Well, since my deck was mentioned a couple of times already I guess I wouldn’t mind giving this contest a whirl.
This deck is called Nausea. The reason for that is because of Solidarity actually. I figured that I would use a worthy name for a worthy deck. The idea actually came from Alix (Ob. Freely) in that, if any of you have ever heard the Solidarity story, Nausea was the reason why Solidarity was boarded in. I’m not saying that Solidarity beats this deck, because it doesn’t, I’m saying that I really like that story. XD
So here is the list(Edited Dec 29, 2005):
Nausea 2.1
// Mana
4 City of Traitors
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Land Grant
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
// Cantrip
3 Darkwater Egg
4 Chromatic Sphere
3 Shadowblood Egg
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Night's Whisper
// Other Shit
4 Burning Wish
3 Tendrils of Agony
4 Helm of Awakening
4 Spoils of the Vault
// Sideboard
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Night's Whisper
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Promise of Power
1 Regrowth
1 Infernal Contract
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Simplify
1 Echoing Ruin
1 Firebolt
4 Xantid Swarm
Now for the fun part: the rambling. Now I have been fiddling with this deck for the good part of 2 months now, and I still don’t consider it optimal. This is what actually led me to post this in the Open Discussion forum before I had actual tournament records and thorough testing to back-up my conclusions. As it stands though, the deck has been performing well and it is great fun to play (that is if you like killing your opponent before they blink.)
The average goldfish of this deck has actually turned out to be 2.5. That is fast. Really fast. For a format that likes to sit around and wait until turn 4-5 to kill someone, that is too fast. Of course you will fizzle and of course your opponent might stop you, but you can hold your own with this deck trust me.
This deck has fought through hell and back and still won. IBA was playing some stupid Mono-white deck the other day with 4 Abeyance and 3 Orim’s Chant plus a few Aura of Silence and it still ended at an even record, when any of that should have smashed me. I’m not saying this deck is unbelievably resilient to everything, because its not, every deck has weaknesses. I’m just saying you can fight through a lot of it.
Card Choices:
I’m only going over debatable cards, not things like Dark Ritual.
City of Traitors: I really don’t know what brought me to put this card into the deck, but once I did, I never looked back. The card makes a first turn Helm very plausible. It pops Eggs with ease and without you having to use precious colored mana on them. It is simply acceleration. Acceleration is always good for combo decks, right?
Spoils of the Vault: This card is Legacy’s Vampiric Tutor, a very weak one mind you. Seriously though this card is the best Black tutor effect in the format. At least I can’t think of a better one.
Darkwater Eggs and Chromatic Sphere: These cards under Helm are the most amazing cantrips you can find. They are free, they fix mana, and they draw a card. You don’t get much better than that.
Helm of Awakening: I think this might be the most popular card for Legacy combo decks. The card is everywhere in the N&D forum. All of the Tendrils decks use it, why part from the crowd when they are going where you want to go?
Brainstorm: There was a point in time where I tested Impulse in this slot, but Brainstorm is just to powerful to deny when combined with Land Grant. Draw three cards, put back 2 lands, and then Land Grant. Now that’s a deal I will do more than once.
Meditate: This card seems to have been questioned in my thread about this deck, so I will go over why this card is nuts. Drawing four cards will almost always win you the game, unless of course you are unlucky. For 3 mana you draw 4 cards. Under Helm it’s for 2 mana. Another reason, there are very few things that a lot of the decks in this format can do to you with an extra turn. If you do end up passing the turn after playing a Meditate, have no fear because you will most likely be going off when the clock comes back to you.
Now I am going to go through a goldfish game.
Game - My opening hand is actually not spectacular. Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Brainstorm, Chrome Mox, Bayou, and 2 Land Grants. Assuming I’m on the play, my first turn is Bayou, pass.
For my next turn I draw a Darkwater Egg. Could have been better, but we’re just dealing with what’s given. So I Land Grant to find a Tropical Island then Brainstorm with it. Well off of the Brainstorm I draw Tendrils, Meditate, and Spoils. Looks like I stacked the deck when I wasn’t looking. So I put back the Mox and the Tendrils because I will hopefully find a Tendrils by the time I’m done going off, and Mox is not helpful right now. I kept the Egg because right now I have to way of casting Meditate if I decide to go off this turn. Now here is the tricky part: deciding whether to go off now or next turn with Tendrils in hand. In most cases I will want to wait the turn because my opponent will not likely cripple me on turn 2.
