[Deck] bUrg Tempo

[blablub]

Congrats :)

I'm very happy with that deck too but i still need something to turn that Eldrazi MU into a favourite one. Do you feel the same or is it just me who is too stupid to win against them? :D

[jarvisyu]

Congrats :)

I'm very happy with that deck too but i still need something to turn that Eldrazi MU into a favourite one. Do you feel the same or is it just me who is too stupid to win against them? :D

I would consider it a very close matchup // dieroll dependent.

[Manipulato]

Congrats :)

I'm very happy with that deck too but i still need something to turn that Eldrazi MU into a favourite one. Do you feel the same or is it just me who is too stupid to win against them? :D

I had really good results vs Eldrazi with my 4 Goyf list but I never played the MU with the Friedmann list but I think it becomes more difficult. Cutting 2 Angler and 1 SCM to add 3 Tarmogoyf would probably improve the MU a bit but you give up the more stable manabase and are more vulnerable to AD then...
If you want to improve the friedmann list I would advice you to play 2 Diabolic Edict in the SB, it also improves the Lands MU for example. Edict into SCM flashback Edict seems strong vs them...

[Baum]

That's basically what I did. When I tested the Friedman List, I really struggled against Eldrazi because Angler is way too slow to stem their early aggression. After swapping 2 Angler and 1 SCM for 3 Goyfs, the Matchup felt way better. It might be correct to play 3 SCM / 2 Goyfs though. I wouldn't go higher than 3 Goyfs.
I should say that I only managed to test on XMage so far. Since a lot of players over there also just test decks and aren't experienced, the results should be taken with a grain of salt...

I also took out the 3rd Usea and added another Trop. It feels fine so far, but I guess I might run into problems against Death & Taxes, when I want to side in 2 Edicts, 2 Thoughtseize and 1 Painful Truths as additional black cards.

Regarding the vulnerability to Decay: Does it really matter? I mean, Delver and DRS are lightning rods for opposing Decays anyway. I'd rather overload the card if I can't blank it completely.

One problem I expect to run into with the Goyf build is the Goyf size against Angler decks. Without Baleful Strix, it might be difficult to get the Goyf to 5/6 to trump opposing 5/5s. Right now, I'm running two Jittes in my SB, so that might fix the issue.

The current sideboard:

3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Painful Truths
1 Sulfur Elemental

[Manipulato]

That's basically what I did. When I tested the Friedman List, I really struggled against Eldrazi because Angler is way too slow to stem their early aggression. After swapping 2 Angler and 1 SCM for 3 Goyfs, the Matchup felt way better. It might be correct to play 3 SCM / 2 Goyfs though. I wouldn't go higher than 3 Goyfs.
I should say that I only managed to test on XMage so far. Since a lot of players over there also just test decks and aren't experienced, the results should be taken with a grain of salt...

I also took out the 3rd Usea and added another Trop. It feels fine so far, but I guess I might run into problems against Death & Taxes, when I want to side in 2 Edicts, 2 Thoughtseize and 1 Painful Truths as additional black cards.

Regarding the vulnerability to Decay: Does it really matter? I mean, Delver and DRS are lightning rods for opposing Decays anyway. I'd rather overload the card if I can't blank it completely.

One problem I expect to run into with the Goyf build is the Goyf size against Angler decks. Without Baleful Strix, it might be difficult to get the Goyf to 5/6 to trump opposing 5/5s. Right now, I'm running two Jittes in my SB, so that might fix the issue.

The current sideboard:

3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Painful Truths
1 Sulfur Elemental

Yeah I recognized the same. You don't get the Goyf bigger than 4/5 in Delver MU's (Exept they have a Strix in the GY but even than they can delve it away or eat it with DS) so the opposing Anglers trump your goyfs. It's the reason I played 2 Dismember or 1 Dismember 1 Murderous Cut in the SB. The sorcery count without any TS is also very low with only 4 Ponder.

