Grixis Tempo

[grixis]

And Deathrite Shaman, which blocks Elemental tokens.

it make lots of condition, no ?

[grixis]

Darkblast kills it, after it blocks. It's a drawstep for a DRS.

yes, i have already do this, its expensive but it can save your life =), like on shamane

and what do you tinh about it :

2 spell pierce maind deck, like some tempo *****

its great to protect your creature from bolt or stp =)

and against liliaana, jace and discard too (against combo too)

[RedVelvet]

Why not start main deck as the reanimater deck and side all 15 into normal Grixis delver. I would rather be reanimater game one when they have a lower chance of having the answer for it.

[grixis]

new list with nemesis and deathrite

=> can you give me advice ?

ps : dont care about manabase and side (it's test)

3 Young Pyromancer
3 Dark Confidant
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Deathrite Shaman

4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Diabolic edict
3 Cabal Therapy

4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Badlands
1 Swamp


SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Dismember
SB: 1 Arcane Laboratory
SB: 2 Deathmark
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge

[L0cke]

Played this at an SCG IQ today for 2nd place.


4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Brainstorm

4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
1 Reanimate
4 Stifle
4 Daze
1 Dismember
3 Force of Will


4 Young Pyromancer
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Dark Confidant

//Sideboard
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Flusterstorm
1 Meltdown
3 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Dismember
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Force of Will


There were 25-26 people I believe? 5 rounds+top 8. I thought the deck did quite well. Went 3-1-1 in swiss to draw into top eight. Beat Hoogland Loam, Thresh, Shardless BUG, drawing with Jund and losing to Thresh. My only regret is not playing at least 2 Spell Snare somewhere. I just desperately needed more ways to beat a Goyf. Beat Shardless BUG in the quarterfinals 2-0, nedleeds offered to scoop to me in the semi's because he won't ever play standard and I would have had I gone to the invitational. In the finals I mulliganed to 6 twice, and lost both those games. Although, game three was quite close, he ripped 5 lands in a row off the top and I didn't have the mana to stop all the Golgari Charms. In the end I just got 75 bucks in credit for my troubles, but at least it was an afternoon of legacy.

[nedleeds]

True story. I didn't lose all day.

[KobeBryan]

Why not start main deck as the reanimater deck and side all 15 into normal Grixis delver. I would rather be reanimater game one when they have a lower chance of having the answer for it.

Because against a tempo deck, people usually side out the FOW and they wouldn't bring in GY hate.

Game 1, people usually will have FOW which could counter your reanimation spells. But game 2, when it all comes out, they are in trouble especially since no one sides in gy hate against a tempo deck.

[L0cke]

Fixed that for you.

Game 1, people usually will have FOW which could counter your reanimation spells. But game 2, when it all comes out, they are in trouble especially since no one sides in gy hate against a Non-Green tempo deck.

[RaizeAren]

How well positioned is Grixis in the metagame right now? I would think with True-name running around in the blade decks that there will be an abundance of Golgari charm and Toxic Deluge that could cripple this deck. I like this deck and am debating between running a version of this or ANT for an upcoming tournament. (Maybe this indicates a couple of spell pierce main? Answered my own question I suppose) Interested in how people view the future of this deck.

[KobeBryan]

How well positioned is Grixis in the metagame right now? I would think with True-name running around in the blade decks that there will be an abundance of Golgari charm and Toxic Deluge that could cripple this deck. I like this deck and am debating between running a version of this or ANT for an upcoming tournament. (Maybe this indicates a couple of spell pierce main? Answered my own question I suppose) Interested in how people view the future of this deck.

i wouldn't play it...all the creatures are 1 toughness.

the amount of golgari charm is going to wreck you.

[Juice11]

I'm wondering if there's anyway to run this deck without the bobs? I only have one right now. What are some other creatures that are run in grixis delver or what would a creature list look like with 0-1 bob?

[Zilla]

I'm wondering if there's anyway to run this deck without the bobs? I only have one right now. What are some other creatures that are run in grixis delver or what would a creature list look like with 0-1 bob?

