goyf) really hurts this deck if your early disruption isn't matched with the right clock.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandalize View Post
    I've found this deck to be really fun to play with, as I saw a lot of potential in Young Pyromancer. But this deck has one MAJOR issue. As a tempo deck (and in the Legacy format), this deck tends to empty its hand in the first few turns of the game, leaving us to topdeck mode. As a pseudo-combo, Young Pyromancer requires you to play lots of spells, and if you're in topdeck mode, this is just not enough. Making one 1/1 token per turn after a Pernicious Deed or Terminus isn't enough.

    The only advantage I see in Grixis over RUG Delver is the discard options, as Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy are really strong options. But lacking a resilient threat (Goose) and a thug (Goyf) really hurts this deck if your early disruption isn't matched with the right clock.
    Whilst I'll agree with the lack of a Mongoose replacement, I feel that Tombstalker is a much better threat than Goyf onve they both land. We can rush our Stalker onto the table quite easily if we have to, so we aren't evn just going to get outraced, and when it drops we can shrink the Goyf simply by casting our 'Stalker. I would like to be playing something with Shroud, but I'm not too bothered, as I'm just going to make a load of 1/1's and ask you to deal with them. You're also not emptying your hand that much to do it, either. You're casting cantrips to find discard or removal, and then castingbthat with some value attached.

    I am currently looking into Thought Scour somewhere. I want to screw with people's Brainstorms and Tops.

  8. #28

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I managed to make 9th place with the following list in a 60 man tournament here in Australia. I only missed top 8 because my opponent nor I were comfortable doing the ID math in the last round which would have secured me a top 8 place had we ID'd. We played out our match and I lost in 3. I missed out on top 8 by 0.9%.

    9) Joshula Butler – Grixis Delver
    Lands (18)
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Wasteland
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Scalding Tarn

    Creatures (10)
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Young Pyromancer
    2 Snapcaster Mage
    Sorceries (9)
    4 Ponder
    3 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Cabal Therapy

    Instants (23)
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Stifle
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Misdirection

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Ancient Grudge
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Grafdigger’s Cage

    The deck was misbuilt. You definately want to replace the third sea with the third volc. If I were to play it again I would find room for another burn spell like chain. I felt on the day that I had too many lands but that could just be variance. I do not play legacy very often but I felt that the deck was quite strong. If you woud like a report I can write one up. I just thought I would leave an example of a sucessful list in this thread.

  9. #29

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    This has been my take on the Grixis tempo. Without Brainstorms and Ponders I find Delver loses some effectiveness, and I have gone for an almost combo-y approach that tries to explode for an early win. I realize Dark Confidant is probably a better play than the Flame Kin Harbinger but I like being able to tutor a NivMagus and go off turn 1-3. Confidant would be safer, but this deck is BLAZING Fast and explosive. Young Pyromancer and Cabal Therapy is nearly broken. I used to run Death's Shadow to mop up if necessary, but no room for him after YP printing. I haven't had time to play it in a super competitive environment yet beyond casual legacy,but it has been great so far. If anyone wants to test it themselves and give suggestions that would be cool.

    Grixis NivMagus

    [DECK]

    4x NivMagus Elemental
    3x Flame Kin Harbinger
    4x Young Pyromancer
    3x Snapcaster Mage
    1x Kiln Fiend

    4x Flusterstorm
    4x Daze
    2x Snuff Out
    1x Slaughter Pact
    2x Ground Rift
    4x Gut Shot
    4x Gitixian Probe
    4x Cabal Therapy
    2x Force of Will
    2x Clout of the Dominus

    4x Scalding Tarn
    2x Misty Rainforest
    2x Arid Mesa
    4x Volcanic Island
    1x Badlands
    1x Underground Sea
    1x Watery Grave
    1x Island
    1x Mountain


    Side
    2x Force of Will
    2x Clout of the Dominus
    1x Snuff Out
    3x Spell Pierce
    1x Pact of Negation
    2x Ground Rift
    4x Surgical Extraction


    [/DECK]

  10. #30
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I have been playing Grixis tempo since before the printing of Pyromancer and I've concluded that Pyromancer and Therapy were not very good in this deck despite all my efforts to see their success. Yes Pyromancer gives a lot of card advantage, but those are all very crappy cards. Three 1/1s won't get you very far against a 1/2. I mean, even a DRS or a Stoneforge will stall your board and you won't be able to swing profitably with neither pyro nor the tokens. Cabal Therapy is simply not very strong in a tempo strategy. It has a combo interaction with Pyromancer, and it's not a great one at that either.

    I have stated this before in this thread and I will reiterate: what makes Grixis Tempo good compared to RUG and BUG variants is the fact that it has the hardest disruption and the most reach. Unlike other tempo decks, Grixis assumes more control over the board and wins through smaller threats.

    Here's my list:


    Creatures (12)
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Tombstalker

    Spells (28)
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Fire // Ice
    4 Lightning Bolt

    Lands (20)
    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Tropical Island

    Sideboard (15)
    3 Submerge
    3 Pyroblast
    2 Dimir Charm
    2 Rakdos Charm
    1 Fire Covenant
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Engineered Plague
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
    Get it...? Ass, u, me?