I agree on the AD argument for the most part but sometimes you just have 2 Goyfs dying to the opposing AD's and your out of gas, Anglers just trump this scenario, just a Bonus.

I think your boarding vs DnT is wrong by the way. You should just bring in these cards out of your SB:

2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sulfur Elemental

Everything else is too cute vs them especially the Painful Truths...

The biggest advantage for me of the Friedmann list is the more stable manabase, 2 SCM are enough for me.

[AfroSmile]

I bring the Friedmann deck to a 67 players tournament in Switzerland.
I finished 10th with 5-2 loosing too 4c Control and Infect.

I usually playing big bUrg Delver (4 goyf + 2 Gurmag) version of the deck. I confirm the Manipulato statements!

Yeah I recognized the same. You don't get the Goyf bigger than 4/5 in Delver MU's (Exept they have a Strix in the GY but even than they can delve it away or eat it with DS) so the opposing Anglers trump your goyfs. It's the reason I played 2 Dismember or 1 Dismember 1 Murderous Cut in the SB. The sorcery count without any TS is also very low with only 4 Ponder.

That is the reason, when I play Tarmogoyf, i play at least 2 Thoughseize and sideboard strix. In this way, Goyf is at least 4/5 and often 5/6.

I agree on the AD argument for the most part but sometimes you just have 2 Goyfs dying to the opposing AD's and your out of gas, Anglers just trump this scenario, just a Bonus.

I think it depends on the meta. In Switzerland, there is a lot of Decay deck, so goyf is a no go in this version.

The biggest advantage for me of the Friedmann list is the more stable manabase, 2 SCM are enough for me.

I feel too! I think it is one of the most stable version of 4c delver.

[Manipulato]

I bring the Friedmann deck to a 67 players tournament in Switzerland.
I finished 10th with 5-2 loosing too 4c Control and Infect.

I usually playing big bUrg Delver (4 goyf + 2 Gurmag) version of the deck. I confirm the Manipulato statements!


That is the reason, when I play Tarmogoyf, i play at least 2 Thoughseize and sideboard strix. In this way, Goyf is at least 4/5 and often 5/6.


I think it depends on the meta. In Switzerland, there is a lot of Decay deck, so goyf is a no go in this version.


I feel too! I think it is one of the most stable version of 4c delver.

Hi Afrosmile,
gratz on the good finish!

Yeah the Friedmann version has definitely the best manabase available for a truly 4c deck, one thing I love about this version. The only Thing I dont like about this list is the antisynery between the 3 SCM and the 2 Angler but just replacing them with 3 Goyf is also not what I want atm I think because of the more unstable manabase and the low count of sorcery´s...I hvae also lots of AD decks in my area and Angler is just better there...

Any changes you would make after the tournament? How looks your SB?

Best of luck from me for the MKM Series in Prague this weekend! Keep on bUrg´in

[crush]

Regarding the mana base, I remember that the last time I played this list I boarded out everything red (4 L.Bolt + 2 Volc.Island) against every blue control deck (and possibly combo).

After sideboarding I usually ended up with max 2 bolts vs combo & control. So I took out the last two bolts and volcanics. Worked out pretty well.

[theMonster]

I've been testing a singleton Leovold, Emissary of Trest in place of the third Snapcaster. So far results have been mixed.

Things he's done in my games:

- Rotted in hand due to being uncastable
- Been pitched to FoW
- Been immediately Decayed, netting a 2-for-1
- Stopped my opponent from Jace-storming, forcing him to either +2 (which drew me a card) or bounce Leovold (which drew me a card). So I netted four or five cards off the exchange before it got killed.
- Drawn about 15(!) cards against Lands. He had to Maze of Ith it for many turns. When he tried to double-P. Fire it, I drew two cards (one being Surgical), countered the second copy, then Surgical-ed P. Fire. That was probably Leovold at his best.

I haven't drawn him against DnT yet, which is another matchup where I hope he shines. The casting cost is definitely scary, though. Curious to see if anyone has tried him.

