Bertoncini, back in business.

[Gammadoom]

Did Drew ever apologize for his gambling? I remember him denying it, claiming it was just a joke. But keep calling the kettle black bro.

He never apologized for the "keepsies"" in Richmond either. Why would he? He probably doesn't see anything wrong with what he did.

[Griselpuff]

WTF how have there not been consequences for the keepsies thing? That's just absurd.

Did the judges just look it over? I don't understand...

[clavio]

He never apologized for the "keepsies"" in Richmond either. Why would he? He probably doesn't see anything wrong with what he did.

What is this? I tried googling Drew Levin Keepsies and nothing came up. I'd love to hear about it.

[davelin]

What is this? I tried googling Drew Levin Keepsies and nothing came up. I'd love to hear about it.

Something about a sick sealed pooled being kept instead of redistributed. Hopefully someone else has more specifics.

[Gammadoom]

WTF how have there not been consequences for the keepsies thing? That's just absurd.

Did the judges just look it over? I don't understand...

As I said previously, the official statement from Jared Silva is still available in the Facebook group. There's also a copy of the statement from his teammate indicating that he was sorry for affecting the integrity of the tournament and would be donating his winnings to charity.

If you decide to join the group to find the whole story, search for Jarvis instead of Drew. The local players had much more to say about Jarvis, so you'll find more information that way.

[r3dd09]

Since we're talking about other cheaters and DQ's. http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...?Article=20059

[Gammadoom]

WTF how have there not been consequences for the keepsies thing? That's just absurd.

Did the judges just look it over? I don't understand...

It's probably a major hassle to get into that Facebook group, so I've changed my mind and I'm going to copy/paste Jared Silva's official statement on the matter. I am copy/pasting the entirety of this one post that he made to us as a one-time thing as people seem to be interested in the matter.


Jared Sylva Hi everyone, Christopher Hickman added me to the group to try to address the concerns raised here. I've read through the comments here and first I want to thank some of the judges who spoke up for the official protocol. Unfortunately, because of that, I don't have much to add outside of this: at StarCityGames, we strive to put some of the top judges in the world at the head of our events. Kim Warren, head judge of the team sealed event, is very accomplished Level 3 and the Regional Coordinator for the United Kingdom. She has our full confidence and I fully believe that she investigated this incident fully and made her decision based on all of the information that she was able to gather. I also believe that she has more complete information than any of the people who have been questioning the decision and that partial information can be very misleading.

One thing that I can speak to is the official procedures for this type of incident. The decision here is between two infractions: Tournament Error - Failure to Follow Official Announcements and Unsporting Conduct - Cheating. There is a single determining factor in making this decision: whether the Head Judge believes that the failure to exchange pools was due to an error, or was intentional. As has been brought up earlier, if the Head Judge believes that a player has lied to them during the investigation, that can get us to UC - Cheating through a different path. As to the statements regarding the experience of the team in question, it comes into play, but it is not remotely as damning as it has been made out. Team Sealed is a rare format and procedures for it are neither codified nor consistent. If the team believed that it was following the official instructions, they were not cheating, regardless of whether they "knew better."

[phonics]

And that makes it worse... how? No, really, how is it somehow more moral to cheat off camera than on camera?

You mean the "tens of thousands of dollars" (actually only $10,000) that SCG didn't give him because of his suspension?

It doesn't make it worse, it makes it more stupid because basically dug his own grave, though I suppose near the end of it he was too popular to avoid the camera. And in terms of winnings, I wasnt aware that he didnt get the winnings of that invitational or points leader thing they had back then afterwards, but I am pretty sure he kept the power, and the set of power for the previous points contest as well as the completed playsets of standard sets for being at a certain points level, and other tournament winnings on top of that, he got a fair bit of money.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

I was witness to a match between Alex and an L4 judge at GPDC and asked him (the L4) after the match and out of earshot of Alex about whether or not he was actively looking for cheating on Alex's part. To my surprise, he said he wasn't concerned with it in slightest. I'm fairly certain that there's a general opinion in the higher echelons of the judge program that Alex has reformed.

[Malakai]

Look at it this way. There are basically two options, either let him play or ban him forever.

If he continues to play:

1. Any player who knows his history is at a disadvantage even if he doesn't cheat.
2. He may cheat again, and still has all the learned skills required to do so.
3. There is controversey around any results he puts up that damage the integrity of the game and the tournament series he puts said results up at. Example: this thread

If he gets banned forever:

1. Some people complain that this is unjust.
2. There is one less notable professional player.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't feel like tournament Magic is so fledgling that it needs to hang onto every notable player it can get its hands on. It's not as if he was missed while he was gone.

[Kayradis]

I was witness to a match between Alex and an L4 judge at GPDC and asked him (the L4) after the match and out of earshot of Alex about whether or not he was actively looking for cheating on Alex's part. To my surprise, he said he wasn't concerned with it in slightest. I'm fairly certain that there's a general opinion in the higher echelons of the judge program that Alex has reformed.

I don't know why but I always had a bad impression about the French L4 that was there in DC. I went to a couple GP he HJ'd and I always felt like he was an idiot...

[Ellomdian]

I'm fairly certain that there's a general opinion in the higher echelons of the judge program that Alex has reformed.

No offense Darkshine, but considering the Stuff that Goes On L4+ that most L3's don't even know about, unless you are a 4+, I think that's a bit of an over-reach. The DCI is not a parole board deciding if you are reformed - the rare Discretionary Indefinite suspensions have generally involved organizer fraud. Their job is to ensure the integrity of events as a whole, and unless there is someone playing under an active suspension, individual players rarely make waves.

I don't think I would worry about Alex cheating at a large event for a while, mostly because its really hard to take advantage of situations where multiple people are watching you, waiting for you to cheat.

