I am going to say that even testing a 1cc spell against a chalice at 1 is shady and deserves a game warning. I know that it is a players own responsibility to ensure their own triggers are occuring but that is just moral gray area between cheating and playing to win. I would hope that everyone who plays this game has the morals to play by the rules and has fun doing so.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Sad times indeed when I am the voice of reason. This is not a Bertoncini situation, where many incidents were documented by multiple players over years of play. We have one unconfirmed act, that it is still not 100% a cheating situation. With no coroboration, save for a few vague comments on being over competitive. Cheating is fucking serious in this game. And so are accusations of such. It is extremely unfair for anyone to catch that label without some significant proof.
Thanks Parcher, this needed to be said.
There are harsher penalties. Your example is textbook cheating:Originally Posted by apple713
He is intentionally missing a trigger to gain an advantage from it, that is cheating plain and simple. He should just let the trigger resolve and just target you with the spell. An investigation should have occurred.Originally Posted by Infraction Procedure Guide
A link to the rest of the IPG for the lazy: http://www.wizards.com/ContentResour...Guide_PDF1.pdf
Matt Bevenour in real life
Pretty obviously cheating and if the same judge came back to the table I would expect a game loss. Allowing the Crop Rotation to resolve is just a wuss move from the judge.
Yeah, that it the part that threw me off. I have both played against, and watched Rudolph play. Would I call him over competitive? No. Would I believe he could have missed the trigger for Chalice on Brainstorm? Then made a joke about it to a judge? Sure. That seems right in line with what I have seen from him. But he is a very deliberate, some would say slow, player. And after missing the Brainstorm, his playing too quickly to allow a response on the Crop again seems not only fishy rules-wise, but out of character.
Of course game loss cause he intentionally didnt pass priority twice. Not so hard?
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So the playerbase of Vintage died because of old age?
Or bratty little kids with rich parents.
Doesn't it come down in this and the other threat that judges are too soft?
If rules were enforced accordingly more often instead of this wishy-washy comfort bullshit, than maybe cheating would be less rampant.
The tournament rule change about missed triggers opened up an entire new can of worms. I'm expecting it to be altered sooner or later since it opens up alot of possibilities to cheat.
Indeed. And on top of that, there was a judge present, a person, tested and verified for competent knowledge of the game, who decided that a simple sanction sufficed. There's no reason to second guess that judge, post an unverified tale of the event in question, and accuse that person, with his name mentioned, of cheating. The chances that this person is an active member of this forum are slim, it's likely that this person is being tarred and feathered atm without even knowing it. THAT is immoral behaviour.
I thought it was pretty common knowledge that he goes by the handle of Rock Lee here.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
Nonsense. There is absolutely no rule in the books against playing into a chalice or counterbalance. For all you know, this guy is filling up his graveyard for a tarmogoyf he intends to cast later. Or he could be building up storm. And even if there is absolutely no other rational explanation than that he speculates on the stupidity/forgetfulness/sloppy play of the opponent, that is absolutely okay in my book. This is no different from the famous 'fear for all legal targets' Profane Command play in that GP top 8 a few years ago. If you can only win the game when your opponent misplays, then speculate on the misplay. A chalice trigger is HIS responsability.
Intentional is up to the judges discretion, but consistently reporting GRVs helps build the case.
This is why if everyone just calmly calls a judge on everything that merits a GRV (assuming competitive REL) these people will get weeded out eventually. If you are just a benign but awful player you'll quickly learn to adapt or you will stop wasting your $20-40 on entry until you do. It's (correct me if I'm wrong but I have some experience with it), GRV, GRV, Game Loss for each after. The judge has the discretion to determine whether missing the trigger was "beneficial".
E.g. round 1 vintage champs I am fucking around with Tangle Wires and other crap and forget my Mana Crypt roll. As I move into my main phase I look at the dice and am pretty certain I missed the roll. A bystander confirms with me that I in fact missed the trigger. I call a judge on myself. It's an easy situation since the possibility of taking damage is clearly to my opponents benefit. The judge using his discretion determines I acted out of stupidity and not malice. My opponent confirms he'd like me to roll for it. I bolt myself and we move on.
If in round 5 I was acting with malice and already had 2 GRVs I'd have to think long and hard about being a cheating piece of dog shit and trying to skip my crypt roll.
There are scores of cheaters at SCGs, there are also scores of people who actually think they can take Wasteland with Vendillion Clique. It's not my job to determine intent. So I just call a judge every time. If I get a few intentional cheaters in the early rounds and discourage them from cheating later then great. If I'm just catching awful / nervous / new players in my wake then oh well. They'll be better off for it.
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