[ironclad8690]

Gave this deck a try for a league. Friedman stock list with 2 baleful.

2-3

BUG Delver: 1-2
Dredge: 2-0
Dredge: 2-1
Miracles: 1-2
Eldrazi: 0-2

It was hard to get enough mana to be able to flash stuff back with snapcaster very often. Could have been variance though.

[AfroSmile]

Hi Afrosmile,
gratz on the good finish!

Yeah the Friedmann version has definitely the best manabase available for a truly 4c deck, one thing I love about this version. The only Thing I dont like about this list is the antisynery between the 3 SCM and the 2 Angler but just replacing them with 3 Goyf is also not what I want atm I think because of the more unstable manabase and the low count of sorcery´s...I hvae also lots of AD decks in my area and Angler is just better there...

Any changes you would make after the tournament? How looks your SB?

Best of luck from me for the MKM Series in Prague this weekend! Keep on bUrg´in

Thanks! Tommorow is the day for MKM Series Prague. I'm thinking about the change I can bring in the sideboard.
The antisynergy between SCM and Gurmag is quite offen problematic. If we want to really improve the deck, that will be my starting point. Maybe a Snapcaster less can improve the problematic for another draw spell or card advantage spell.

It was the same Sideboard as Jarvis -1 Painful Truth and +1 Kolaghan'à Command. I want to try that card, but I doesn't fit very well. In my tests.

Regarding the mana base, I remember that the last time I played this list I boarded out everything red (4 L.Bolt + 2 Volc.Island) against every blue control deck (and possibly combo).

After sideboarding I usually ended up with max 2 bolts vs combo & control. So I took out the last two bolts and volcanics. Worked out pretty well.

Really? I'm a bit surprised. The Land count isn't to low? I side out quite often decay against some combo deck because bolt can surprised them with a little burst.

I've been testing a singleton Leovold, Emissary of Trest in place of the third Snapcaster. So far results have been mixed.

Things he's done in my games:

- Rotted in hand due to being uncastable
- Been pitched to FoW
- Been immediately Decayed, netting a 2-for-1
- Stopped my opponent from Jace-storming, forcing him to either +2 (which drew me a card) or bounce Leovold (which drew me a card). So I netted four or five cards off the exchange before it got killed.
- Drawn about 15(!) cards against Lands. He had to Maze of Ith it for many turns. When he tried to double-P. Fire it, I drew two cards (one being Surgical), countered the second copy, then Surgical-ed P. Fire. That was probably Leovold at his best.

I haven't drawn him against DnT yet, which is another matchup where I hope he shines. The casting cost is definitely scary, though. Curious to see if anyone has tried him.

I was asking myself if the card fit well in bUrg.
Goyf version? Friedmann Version?

[Manipulato]

Thanks! Tommorow is the day for MKM Series Prague. I'm thinking about the change I can bring in the sideboard.
The antisynergy between SCM and Gurmag is quite offen problematic. If we want to really improve the deck, that will be my starting point. Maybe a Snapcaster less can improve the problematic for another draw spell or card advantage spell.

It was the same Sideboard as Jarvis -1 Painful Truth and +1 Kolaghan'à Command. I want to try that card, but I doesn't fit very well. In my tests.


Really? I'm a bit surprised. The Land count isn't to low? I side out quite often decay against some combo deck because bolt can surprised them with a little burst.


I was asking myself if the card fit well in bUrg.
Goyf version? Friedmann Version?

Hey Elie,
how went your trials for the mainevent? Feedback would be great.

[theMonster]

I was asking myself if the card fit well in bUrg.
Goyf version? Friedmann Version?

Friedman list, yeah. Sleeved him up for FNM last night and drew him in two games.