So I take my next turn, drawing the Tendrils on the top of the library. Now my hand looks like Tendrils, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Meditate, Darkwater Egg, Land Grant, and Spoils of the Vault. My first move is to Land Grant, grabbing the final Trop. I did this because I don’t want to risk removing the Trop. with Spoils. After finding the Trop. I Dark Ritual and Spoils for Helm of Awakening. I find the Helm 13 cards down, so now I’m at 8. I play Helm with the 2 black mana in my pool. I lay the second Trop. down and play and pop egg. Leaving me with 1 blue and 1 black in my pool. I draw a brainstorm. Well that seems pretty good. I cast Brainstorm. Now I have to find another draw spell or a mana fixer in order to keep going with Meditate. I draw Dark Ritual, Spoils, and Chromatic Sphere. I put back Tendrils and Spoils of the Vault. Cast Dark Ritual with the single black floating in my pool. Then I play and pop Chromatic Sphere drawing a Tendrils that I put back and then casting Meditate with one black still left in pool. Note that now I have achieved threshold and have the single black I need to cast the Cabal Ritual in my hand. Also note that I have a storm count of 9, so drawing 4 City of Traitors is OK because I can just cast Cabal Ritual then Tendrils. Which is exactly what I do despite the fact that I drew Night’s Whisper, Lotus Petal, Spoils, and City of Traitors off of the Meditate. This leaves room for you to potentially go off again next turn by Spoilsing for a Meditate if you’re feeling lucky.
So that was a turn 3 win. Remarkably, that was a mediocre hand. Also to note, I drew almost everything that I needed to make that hand as amazing as it turned out to be. This is one factor in the deck: luck.
Now I have one last thing to do, match-ups.
Well the match-ups for this deck are actually extraordinary. Against almost any aggro deck in this format, this deck just wins to fast.
Vial Goblins: 7-3 My favor. This was shocking. I actually thought that Goblins might be able to race me a fair amount of the time, but I just ran over them. I will admit wasteland plus mass beats is tough to get around. I pulled some games out while at a very dangerous life total.
Solidarity: 6-4 My favor. This match-up was very fun and interesting to play. There was a game where I went off, being careful not to play more than 10 spells, and he just went off in response. In is going off though he Wished for Stifle and Forced my original copy just for more storm, just to Brain Freeze me for around 180. All in all I had a favorable match-up because I would go off on turn 2 when he had 1 land in play or on turn 3 when he had 2. It was very hard for him to keep up. But there were my mediocre hands that just got ran over by his.
Welder Survival: 9-1 My favor. I think this match up was slightly distorted because I didn’t fizzle once the entire 10 games. In actuality I believe that it should be around 8-2 or 7-3. The game he did win though was when he got a turn 2 Sundering Titan…that was redonkulous.
Enchantress: I didn’t write the match-up down, but it was something ridiculous like 8-2 in my favor. He won very few games while we sat there. There were games where Echoing Truth actually won me the game. Of course, there were games where I lost because I couldn’t find the Echoing Truth. I will note that Enchantress can abuse a Helm like crazy, so you might want to not play the Helm until you are going off, or know that you are going off next turn.
ATS: 5-5 This match-up wasn't all to amazing. You can race the counters most of the time. Also I got very unlucky during this round of testing.
Landstill: 6-4 Your favor. They have a lot of dead cards. When I say a lot, I mean a lot. They have 8 counters, and 4 Standstills. Thats about it. You can give them a run for there money. Second turn Standstill could mean trouble. Post sideboard, you side in either Duress or Xantid Swarm. I think it should be Duress just because they might leave in Swords to deal wtih Swarms.
Well thats my rap yo.
Roop
First, here's the link to the old thread.
Second, I'm suprised at the consistency of the goldfishes. I've been hitting turn three nearly every time - except the time I tried for a double Spoils :( .
Third, I have a question about your play style for the deck. Do you, in general, burn a draw spell or two on your first and/or second turn, or do you save them for the turn you will be going off? I'll give you an example of a hand that raised this question for me:
City of Traitors
City of Traitors
Bayou
Dark Ritual
Night's Whisper
Brainstorm
Tendrils of Angony
I decided that the hand is keep-able. Weak, but keep-able. Would you turn one, play Bayou, Ritual, Whipers? Or would you wait for turn two?
edit I'm also wondering about the single Echoing Truth main. In my goldfishing, I've found that I'm drawing the card and wishing that it was a draw spell. Has it proven necessary in actual tornament play, or is it more often a dead spell?
Originally Posted by Cavius The Great
In reference to that hand, my first turn would be Bayou, go. I don't mind using draw spells before the turn I attempt to go off, but I do mind using Rituals. This rule is only broken when I'm playing a Helm with the Ritual. I would definatly play the Whisper second turn even though I will most likely burn. It gives you more cards in hand when you are trying to go off.