    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  11. #31

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Went 4-1 tonight playing in my weekly legacy event. Quick tournament report:

    Lost first round to Death and Taxes. He had all 4 StP game one and had a guy on every vial activation game 2.

    Won round 2 against High Tide. Lost game one. Won game two getting a quick clock off of pyro and pithing needling candelabra. Won game three after he surgical'd, saw my hand of 2 flusterstorm, pyro, and stifle

    Won round 3 against BUG Landstill. Won game 1 just punching with a pyromancer and confidant. I had two pyromancers going and 6 tokens but he had Tabernacle and I didn't have the wasteland. Lost game 2 after I tore his hand apart with cabal therapy but didn't have any threats. He recovered better and beat me down with factories. Game 3 I was able to find pyromancer, confidant, and a pithing needle to name pernicious deed.

    Round 4 my friend conceded to me since I had a better chance in the top 8 than him since he was playing Death and Taxes and we had a few combo players making it in and we split prize every week.

    Round 5 (Top 8) played against OmniHalls. Won game one dazing cantrips and beating him down with pyromancer and tokens. Game two he mulled to six and I was able to answer everything accordingly while having the pyromancer out.

    Overall the decks really strong. I used Drew Levin's 60 main and meta'd my sideboard for my local store.

    Sideboard was:
    2 Perish
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 JtMS
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Smash to Smithereens
    1 Bonfire of the Damned
    2 Pithing Needle (these things were amazing all night)
    4 Cabal Therapy

  12. #32
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdb1005 View Post
    Went 4-1 tonight playing in my weekly legacy event. Quick tournament report:
    Nice, thanks for the report!

    I took this to a local yesterday as well. Went 3-1, good for a top 4 split and $30 or so.

    Alphastryk took the deck last week and went like 2-2 or something, so I made some changes that he suggested after we read Levin's article.

    // Creatures - 15
    4 Delver
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Young Pyromancer

    // Spells - 27
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Spell Snare
    1 Stifle
    4 Lightning bolt
    2 Dismember

    // Land - 18
    9 fetch
    3 Volcanic
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Wasteland

    // Sideboard
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 Perish
    1 Darkblast
    1 Electrickery
    1 Smash to Smithereens
    1 Meltdown

    Alphastryk specifically mentioned wanting more colored sources, and Levin's 17 land list seemed a little greedy given how mana-hungry this deck is, even with the Turbo Xerox math of 4 Gitaxian Probe = 1 land. So I just went with 61 cards to give another pseudo half a land. Alphastryk and I agreed that Stifle doesn't seem at its best in this deck because it has more 2-drop threats, wants to tap out with Pyromancer in play, and doesn't even run the set of mana-denial. It's not focused. The split of interactive cards worked out well, each was useful and it kept the opponent guessing.

    I wanted to try out Meltdown against all the Chalice decks in our meta. The second Smash would have been better in every instance. I think playing without grave hate is suicidal in legacy - there's enough graveyard-value decks like Loam in addition to its uses against Reanimator, Dredge, and ANT. Levin's list had Jace and Bonfire, both of which seem awful. Jace has been tried in BUG Delver and it just wasn't good even with the acceleration from Deathrite. Bonfire is a worse Electrickery - come on, like you're really getting to 5 mana? Electrickery was very good every time I drew it, but sadly didn't draw Darkblast.

    Rd 1 - Hoogland Loam
    G1 - He killed my first couple creatures while I played out Wastelands, then Knight raced my Delver.
    G2 - I managed to manascrew the 25 land deck by blowing up a Mox Diamond, countering a Loam, and Wasting him off 2 lands until Delver got there.
    G3 - I kept a controlling hand without a threat, something that if I played more Thresh I would have realized was a mistake. He got 5 lands in play and then winning was only a matter of time for him.
    Surgical was marginal. I wasn't able to use it on Loam because he always left up a cycling land. Extirpate or Nihil Spellbomb would have been better. This seems like a tough matchup.

    Rd 2 - Death and Taxes
    G1 - I stupidly didn't Force a Jitte with Thalia in play to my Delver, Bob, Insectile Aberration. Almost won the race despite that thanks to a top-decked Stifle on the Jitte's damage trigger, but bricked on Bolt.
    G2 - Lavamancer was looking good, then Rest in Peace came down. Delver beat down while I killed or countered every man he played.
    G3 - We both kept 1-landers. He got down a Mom, Plowed my Delver, and Wasted my land, so I thought I was cooked when I had to cleanup like 3 times. I ended up drawing out of the manascrew first and Bob kept the gas flowing while he couldn't deploy his 3-drops in time. He did make a greedy attack with a Mom equipped with Jitte and Sword of Light and Shadow into open mana that probably lost him the game when I Bolted her.

    Rd 3 - Turbo Eldrazi
    G1 - He drew a lot of lands and I made a lot of Elementals.
    G2 - Things were looking good when I Therapied 2 Tops and an Ulamog. Then Eye of Ugin found Emrakul before I could kill him.
    G3 - He drew a lot of lands, then Daze countered an Oblivion Stone with 4 mana open. I got there.