- game 1, UR Delver. Prevented my opponent from casting the two Brainstorms in his hand. He tried to Bolt Leo, I drew a card, and countered the Bolt. Leo poked for 3, then I cast the maindeck miser's Thoughtseize I'm trying over the third Pierce to take his Reveler. He found a Bolt two turns later, I drew a card, and he died. Pretty good exchange.
- game 2, Jund. Immediately Decayed, So basically a more expensive Strix. <shrug>

I think the upside of Leo is extremely high, seeing as I've drawn 15+ cards with him and stopped many Brainstorms. Plus it presents a real clock and makes us a little less reliant on the graveyard. The cost is real, though.

[AfroSmile]

Hey Elie,
how went your trials for the mainevent? Feedback would be great.

I did only one Trial, because my girlfriend is there and I don't to make her wait for too long.
First Match was against Eldrazi.

Game 1: T1 Deathrite + Daze, T2 Wasteland + Delver, T3 Delver Flip on ponder, play Underground Sea, play Ponder, preparing Wasteland for the next turn... and basically, it was it..
Game 2: He plays Thorn of Ametyst which slow me enough. He played 2 Though Knot Seer and I cannot come back.
Game 3: I keep a 1 land hand, with DRS, BS, Ponder and other cards. I play T1 DRS, he play Thorn. Then I did a miss evaluation by playing Brainstorm and not Ponder. I was too confident, I was sure I'll draw a land. But it wasn't the case and I loose on the spot.

I hope it will be better today and I will be more concentrated to avoid such play.
I'll give you more news later.

[Manipulato]

Ben Friedman just went in 40th place of GP Chiba with his 4c Delver but with a new configuration...

BEN FRIEDMAN'S SULTAI DELVER - 40TH PLACE

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island

Sideboard
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Pithing Needle
1 Painful Truths
2 Umezawa's Jitte

I'm surprised that he changed the manabase, probably because of the 2 Leovold in the 75.

The SB seems more geared to defeat Eldrazi & Sneak Show which are very popular in Japan.
Uping the TS count to 3 is obvious when he cuts the 3rd MD Pierce & the 2 Flusterstorm in the SB.

[Manipulato]

Ben friedman also released a new video about his 4c Delver deck with some new changes.

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/benfri...grixis-delver/

[diablo4488]

Hi guys
My actual sideboard looks like this:

2x Pyroblast
2x Thoughtseize
2x Surgicial Extraction
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Golgari Charm
1x Dread of Night
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
1x Forked Bolt
1x Dismember
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Painful Truths

My meta consists of Delver, Infect, Chalice-Decks, some Combo.
As you can see none of them is really "lategame oriented" and there is not so much Combo around (i think the deck is already strong vs).
So my idea is to cut the 2x Thoughseizes.
How do you guys feel about Life from the Loam? In which matchup you would board in this one? I can imagine its strong vs. mana denial stategies and maybe vs Delver (i don't like the idea to much because of opponents DRS).
What would you put into this 2 free slots?

Regards

[Manipulato]

Hi guys
My actual sideboard looks like this:

2x Pyroblast
2x Thoughtseize
2x Surgicial Extraction
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Golgari Charm
1x Dread of Night
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
1x Forked Bolt
1x Dismember
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Painful Truths

My meta consists of Delver, Infect, Chalice-Decks, some Combo.
As you can see none of them is really "lategame oriented" and there is not so much Combo around (i think the deck is already strong vs).
So my idea is to cut the 2x Thoughseizes.
How do you guys feel about Life from the Loam? In which matchup you would board in this one? I can imagine its strong vs. mana denial stategies and maybe vs Delver (i don't like the idea to much because of opponents DRS).
What would you put into this 2 free slots?

Regards

Hi,
giving you some tips would be more easy if we knew your MD

[diablo4488]

Hi,
giving you some tips would be more easy if we knew your MD

Just click on my signature

[NegatorITA]

Ben friedman also released a new video about his 4c Delver deck with some new changes.

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/benfri...grixis-delver/

good, I've relatively solid on my jund, better to watch and learn how to get better with my 4c too :D

EDIT
I see he upped the land count, I too felt it was "Low" to happily flashback things with snappy all day long...