The Echoing Truth has actually won me 2 games yesterday in the tournament I played in. But on the flip side it was definatly drawn many times and me wishing on everything that is was the Whisper I cut. I'm not really sure. Only time and more testing will tell.
Also, yesterday was the first tournament I played with this deck due to work scheduling being very stupid. I went 2-1-1 into the top 8. The only reason we drew last round was because neither of us wanted to play the mirror match in fear of to much thinking. :p I did however play against Solidarity in the finals. Xantid Swarm>Solidarity. So I ended up winning which was really cool.
After the tournament, I obviously began to do more testing. I was determined to find the decks weakness, well because it hadn't shown many yet. Guess what I figured out: GRO and Pox>Nausea. Yeah that was bad...
Roop
I REALLY like your drawing base. The inclusion of Night's Whisper is something that I think that more combo decks could use. I too am a bit surprised that Goblins couldn't outrace you, especially game one with life loss still going strong on your own spells.
Good job designing a solid deck!
P.S. How did the deck fair against Belcher? Did their combo protection spells slow you down at all?
\"And then I punched her in the face and stole her glasses.\"
I have not had time to get around to testing the Belcher matchup, but I think this could be due to the fact that noone plays Belcher around here. I would guess that it would be around 50/50 match-up. This would probably be the one deck that can abuse Helm just as much as my deck.
On the point of the Goblin match-up, everytime that I felt threatened against them I would just go off. Every time. The turn before they would win the game, I won the game. There is no reason to push for a the first turn against this deck, becasue they have no real threats until turn 3.
Thats all for now, and everyone keep up the testing, I believe with time hopefully people will start to backup my claims on this deck.
Roop
Hmmm... What about UW Fish with Meddling Mage main? I have a real bad feeling about that one. So many cheap or free counters will be a problem. Plus Mage naming Tendrils means that they only have to counter a single Truth.
I have been testing this deck for about two weeks and by no means have I become good at playing the deck but I am concerned iwth its consitancy. I would say about 40% of the time I am fizzling, way more than I would like to admit. I knwo I shuffle well and I would like to think I am making the correct decisions. Any advice or keys to playing the deck well?
Also, in October when teh starter level and portal set sbecome leagal, is their merit in exploring personal and grim tutor?
I'm really not sure what you are doing wrong. I mean there is a given number of fizzles you will have out of 10 games, which averages around 2-3, but not 4. There are some pretty rough descisions while going through you go off turn, but the way i figured it out was when I was faced with a descision I did one choice see if that worked then went back and did the other to see if that worked better or not. Sooner or later I just picked up what was the correct play in most situations.
There are sometimes where you just gotta follow your gut. Actually my team, the people I test with, thinks I am the luckiest little man in the world because I just follow my gut half the time without actually doing any math, and I'm right more than half the time. So practice and practice will only let you need to practice more. No one is a perfect player and there will always be room for improvement, just keep it up. I'm glad you like the deck.
Roop
I was actually wondering if anyone has been testing Nausea lately. I have given the deck a break after actually losing to SDZ in tournament with the deck...::sigh::
Blue aggro control is a real problem for this deck. They have a fast clock and many small counters that effect the game in a very favorable way for them, I was wondering if any one had suggestions on that matchup. Also, if anyone had ideas on improving the all around resiliency of the deck that would be greatly appreciated.
Roop
I've been playing around with Nausea a bit, and I was thinking of increasing the maindeck protection. I've been testing:
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Spoils of the Vault
-1 Helm of Awakening
+3 Xantid Swarm 1st
+3 Duress 2nd
+3 Defense Grid 3rd
Overall, the maindeck Xantid Swarm's seem to be working well, since all your lands produce G, but they do nothing for a Chalice of the Void for 1. Duress fits well, and is almost as castable as Xantid Swarm. It grabs everything you want to toss, and if you have a decent draw, you can lead off with it easily. The Defense Grid's I tested on a whim, and do well when laid first turn off a City of Traitors, but are incredibly awkward drawn when comboing out.
Overall, I am going to try to run with 3 maindecked Duress, possibly trying to squeeze in the 4th.
I agree that Duress needs to find itself into the main, but I do not agree with cutting Helm or Spoils. Maybe cutting a Helm, but never a Spoils. The card makes things go more than you might think. I don't like Night's Whisper, but you can't cut it for something like Duress, because the slot needs to be there doing something that makes the deck go, not stopping your opponent from going.
It's an enigma to me what should be cut, but I don't agree with cutting a Spoils or a Helm.
Roop
I know this is "illegal", but IBA does it all the time and I want to be just like him when I grow up!!!
