Of the first five spoiled generals from the new Commander product, Derevi strikes me as the most interesting: partially because I've wanted to build a Bant aggro-control deck for a while but wasn't inspired by any of the available generals; partially because he's easily accessible via his activated ability, and thus will stay on the battlefield longer than most generals; and partially because the Twiddle effect is rather interesting. A lot of talk I've seen about this guy has involved convoluted combos that involve making a bunch of mana and then repeatedly sacrificing and activating Derevi to do...I don't know what, honestly, but I don't think those are really the right approaches. I've been thinking of something more along these lines:
General: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
Mother of Runes
Birds of Paradise
Mikaeus, the Lunarch
Soltari Emissary
Stoneforge Mystic
Pride of the Clouds
Rootwater Thief
Frontier Guide
Bloom Tender
Scavenging Ooze
Fauna Shaman
Aven Mindcensor
Thassa, God of the Sea
Loaming Shaman
Eternal Witness
Soltari Visionary
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Trygon Predator
Emeria Angel
Glen Elendra Archmage
Restoration Angel
Heliod, God of the Sun
Hokori, Dust Drinker
Stoic Angel
Tradewind Rider
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Genesis
Karmic Guide
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Mulldrifter
Consecrated Sphinx
Draining Whelk
Sun Titan
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Winter Orb
Survival of the Fittest
Aura Shards
Opposition
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Light and Shadow
Swiftfoot Boots
Umezawa's Jitte
Bident of Thassa
Absorb
Hinder
Cryptic Command
Mana Drain
Counterspell
Desertion
Force of Will
Wrath of God
Day of Judgment
Supreme Verdict
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Sol Ring
Azorius Signet
Selesnya Signet
Simic Signet
Chromatic Lantern
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
37 lands
There are a couple of things worth noting. First, there's some obvious exclusions, mostly in the non-creature slots: Enlightened Tutor, Chord of Calling and Eladamri's Call, draw spells. The list is actually pretty tight because you want to support a higher number of creatures for Derevi. Second, there's a couple of interesting things I want to preserve. Winter Orb and Hokori both allow you to turn the Twiddles into pseudo-Armageddons, while Stoic Angel locks down blockers and leaves people helpless; Temporal Distortion also seems like a decent candidate here, although I don't know where to fit it in. Heliod is currently the only vigilance-granting effect, but I wouldn't mind more of them just so I can use the Twiddles more offensively. Meloku and Emeria Angel both produce large numbers of evasive tokens to leverage Opposition and Derevi.
The manabase will probably be pretty standard color-fixing stuff, with Gavony Township as utility and possibly a couple of other utility lands as well.
I agree with you that most of the convoluted combos with Derevi are dumb. . I was thinking of building him a lot like this, using little guys to abuse Winter Orb and friends. I haven't got to test the deck, but I think it may be at its best if built like Edric, Spymaster of Trest with lots of one mana evasive guys to trigger Derevi.
Soltari Emissary is a puzzling choice, is it supposed to be something else? Soltari Foot Soldier seems better if nothing else.
Originally Posted by Skeggi
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
The nice thing about being in full Bant as opposed to just GW is that you get access to a lot more token-making cards. I think the blitzy "evasive weenie rush" plan has some merit, but running a lot of small one- and two-mana guys is usually a pretty hefty disadvantage in a format of haymakers.deck and Edric does more to mitigate that than Derevi does. Perhaps if you build the turbo-prison Derevi deck that finds Winter Orb ASAP and then locks everyone out with that plus other Stax effects, but that wasn't quite what I wanted to do here.
I originally drew up a list of about seventy creatures that I could see myself running, then trimmed it down to the current...34, I think? Emissary was originally two dorks, Soltari Monk and Soltari Priest. I decided to merge them into a single two-mana shadow dork for Birthing Pod purposes (which late got cut on my way from from fifty-ish spells). I opted for Emissary over either of the clerics, Soltari Trooper, or Looter il-Kor basically because it could block if I needed that. I'm thinking about changing it back to either the Priest (my meta has a lot of RW) or the Looter.
I've been tinkering with a Derevi build too. A few suggestions in no particular order:
Glare of Subdual is a pseudo second copy of Opposition. It's not as good since it can't tap down lands...but if the idea is to force opponents into some sort of Twiddle lock it's another way to get there.
Cyclonic Rift seems like it could be particularly brutal under a Winter Orb/Hokori lock...especially when you can untap your lands via the combat step to cast it.
I know you haven't really fleshed out the mana base yet, but have you given any thought to the Ravnica block Karoos? I know they're sort of lame in terms of tempo loss, but getting two mana out of your one untapped land per turn can't be all bad, can it? They also have a little synergy with Emeria Angel for whatever that's worth.
Lastly, I've been looking for a home for Aetherling for a while now, and I'm really thinking this deck could be it. The exile ability gets around the various lock pieces by giving it pseudo-vigilance, and you can also use it with Opposition effects for as long as you have open blue mana. On top of that, the unblockable ability nets you a Derevi/Edric/Bident trigger while also setting up a pretty decent clock that's very hard to remove. It can be a little mana intensive under Winter Orb and Hokori...but with just a couple open islands you can set up a real problem for your opponents.
