Thanks for the quick response guys, very helpful!
I'm looking towards the more midrangy build until i can afford to buy somw goyfs as i need the missing duals (tropical islands) first.
What about Grim Flayer? Could he be a possible replacement for Goyf until i get them? I know most lists are only running 4-6 sorceries but he's ability is no joke. I would not run the full playset but maybe 1-2 to have a cmc 2 thread.
So something like this:
4 Delver
4 DRS
2 Snapcaster
2 Grim Flayer
1-2 TNN
1 Gurmag
Or otherwise just stay with Jarvis build. Really looking forward to proxy 4c delver because i've never seen such a list in action. Seems like Austria's meta is a whole lot different then the german one.
greetings
Short answer, no. Before considering something like Grim Flayer just play Gurmag Angler instead. Heīs way better.Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel
If you cant afford the Goyfs just start with the Friedmann list, itīs fine.
Currently playingEldrazi
Quick rundown of matches from SCG Baltimore:
R1: Win versus UR Delver
R2: Win versus Legend Miracles
R3: Loss versus Junk Maverick
R4: Win versus Shardless
R5: Loss versus Junk Nic Fit
R6: Win versus Jund
R7: Win versus Miracles
R8: Win versus G/R Lands (Dave Long)
R9: Win versus D+T
R10: Win versus Grixis Pyromancer Delver
R11: Loss versus Mentor Miracles (Philip Braverman)
R12: Win versus D+T
R13: Loss versus Eldrazi Stompy
R14: Win versus Black-Red Goryo's Vengeance (with Griselbrand and Borbrymos Enraged)
R15: Win versus W/R Eldrazi Taxes stompy
I played a slightly different list (accounting for the uptick in D+T) (two sulfur elementals, and a forked bolt) (cutting a dismember and a painful truths).
I played a list very similar to the Jarvis Yu / Ben Friedman version to a 2nd place finish yesterday at a GPT / Staples tourney. The main difference was a maindeck Leovold, which was insane in most matches day. 12/10 would play firmly.
R1: 2-1 against Manaless Dredge. Lost die roll, was put on the play G1.
R2: 0-2 against Blood Moon Stompy (Bad Standard Rares version). Lost die roll.
R3: 2-1 win against Ben Friedman's original 4c list (with Goyfs). Won die roll.
R4: 2-1 win against Predict Miracles. Lost die roll.
R5: 2-0 win against Jeskai Countertop Stoneblade. Won die roll.
R6: ID
I was 6th seed going into top 8.
QF: 2-0 win against DnT. On the draw from seeding.
SF: 2-0 win against Goblins. On the play from seeding.
Finals: 0-2 loss against Omnitell. On the draw from seeding. This is a good matchup, and I usually win it, but it was not in the cards for yesterday.
I played the following list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Spell Pierce
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Dismember
2 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Hydroblast
1 Painful Truths
1 Kolaghan's Command
Gratz, great finish! Any changes or impressions you have to share with us? How about your 3 pierces MD?
Currently playing
I like the 3 Pierces. With the 3 Decays and 4 Bolts, and the Snaps, it gives you the tools and flexibility to fight any matchup. It's one of the things that Ben Friedman put in his original list, kept it as such, and I think it's right. I know some people want to play a Counterspell in place of one of the Pierces, but the deck is already a little on the clunky side.Any changes or impressions you have to share with us? How about your 3 pierces MD
The only thing I'm not sure on is the Hydroblast. The idea was to help against Burn, UR Delver, and Blood Moons (3 bad matchups), while still being a live sideboard card against Sneak Show, Goblins, Lands, etc. However, one Hydroblast does not guarantee it will be in your opener against the T1 Blood Moon. Maybe this slot can be used in a more productive way.
Hey Jarvis, what is you boardingplan against Eldrazi? I'm curious because i dont know which cards i wanna board out, would be great if you can help me :D
I've been running Grixis Delver for a while, but I ran into the Jarvis Yu / Friedman 4c Delver last week and I'm in love with it.