I wanted to know everyones opinions on Savior's card drawing spells. There is Ideas Unbound and Pain's Reward. Both cards would take the place of Whisper and Spoils respectively.
Unbound draws 1 more card than Whisper, but it cost double blue, which has been a problem and hasn't been a problem, it depends on your hand.
When casting Spoils, you will find yourself Spoilsing for a Meditate anyways. So why not just run Reward? I mean you can even trick you opponent into bidding enough life for you to kill him with a lethal Tendrils that wasn't lethal before. MWAHAHAHA! Now we play games with your head. Maybe the deck will live up to its shitty name.
Roop
P.S. IBA you are an idiot if you thought I was being serious about me wanting to be like you. Actually, even if you didn't think so, your still an idiot.
Hmmm... I have found myself Spoils-ing for Tendrils often, so I am unsure about replacing Spoils with Pain's Reward.
But I do think that Ideas Unbound should find its way into this deck. Does that mean we have to overhaul the manabase? Probably, but I have a gut feeling that it might be worth it.
I dislike Land Grant. I often just want to replace them with a few lands. On turn 1 they are usually a liability for deck packing counters or Cabal Therapy. Also they force you to play Green duals for no reason. I would rather strentghen the manabase by including on color duals as well as more basics. Especially if Ideas Unbound gets worked in. I like Pains reward in this deck. It does exactly what you want it to most of the time.
A good friend of mine once said:
>Pron w/sound FTW... Actually, Porn FTW. Yep. Fixed.
I really feel the deck should abuse LED. Generating that much mana for 0 should be abusable by a deck like this. I think the deck also needs more draw, Ideas Unbound and Pain's Reward seem like they should both go in. In addition maybe the Land Grant engine isn't the best since it doesn't let you run Underground sea which this deck seems like its begging for.
With reference to Pain's Reward, I'm curious how players would use it. I don't mean "when" as much as "how would you bid?"
As the player you're trying to keep the bidding between Skeletal Scrying and Infernal Contract (otherwise you'd just be using one of those or sticking with Meditate).
I mean, any way you look at it your opponent is simply paying life, with no tempo loss, for 4 cards. I suppose you can look at it from that perspective a few different ways: If they realize the value of the cards then they'll pay huge and if not then you'll get off with a bargain.
So here's a few questions:
-What will be the average life loss the player or opponent?
-How much should be the average life loss in order to be good?
-How much will a good player bid compared to a scrub?
-What is the most one would pay?
-Would Reward be a strict replacement for Spoils (considering that you can follow a lost bidding with a spoils for the win)
(Under Helm of Awakening the situation will be pretty different so I'm just reffering to regular hard-cast Reward)
These questions are very situational.
Let's take a look at a few things first.
The lethal count is is 9 spells + Tendrils. Most of the decks runs fetch of some kind, assume they use 2 fetchs, that lowers it down to 8 pells + Tendrils. I believe you would start the bid at 3 life, (3 mana + 3 life = 4 cards, strickly better than Night's Whisper, especially under Helm, let's not look at Helm for now.) and then you bid accordingly to your hand, just keep topping odd number of life points, so that the opponent is forced to lose even number of life points, (every 2 life = one whole spell not needed for the storm.) I believe the combo player should normally bid below 6 and tries to get the other guy to bid 6, shaving off a whole 3 spells off the storm stack, simply because this deck has close to 90% combo rate if only 6 spells are needed before Tendrils.
Nothing witty to say.
Thats a good analysis. I was thinking 4 life for 4 cards, but I like the idea of shaving 3 spells of the the storm count. Of course, if you got them to bid 6, would you still try to beat that to get the cards, seeing how giving them 4 cards could screw you?
Well, I think once you reach that 6 life mark, (by their bid), if you really wanted the draw, then of course it's okay to bid more, but as you bid more and more, it becomes an Infernal Contract, whether or not that's really worth the investments, that's purely depends on your hand.
Upon further examination, even my own analysis is wrong. The Reward will often be casted in the turn that you try to combo, so it in itself is a copy, by playing Reward and have your opponent bid 6 or more life, (by even number intervals), you shave off the 4 copies of storm with 2B and a card. Now you only need 5 spells + Tendrils, during comboing, multiple Rewards will probably guarentee a win. Then again, these are all very theoratically assumptions and projections at this point, what to take out for these cards and how many each will have to be throughly tested.
Nothing witty to say.
I would say keep bidding untill at least 10 life because if u draw 4 and play 4 spells for storm thats 8 damage anyway and then it prevents the from drawing an answer off the 4 cards. And then great if a noobie wants to pat ten life the u auto win.
ps. start the bidding at 1 kepping them on the even side and maybe getting the 4 cards really chep. :)
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