Vigilance creature + stasis
My issue when building this deck was that there are a significant number of cards that are worthwhile to include which forces you to make some really awkward cuts. Glare, for example, didn't make it in because it was worse than Opposition and there was only room for one of that effect. Rift would also be good, except for its steep overload cost. It's possible that the correct way to build an unthemed aggro-control Derevi deck is to actually run a smaller number of creatures and a greater number of token generators, basically resulting in Bant tokens plus some light disruption elements in the form of exhaustion effects and counters/removal. Of the creatures I'm currently running, a great many of them - particularly on the cheaper end of the scale - are not absolutely essential. However, I worry that cutting too many actual creatures for more control cards would leave me chronically creature-light, weakening Derevi and the lock components. The compromise may be to dispense with all but the best non-evasive creatures and then run as many token generators and army-in-a-can cards as I can fit. I'll have to think about it.
The Rav Karoos are pretty much auto-includes for a deck like this.
The big problem with Aetherling is that he Slides instead of blinking, so he's not exactly a better Rhystic Deluge in concert with Opposition/Glare. Being beefy and potentially unblockable is a nice combination though, so it might still be worth it.
I've gone back to the drawing board and come up with this:
Bloom Tender
Looter il-Kor
Scavenging Ooze
Stoneforge Mystic
Pride of the Clouds
Aven Mindcensor
Daxos of Meletis
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Eternal Witness
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Trygon Predator
Academy Rector
Emeria Angel
Glen Elendra Archmage
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Heliod, God of the Sun
Hokori, Dust Drinker
Stoic Angel
Karmic Guide
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Prophet of Kruphix
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Draining Whelk
Sun Titan
Sacred Mesa
Flurry of Wings
Spectral Procession
Beck / Call
Entreat the Angels
Counterspell
Mana Drain
Hinder
Spell Crumple
Cryptic Command
Force of Will
Serra's Blessing
Winter Orb
Aura Shards
Detention Sphere
Coastal Piracy
Opposition
Nature's Will
Rising Waters
Mirari's Wake
Privileged Position
Enlightened Tutor
Eladamri's Call
Sterling Grove
Idyllic Tutor
Chord of Calling
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Unexpected Absence
Dismantling Blow
Umezawa's Jitte
Behemoth Sledge
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Light and Shadow
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
Farseek
Azorius Signet
Selesnya Signet
Simic Signet
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Chromatic Lantern
Gilded Lotus
That's a total of 68 cards. I'd like to run either 35 or 36 lands, which means I need four or five cuts. Any ideas?
I went with an enchantment suite this time because many of the cards I want to run - Nature's Will, Aura Shards, Opposition - are enchantments, so focusing on that a bit seemed worthwhile. There are also a number of token makers to supplement the reduced creature count. It's possible that this is actually too few creatures overall, but I'd have to test it a few times to really nail that down. It's also possible that I need more draw spells, but I have no idea what to cut to expand the draw suite.
Suggestions are welcome.
Last edited by Aggro_zombies; 10-20-2013 at 12:50 AM. Reason: Fucking split cards, man.
Some random thoughts:
Spectral Procession seems kind of loose in this format - I don't think you're that desperate for tokens...especially with Heliod, Mesa, Meloku and all the rest already present and accounted for.
I'm also not all that in love with Draining Whelk because it often forces you to counter "bad" (i.e. not potentially game winning) spells just to have a decently sized dude. Otherwise, you're paying 6 mana for a 3/3 flyer...which isn't all that amazing.
You can probably chop one of the signets too if you need space...probably Selesnya since you have more double and triple blue mana costs than anything.
As for the last cut...that's a pretty tough one. It might be Flurry of Wings? The card is on-theme and will totally get people out of nowhere but it's also pretty situational. Then again, if you can manage to swing 3 or more guys whenever you cast it you've at least got your hands on a Spectral Procession.
These are a step in the wrong direction, but a couple suggestions:
Serra's Blessing is cute, but where's the Meekstone and/or Crackdown to go with it?
What about Hero of Bladehold somewhere in here? She brings her army with her and buffs your team while doing it, and the best part is the tokens stick around for Opposition next turn.
You also might consider Skullclamp over Beck // Call since you're making so many tokens. It's easier for you to tutor and will probably draw more cards over the course of the game.
Last edited by Davran; 10-21-2013 at 12:38 PM.
Hmm.
I agree that Procession might be kind of underwhelming, but it's done good work for me before in various BW Control shells. Granted, those were much more token-focused, so paying three or four mana to get three 1/1 flying bodies made a lot more sense. I could see it being cuttable here, but I'm worried that my creature count might dip too low then - I really need a lot of bodies to use Derevi in a multiplayer setting.
I agree with the logic behind cutting Draining Whelk.
I was thinking of axing Winter Orb as well. I don't know that I need three of that effect and it's far easier for me to tutor for an enchantment or creature than an artifact. Plus, there's a bunch of R/x decks in my meta, so enchantments are slightly more durable than artifacts.