Two questions for those of you running that version:
- Aren't you dead to Eldrazi in the main board? (unless you race them). No Pyromancer to throw blockers and no Dismember means you can't deal with most of the big attackers, right?
- 3 Spell Pierces main seems it could be a dead card in many matchups. Has anyone experimented turning one of them into a Spell Snare? It's still pitchable, but it's probably live in lots of matchups.
Can't wait to sleeve this up this weekend for a tournament in LA! I might even try the Leovold version.
What's the advantage of a Sulfur Elemental over Dread of Night? Is it the body it comes up with, or is it the ability to flash it in that is the deciding factor? Because on paper Dread of Night looks much better (cheaper and likely stays around for the whole game).
A few factors:
1: Split Second means that you can play it as a combat trick (or whenever is most opportune), and they can't react until it's too late. Compare this to Dread of Night, which you're forced to play at Sorcery speed. With all of the new tricks that DnT has now, being able to play it at Split Second speed is a big deal.
2. The 3/2 body is relevant. It's a real clock, and lets you close out games while the DnT player is stumbling. Also note, in this matchup, you're often The Beatdown. Your goal is to make them stumble, and then get them dead before they can recover.
3. Swords to Plowshares is going to be a live card against you anyway. It's better to stretch their StPs (by providing too many necessary targets) than to attempt to make them dead cards, which generally won't happen.
4. Sulfur Elemental is good against Miracles as well; Dread of Night is not. A 3/2 Split Second that shuts down Mentor is a fantastic threat. Dread of Night doesn't provide this sort of clock, and opens you up to 2-for-1s by Wear//Tearing it and your Pithing Needle together.
TNN and Gurmag can deal with some of the big beaters, but honestly, you just try to go under them G1. The Abrupt Decays allow you to destroy Chalice, and if you Waste their Cavern, that means you can save your FoWs and Dazes for the Smashers and TKS while you clock them out.
Good luck at Knight Ware! I'm not going to be free this weekend (hence my playing Fire and Dice last weekend), but I'm glad the deck will be repped.
MTGO: Maxtortion
Thanks! By the way, can you tell us more how Leovold worked out for you? The more I think about it, the more it seems a win-more card. Did you ever feel that Leovold turned the game around for you? I can see a Snapcaster definitely turning the game around, which is why I'm hesitating to take it out (that and the extra taxing on the mana requirements).
When you play it, you've effectively Spirit of the Labyrinth'd your opponent (with no downside for yourself). Also, keep in mind that Leovold doesn't just draw a card when he's targeted by a spell. It's any spell or ability that your opponent controls that targets you or any permanent you control. Think about Legacy interactions. If your opponent is doing something other than casting a spell that will become a permanent, you're either shutting it down outright or drawing cards. In a deck where a good portion of your gameplan is to cause your opponent to stumble, Leovold synergizes extremely well.
In the Delver mirror, my opponent Bolted it, I drew a card, then I Forced the Bolt. My opponent could not Brainstorm or Ponder into additional removal (or anything), so I ran away with the game.
Against Miracles, right after the first Terminus, I played it a with Deathrite Shaman. My opponent couldn't Jace, Brainstorm, Ponder, or Predict until he found a second Terminus. At that point, it was too late.
Against DnT, after slamming it on Turn 2, I was free to develop my mana uninhibited by Ports or Wastelands, lest my opponent just give me tons of cards. Even if they Karakas him, which is the best thing they can do, you still draw a card.
Against combo, if you play it early enough, you shut off all of their cantrips, meaning they'd better "have it" now or they just lose. Any dicard effects against you draw you a card. Against Tendrils, you draw 10 cards when they Tendrils you. In postboard games, this generally means you draw into Flusterstorm.
Snapcaster + Ponder is a great 3 mana play. Leovold is so much sweeter.