Depends on your meta, but I sometimes cut some Bobs in favor of a couple maindeck Grim Lavamancers. Not a good plan if you're in a combo heavy meta, but if you're playing against a lot of aggressive creature strategies it's a solid option, imo.

[L0cke]

I'm wondering if there's anyway to run this deck without the bobs? I only have one right now. What are some other creatures that are run in grixis delver or what would a creature list look like with 0-1 bob?

I very much like Deathrite Shaman. He lives through Golgari Charm, blocks 1/x's, eats bolt/swords for your Pyromancers to live after, and lets you play turn 2 Pyromancer with stifle/pierce/snare up. I run 3 DRS, 2 Bobs, 1 Lavamancer, for 14 total creatures.

[YamiJoey]

So I've been playing Drew Levin's reanimator thing, and it's incredible. At first I thought the transformational game-plan was the biggest advantage it had, but I played a tonne of G1's to work out how to play the schizophrenic main-deck, but it plays incredibly smoothly once you get used to it. You draw some Entombs and stuff whilst beating down with Delver, and then when they break through you just untap and make a Griselbrand or something. The real problem comes from tempo's suicidal nature, often just bleeding life until it wins, coming at huge odds to Reanimate costing you over a third of your starting life. I would be interested in testing an Esper variant using stoneforge Mystic with Batterskull for similar results over the Young Pyromancer and Lightning Bolt combo, but then I think it'd probably turn into Esper Nemesis and play vastly different. (TNN with an Elesh Norn out does not seem like a reasonable board state to face.)

[SirTylerGalt]

So I've been playing Drew Levin's reanimator thing, and it's incredible. At first I thought the transformational game-plan was the biggest advantage it had, but I played a tonne of G1's to work out how to play the schizophrenic main-deck, but it plays incredibly smoothly once you get used to it. You draw some Entombs and stuff whilst beating down with Delver, and then when they break through you just untap and make a Griselbrand or something. The real problem comes from tempo's suicidal nature, often just bleeding life until it wins, coming at huge odds to Reanimate costing you over a third of your starting life. I would be interested in testing an Esper variant using stoneforge Mystic with Batterskull for similar results over the Young Pyromancer and Lightning Bolt combo, but then I think it'd probably turn into Esper Nemesis and play vastly different. (TNN with an Elesh Norn out does not seem like a reasonable board state to face.)

If you don't want to lose life, you could always Entomb / Reanimate a Platinum Emperion :p

[YamiJoey]

Being unable to cast FoW to protect my bomb seems loose. Sadly Platinum Angel is incredibly weak.

[kryllex]

Hey there guys! New to the Forum, but as i saw Grixis, i just had to post and share my Deck with you guys
So, I am running Grixis for a bit now, and I am incredibly satisfied with the Deck. Actually, i am not a big fan of the Deathrite in this shell, especially because I don`t want to add more Creatures due to the Delver flip. But, on the other Hand, i never had the Feeling, that i need him, for Mana boosting or whatever, even if im Running 2x 3drops, which are, indeed, Nemesis - Thanks to Young Pyromancer, who defends the entire ground with his tokens, until TNN Lands the drop or Delver flys over a few times. Also, i am Running 4x Bob, because i think in a Deck like this, he just goes nuts. A few more Draws, feeding the Pyromancer, are just awesome.

My momental built is this:

Maindeck:
2x True-Name Nemesis
4x Young Pyromancer
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Dark Confidant
1x Grim Lavamancer

3x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Stifle

4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Underground Sea
3x Volcanic Island
4x Wasteland

Sideboard:
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Baleful Strix (I LOVE these!! )
3x Cabal Therapy
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Force of Will
2x Flusterstorm
2x Submerge
1x Pyroblast
1x Smash to Smithereens
1x Rough // Tumble

Currently thinking about adding 1x Diabolic Edict to the Maindeck, probably cutting 1 Pyromancer for it. Of course, because of the TNN flooding the Meta atm.
And maybe 2x Spell Pierce, because things like Zealus Persecution nearly wipe out my whole Field.