I think it's mostly a toss up between Rising Waters and Orb (Hokori seems best here since he has legs). On one hand, Rising Waters is probably more durable at most tables since folks tend not to run a lot of anti-enchantment cards. On the other, Orb is recoverable with Sun Titan...so even if it does get shattered you'll be able to grab it back. The other thing Orb has going for it is it's mana cost, allowing you to leave an extra couple lands untapped when you cast it.
Come to think of it, would this deck benefit from Tezzeret the Seeker at all? He has enough loyalty to find any of your artifacts the turn you cast him...or you could just untap some mana rocks to help make the Orb lock more one-sided.
Lastly, I was cruising through my box of EDH jank last night and stumbled on Jace's Phantasm, which caused me to think of this deck. It's a cheap flyer with plenty of potential upside - I can't imagine an EDH game where it isn't turned on. Thoughts?
I was digging through a box of random crap and stumbled on Stonybrook Schoolmaster...which seems like it might be useful in this deck, especially in combination with Azami, Lady of Scrolls. With nothing else in play you're netting 3 cards and a 1/1 token every turn, and each Derevi trigger nets another 2 cards and one token. Either half is fine on its own too since you can turn triggers into cards or random bodies...the only downside is that the bodies don't have any evasion to speak of.
You can even go deep with Parallel Lives and/or Doubling Season...but that seems like magical christmas land to me.
Im thinking about building a version similar to your first build that runs a bunch of 2 power creatures and Meekstone along with Glare of Subdual, Opposition, and the land denial cards. Also, between Bident and Edric, you might have enough card draw to take advantage of something like Forbid to lock your opponent completely out of the game.
I finally got around to brewing up my own version of this list. Everyone seems to be taking the Winter Orb prison style route, so I wanted to go for something a little different. After playing the stock pre-con a bunch of times, it was immediately clear that the deck can and will "waste" a bunch of Derevi triggers since they happen in the combat damage step - it's not all that useful to start tapping your opponent's stuff right before they untap, for example. I set out to find things to do with the triggers, and here's what I came up with:
Commander:
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
Creatures:
Coiling Oracle
Pride of the Clouds
Qasali Pridemage
Scavenging Ooze
Snapcaster Mage
Aven Mindcensor
Eternal Witness
Mirror Entity
Stonecloaker
Stonybrook Schoolmaster
Trinket Mage
Trygon Predator
Angel of Finality
Glen Elendra Archmage
Hero of Bladehold
Mystic Snake
Oracle of Mul Daya
Phyrexian Metamorph
Venser, Shaper Savant
Acidic Slime
Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Karmic Guide
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Mulldrifter
Seedborn Muse
Aetherling
Instants:
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Arcane Denial
Cyclonic Rift
Memory's Journey
Momentary Blink
Unexpectedly Absent
Bant Charm
Beast Within
Chord of Calling
Sphinx's Revelation
Voidslime
Fact or Fiction
Reins of Power
Return to Dust
Sorcery:
Explore
Farseek
Nature's Lore
Fabricate
Retribution of the Meek
Day of Judgment
Artifacts:
Meekstone
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Sol Ring
Swiftfoot Boots
Umezawa's Jitte
Behemoth Sledge
Chromatic Lantern
Crystal Shard
Thousand-year Elixir
Gilded Lotus
Enchantments:
Sylvan Library
Detention Sphere
Sacred Mesa
Thassa, God of the Sea
Bident of Thassa
Lands:
12 Fetches/Shocks/Karoos/Buddy Lands
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Alchemist's Refuge
Command Tower
City of Brass
Riptide Laboratory
Seaside Citadel
5 Forest
7 Island
5 Plains
Meekstone is sort of the key card behind my deck concept. All of my creatures dodge it completely, and Derevi can tap down pesky blockers with vigilance or whatever. The other concept revolves around Azami. There's a slight wizard slant to the creature slots, and Stonybrook Schoolmaster creates an engine on his own.
I also considered the following cards, but finding room is difficult:
Reveka, Wizard Savant: This "gem" from Homelands actually interacts quite favorably with Derevi and Thousand-Year Elixir. If I were to slot this in, one of the islands would probably become Minamo, School at Water's Edge for another untap effect. Another point in favor of Reveka is that her errata makes her a wizard for Azami.
Swords of X and Y: Some number of these (Feast and Famine, Fire and Ice, and maybe Light and Shadow) probably belong in a weenie deck like this, but I don't like that their protection is a non-bo with Derevi triggers.
Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile: Similar to Reveka above, this could be used to mow down blockers in the end of combat step (since the blockers will have taken damage and still be considered "blocking"). It's also a little insurance against random token swarms and the stuff that untaps through Meekstone. It might be too cute though...
Captain Sisay: As the number of legendary things in the deck increases, Captain Sisay gets better and better. Time of Need is another option, but it only gets creatures.
Coalition Relic: This might be better than Chromatic Lantern as Derevi can untap it to add more counters.
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