That said Leovold was completely dead against Manaless Dredge and Blood Moon Stompy. In every other match that day, he was great. He's an extremely powerful one-sided hatebear(hate-ogre?) that a Delver deck can cohesively run.
As far as mana requirements go, think of it as closer to 1BG. You're always going to have Blue. Granted, you can't cast him off of Wasteland, but that hasn't been a big deal in my experience.
What aspects of him seem win-more?
MTGO: Maxtortion
Gonna have a tournament this sunday, and still have not decided which list to sleeve up...
Lately goyf has been a bit of a disappointing in many matchup, but dark confidant was never dead (yes, I still play that list), yet I can't decide whichever list could perform better.
that's the list.
2 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
SB: 2 Invasive Surgery
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Painful Truths
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pithing Needle or 1 needle/1 rod
SB: 2 Dismember
Thoughtseize were moved over main deck since the actual sorcery count (4 ponder) is often way too low with a goyf build, that's a true limit I'm seeing nowaday for goyf being underwelming, it's often a 3/4 at best.
I had little impact with this configuration through my last session though, bob was alwasy a good card to have, two discard, seems always to pop out after sideboard games, but never in g1, very odd because I still belive it may be a strong card overral even for the main deck.
I saw tough that someone else came up with maybe (maybe) a better set up, like:
Painful Truth in the main deck replacing Confidant, (adding up the sorcery count) no thuoghtseize but extra snapcaster mage/pierce. (that's Tomas Mar btw, list can be found here)
really thorn in what to play because while Jarvis' list sounds appealing, I still fear that both snappy and nemesis are heavy to run, I goldfished that a little and I had that impression.
Well, casting something that costs 3 mana already means you're on a good position :-) But part of that is my perception from pure Grixis Delver and running 18 lands perhaps.
The situations you mention are awesome, but if you're facing down threats already on the board, Leovold won't do much other than throw himself in front of them. That's mostly what I meant by him being a win-more card. But that's what Delver decks are about anyway: put a threat on the board, make it stick, and run it to the end. So in that regard he does seem to fit in quite well.
All right, I'll give him a try on Sunday. I'll just have to be super-vigilant about triggers!
I'm switching over to this version from grixis delver. The past events I've played young pyro was just wasted space in my decks. (Heavy combo meta) and I've never liked him or mentor, I don't want to feel like I have to get value out of them I want a creature that stands on its own like gurmag and true name. I feel like the MD pierces will be amazing in my meta. I also look forward to picking up a leovold for testing, but I might go with notion thief for now.
Another good finish of Friedmans Deck:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...=OH&country=US
It looks like this become the real deal, very interesting. I hope Yarvis will post a few lines here again :)
different sideboard though.
Isn't there any sideboard guide for the Ben Friendman list?
Sideboard is functionally quite similar to the stock SB.
Dismember -> D. Edict (good vs Marit Lage, but slower vs Eldrazi)
1x Painful Truths -> Sylvan Library (quite similar, but I dont like it as the spell count is already too low after SB)
1x Flusterstorm -> K. Command (deck is indeed already good vs combo and control, so this is also plausible)
Indeed, I wanted to know a little more about how to side in/side out :)
Few guidelines to give you an idea. The in/out numbers are not synced as I figure them out on the spot..
Miracles
---
Out:
2-4 L.Bolt
0-2 Wasteland
2-4 Daze
In:
2 P.Needle
2 P.Truths
2 Flusterstorm
Delvers
---
Out:
2-4 FoW
2-4 Daze (play/draw)
In:
2 Flusterstorm
2 Dismember
2 Umezawa's Jitte
D&T
---
Out:
4 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
1 FoW
In:
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Dismember
2 P.Needle
2 Thoughseize
Combo
---
Out:
3 A.Decay
2 TNN
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Underground Sea
0-4 L.Bolt (trim this last)
In:
3 Surgical E.
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
2 P.Needle?
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