Also -

I don't know why but I always had a bad impression about the French L4 that was there in DC. I went to a couple GP he HJ'd and I always felt like he was an idiot...

I can say quite emphatically that there isn't anyone in the program at the L4+ level who deserves to be called an idiot. I think it's kind of sad when a Head Judge from another language gets a bad rap because (frequently American) players think there is a language barrier that doesn't actually exist. L4+'s are senior judges in the program who have repeatedly demonstrated competence and skill at not only rules knowledge, but community involvement and player interaction. Head Judge rulings at the GP level are RARELY reversed after the event, because they just don't make mistakes that often when they have teams of judges to confer with.

Also, most of them have Toby or Eli on their phones to Txt discussions about policy or rules with :P

[Tammit67]

I can say quite emphatically that there isn't anyone in the program at the L4+ level who deserves to be called an idiot. I think it's kind of sad when a Head Judge from another language gets a bad rap because (frequently American) players think there is a language barrier that doesn't actually exist. L4+'s are senior judges in the program who have repeatedly demonstrated competence and skill at not only rules knowledge, but community involvement and player interaction. Head Judge rulings at the GP level are RARELY reversed after the event, because they just don't make mistakes that often when they have teams of judges to confer with.

Also, most of them have Toby or Eli on their phones to Txt discussions about policy or rules with :P

Yeah that guy is quite good

[Russian Alara]

Here is my view ( note I am friends with Alex and Drew) : Even though Alex never admitted his guilt publicly , I can confirm in numerous facebook conversations. that he has reformed. He realizes his error and has even instituted a report cheating list in the Winchester Magic group on facebook ( where he plainly states that cheating is not worth it)

About Drew, disliking Alex , a man has his right to opinion.



But I can confirm, Alex is well aware that the whole community is watching him closely and will likely never repeat what he did.

-Onar

[Lord Seth]

I was witness to a match between Alex and an L4 judge at GPDC and asked him (the L4) after the match and out of earshot of Alex about whether or not he was actively looking for cheating on Alex's part. To my surprise, he said he wasn't concerned with it in slightest. I'm fairly certain that there's a general opinion in the higher echelons of the judge program that Alex has reformed.

Or maybe they just figure he's not enough of an idiot to go back to cheating immediately after the ban has dropped and he'll thus be under the most scrutiny.

[ubernostrum]

I was witness to a match between Alex and an L4 judge at GPDC and asked him (the L4) after the match and out of earshot of Alex about whether or not he was actively looking for cheating on Alex's part. To my surprise, he said he wasn't concerned with it in slightest. I'm fairly certain that there's a general opinion in the higher echelons of the judge program that Alex has reformed.

Or... we take the view that running a full-blown cheating investigation on every play a person makes after returning from suspension isn't productive and makes the tournament run long.

Players who serve out their suspensions can return to tournament play afterward. Even players who've been suspended multiple times. They don't get subjected to hit squads of judges watching their every move; they get treated the same as any other player, subject to the same enforcement as any other player, investigated the same as any other player when there's reason to suspect something.

[Kayradis]

I can say quite emphatically that there isn't anyone in the program at the L4+ level who deserves to be called an idiot. I think it's kind of sad when a Head Judge from another language gets a bad rap because (frequently American) players think there is a language barrier that doesn't actually exist. L4+'s are senior judges in the program who have repeatedly demonstrated competence and skill at not only rules knowledge, but community involvement and player interaction. Head Judge rulings at the GP level are RARELY reversed after the event, because they just don't make mistakes that often when they have teams of judges to confer with.

Sorry for the late answer on that one.
Language barrier is not the factor guiding my opinion. Im fully french/english bilingual.
This is purely my own feeling and the impression he gave me in the multiple event I participated where he was the head judge.
I never said he WAS an idiot. I felt like he was. Feeling and facts are 2 different concept.
Im glad I can clarify that

[Julian23]

Sorry for the late answer on that one.
Language barrier is not the factor guiding my opinion. Im fully french/english bilingual.
This is purely my own feeling and the impression he gave me in the multiple event I participated where he was the head judge.
I never said he WAS an idiot. I felt like he was. Feeling and facts are 2 different concept.
Im glad I can clarify that

To be fair, "idiot" is always a truely subjective and an expression of one's own opinion. Nobody can objectively be classified as such, given that practically nobody uses "idiot" by its original Greek meaning anyways (you'd be surprised by what it actually means.)

By that I mean it's unfair to call somebody an idiot and then playing the "just my opinion"-card without telling us what made him look like an idiot to you.

[Kayradis]

That is a valid point.
I should have voiced my opinion in a different manner.
Just the way he was behaving in the events he HJ where I was present and the way he was looking down on players.

It's mostly a gut feeling. I'd be please to be proven wrong as a matter of fact

[nedleeds]

Look at it this way. There are basically two options, either let him play or ban him forever.

If he continues to play:

1. Any player who knows his history is at a disadvantage even if he doesn't cheat.
2. He may cheat again, and still has all the learned skills required to do so.
3. There is controversey around any results he puts up that damage the integrity of the game and the tournament series he puts said results up at. Example: this thread

If he gets banned forever:

1. Some people complain that this is unjust.
2. There is one less notable professional player.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't feel like tournament Magic is so fledgling that it needs to hang onto every notable player it can get its hands on. It's not as if he was missed while he was gone.

I stated it earlier, but unbanning him only benefits one person. Him. Keeping him banned for life is clearly the better choice. Really what is he notable for? For savagely cheating (hundreds of) of people out of their entry fee to $30-40 competitive REL tourney. There is no compelling reason to ever unban him, actually a lifetime ban might let him actually get on with his life and perhaps see the inside of a gym.