[Illusions]

I posted about this in the MTGS grixis tempo thread, but it seems to me that a lot of these lists are actually midrange decks masquerading as tempo decks. In my opinion, bob and YP are both midrange cards, as they don't present enough of a board presence to be able to close out a game themselves. They sacrifice immediate tempo for card advantage, when what you actually want in a tempo deck is immense pressure backed up with as much disruption as you can feasibly pack. Often, this involves sacrificing card advantage for an immediate advantage in board presence, and disruptive capability (i.e. the reason why force of will is so good in tempo). We should be building away from cutesy value engines, and towards more immediately powerful strategies that rapidly close out the game. Drawing cards is good, but it's never been better than winning the game.

For the most part, this deck shares the large bulk of its disruption package with the other delver decks, with the primary difference being the threats it packs. Bob and YP don't bash in, aren't evasive, and require several turns before they start accruing enough value to win the game. On top of this, they die to a stiff breeze, and are difficult to protect. Because they're so fragile, you need to protect them for a comparatively long time compared to other threats, that could close out the game in the meantime, and mitigate risk. I think there are two promising avenues at this stage that grixis players should be experimenting with. The first is using a trimmed down creature package of:

4 DRS
4 Delver
2 Tombstalker
2/3 TNN

To put the screws to your opponent. Each creature is capable of ending the game on its own, and backed up with lightning bolts and chain lightning, is a real threat that needs to be answered. This creature package doesn't fold to the TNN hate that is currently seeing widespread play, and everything is evasive, which plays into our plan of dealing damage and mopping up with burn. There's a tendency for players to shy away from a creature if they aren't getting 100% value out of it, when in actuality, it may still be the best creature for the job. In this case, we aren't running green for DRS, but he's still more efficient than GLM, and can hit your opponent's yard. Even without the green ability, he's still the best 1 drop ever printed, and makes your early game a turn faster, while adding reach and yard hate in the midgame. He's the primary reason you would want to run black. The same goes for TNN. We aren't putting a sword on him like UWR, but he's still an unblockable threat that can't be removed, and unlike UWR, we can put him down a turn earlier, and back him up with more aggressive threats. What we want is a clock that doesn't need much protection, and he gives us that. Tombstalker is highly underrated right now. If he sticks, it's essentially game over.

The second configuration that looks promising is the unearth/vexing devil package, in which case you play like a sligh deck. A few lists have been posted on MTGS, but the creature package I would use is probably something like:

4 DRS
4 Delver
4 Vexing Devil
2 Tombstalker

You then back this up with 3 unearth, a traditional delver disruption package, and lightning bolts. In this case, you're looking to burn your opponent down, with the option of controlling them and bashing face while you get your threats online. I'm not sure how well vexing devil plays into the tempo strategy, since he's basically a burn spell rather than a threat in the early game, but I think it has a lot of potential with unearth in this type of shell.

In any case, food for thought.

Cheers!

[Qweerios]

@illusions,

I agree with you on the role of grixis tempo and how reach is its most convincing attribute of this color combination. I believe the right approach to grixis is something close to team america with red instead of green (AKA: Bolt > Decay). You swap Goyfs for TNN, making the creature base more resilient and less vulnerable to GY hate while also increasing the low blue count for FoW. Along with Tombstalker, TNN is another difficult threat to remove that only succumbs to very different, yet specific, removal.

Since the core of the deck is blue and some of the best black cards require double black mana (Liliana, Tombstalker, Hymn), red cards should be kept to a minimum mainly for Bolts, Forked Bolts, and SB options like Red Blasts and Ancient Grudge.

I suggest the following as a contender:


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
2-4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Tombstalker

4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
0-4 Forked Bolt
0-4 Dismember
0-4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Badlands


Oh and I don't think Chain Lightning is a good card compared to Forked Bolt and Dismember...

What do you think?

Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[wcm8]

Losing Goyf for TNN seems reasonable, but Abrupt Decay is part of what makes Team America such a great deck. So I wouldn't say that Bolt > Decay in all situations. The flexibility of Decay and also it not being counterable is important in a format as broad and fast as Legacy.

Honestly I think Grixis is just trying to force a color combination that doesn't quite justify itself yet. I do think Grim Lavamancer and Young Pyromancer have potential. I wonder if you could play a bunch of hyper cantrips that could build up an army of Pyromancer tokens and also fill up the graveyard for early/multiple Tombstalkers.