    Quarters - Goblins
    G1 - Lavamancer did a lot of work, although he killed both. Pyromancer took over the game, making his attacks miserable.
    G2 - I Smashed his first Aether Vial, Wasted him every time he drew a second land, and tempo'd him out with Pyromancer. One sweet turn went like: play second Pyromancer, Probe, Daze in response, Waste your land.

    I have to say, Pyromancer is nuts. I like that every threat is a must-kill (except maybe Lavamancer). Lavamancer is really mana-hungry - I had like 5 turns over the course of the night where I couldn't activate him because it was more important to find a counterspell or progress the board.
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  13. #33

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I've been testing this list with some buddies, however haven't been able to make it to a tournament yet. I like the combination of Pyromancer, Git Probe, and Cabal Therapy. One of the most exciting things (for the current metagame) has been playing Reanimate in a tempo shell. Being able to Thoughtseize or Bolt away their creature and Reanimate it is pretty sweet. With decks like Sneak and Show and Reanimator running around I've already been lucky enough to snag my opponent's Griselbrand. Also (and this is the pinnacle of greed in a Daze/Wasteland deck, I might add) playing Young Pyromancer with Punishing Fire has been insane for me. The only cards I'm sure I want in the sideboard are Red and Blue Blasts.

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Young Pyromancer
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Reanimate
    2 Thoughtseize
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Punishing Fire
    3 Force of Will
    3 Daze
    2 Fire / Ice
    2 Ponder

    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Wasteland

    Sideboard

    2 Submerge
    4 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Blue Elemental Blast
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Rise / Fall
    1 Perish
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    Legacy - all flavors of Delver, UB Shadow, Eldrazi Stompy, UBx Reanimator, some UBx midrange piles
    Modern - Prowess, Traverse Shadow
    Pioneer - UW Aggro

  14. #34
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Is anyone in this thread the guy who plays this on mtgo? I swear I watched a ton of games one night that a guy was playing this list. It looked pretty sweet.
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  15. #35

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Hi everybody , this is my first post. Last friday I played a local tournament, I went 5-0 and i won a Tundra. I´m very happy with this deck. I didnt take a note so i put the pairings :

    1º Grixis ( with pyromancer) 2-1

    2º Maverick with punisinhg 2-1

    3º RUG with Standstill 1-0

    4º Canadian 2-1

    5º BUG with Standstill 2-1

    I Played with Green for the Abrupt Decay.

    My current list :

    4 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Stifle
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Thoughtseize

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Tombstalker
    1 Vendillion Clique

    4 Wasteland
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 B. Mire
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Bayou
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Badlands

    Side
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Perish
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Force of Will
    1 Extirpate
    2 Engineered Explosives
    1 Engineered Plague
    3 Pyroblast
    2 Submerge
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Golgary Charm



    regards and sorry for my english.

  16. #36
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Levin's update at the end of his video article had some solid suggestions. I'm trying out a Badlands as the 61st card (replacing a fetch in my previous list) and cutting a Lavamancer for Tombstalker. So far I haven't been double fireblasted by Bob and he's been an incredible threat to draw into late-game several times. Bob always dies on sight anyway.
    A couple Tombstalkers in the board replaced the Perishes, he made a reasonable case that you would actually just prefer a threat in the matchups where Perish would be doing work. I'm loving Electrickery as a 1-of, 2 might be correct in the appropriate meta.

    Pyromancer is the real deal. He either is killed or wins the game in 2-3 turns. So far I've won every match against fair decks on the back of Pyromancer and won against unfair decks with the general tempo plan.
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  17. #37

    Re: Grixis Tempo

    fire covenant is a house. i cant think playing anything less than two is correct in almost any meta . its like casting a dismember that wraths the whole team and not just one...

  18. #38
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    I have been watching this deck develop and thought I would give it a go at a small 4 round local tournament this weekend.
    The list
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Young Pyromancer
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Stifle
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Fire/Ice
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    Sideboard
    4 Submerge
    2 Sulfuric Vortex
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Tombstalker
    2 Engineered Explosives
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Sulfur Elemental

    2-1 Elves
    2-0 Allies
    1-2 Jund
    2-0 Esper Deathblade

    Notes of Impportance
    Elves was a suprisingly easy matchup, you have so much control over what they are doing and Cabal Therapy just destroys them.
    Jund is ROUGH... I lost game three with my opponent at 2 life I boarded in Tombstalker and raced then got choked while tapped out with bolts in hand.
    Happy with the deck Engineered Explosives were really bad and never was young pyromancer a standout. I feel like it is inferior to Rug...but has potential.

  19. #39
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Why no flusterstorm? Seems potentially sick, any low mana storm cards seem pretty good with the young guy.

  20. #40
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    Re: Grixis Tempo

    Quote Originally Posted by thefreakaccident View Post
    Why no flusterstorm? Seems potentially sick, any low mana storm cards seem pretty good with the young guy.
    You only get one token when you cast a Storm spell, since the Storm copies are "put on the stack", not "cast".

    Flusterstorm works with Nivmagus Elemental, though.

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